Tiny nerf :D

Classes Mage
82

I main mage and have since DF started. I can tell you how depressing it was to always be bottom of the charts even with perfect rotations. Or how crap it felt trying to get into higher content only to see every other dps easily out dps me overall for the dungeon.

Many did give up on playing it and the numbers back this up.

Many posted repeatedly with zero response from blizz till the recent patch adjustment.

How about you get over it and go look at ways to improve the game and your own prefered class instead of trying to put mages back down to mid to bottom dps.

83

No one said knock mages back down to mid or bottom dps? Lmao.

And because simply:

Continously buffing classes everytime 1 overtakes is a way to create a unhealtgy amount of power creep.

Ur talking one extreme to another. Not balancing. The nerfs didnt whack u down to mid or bot. Your still meta lol.

And improving the game?. Well yah nerfing overpowered speccs IS improving the game for every class :joy::joy:

Imagine how depressing it is now only 3 speccs get taken in a group out of 30+ dps speccs. Thats the litteral game tight now. U either play one of 3 speccs or ur basically redundent in terms of m+ right now.

Litterally the games m+ meta right now has never been so depressing and a major backtrack in terms of quality compared to prior seasons.

84

Never said we did go back down to the bottom, might want to check your asumptions.

Same time there is overnerfing back to the point of why bother when other dps in less gear easily trounce you.

Not particularly helped by naysayers on these forums demanding major nerfs.

If that were true then where were all the nerfs early in DF with various class’s being so stupidly OP they were winning in pvp against 2 to 1 odds.

Except that isnt the literal game right now.

Only people telling themselves this would like to pretend otherwise. Been in quite a few mythic+ since the new patch with pugs and friends and we all give zero cares for making them pure meta runs.

But clearly there are issues with group forming, tanks dont like playing on some affixes, healers dont like playing on other affixes, dps just show up for all affixes then put on surprise pikka face when there is a lack of the 2 cornerstones for most groups.

Btw I am not saying it isnt hard to get into groups, but blaming it on the meta seems a very convenienct scape goat for sour grapes.

Its time they did a proper overhall of the group forming and give people a auto group mythic+ option, no nit picking, no demanding x y and z of the people who sign up, simple automation with perhaps a good reward for taking that chance with complete random groupings.

Leave the old system for those who want to be picky and let those that just want to game game.

85

The Raiderio stats present differently im afraid.

wont work, M+ isnt achievable with “Any combo of classes” espically when getting into higher up keys.

U roll a group with low interupts, or Lack of Dispels in high keys R.I.P ur keys, Not to mention how many will insta quit upon the wrong dungeon coming up lol. Automated queues are toxic poison to the game itself.

If we are talking +15s sure.

If we are talking +20s - +25s its a different story im afraid lol.

Trying to sau it isnt, when there are posts upon posts upon posts, with pictures screenshots and more all saying

Aug / mage / spriest on them. Is pointless lol, its been soo heavily proven this most defintly has become extremely rampent.

86

This from the people pretending manualy picking due to the evil meta is ruining the game?

It is achievable if the automated system takes into account interupts and other requirements, which we both know it could do.

If the current overall class’s cant mix and match to go higher that is a blizzard design issue.

Auto quit when you join such a system could also easily have very negative debuffs added to help with the people only wanting a easy carry.

And your pretending it was not rampent with other setups before any of the recent changes because?

87

Because its never normally to this scale bad, and the likelyhood is they will fix it lol? Where automated queues will kill the game mode beyond repair

It actually wasnt and that is factual im afraid, u can track every seasons class representation in +25s.

And this has been the worse its been in a long time.

Litterallyz every class barring aug shadow and mage are under 1% representation hit season 2 and only 2 classes beneath 5%. Go to season 1 again only 2 classes under 5%.

Meta speccs have normalised around 10% while average classes have been 5-6%.

Now its meta classes are litterally staggeringly high the set up,

But dont worry, ur not alone in this.

Demo warlocks and unholy dks need raid nerfs :joy::joy:. Its not a case of mage being the only guilty party here.

U only have to look at top 20 ruhs in every season, there are disparities in group comps. But not this time. This time its identical comps through and through all the way :joy::joy:

If you cant see theres a problem in this. I dunnonwhat to say. You cant have 3 dps speccs being represented to this scale and argue it shouldnt of been nerfed.

Yes. 1 week in is kinda sad, yes many classes have gotten away with this for far longer, but that doesnt mean it wasnt due. But i imsgine its because of how south m+ timed run leaderboards have gone since 10.1.5 which has likely prompted this to happen so fast.

88

I know you seem to love serenading me with the percentages and numbers here, so perhaps you could also confirm the playerbase % actually fully completing 20+ across the board and higher for season 1 and season 2.

Would be nice to know how such a small percentage of the playerbase is fubaring it for the remaining playerbase in general.

89

But it isnt only the top players now because average players are replicating.

The comp makes m+ so insanely easy, it pretty much garuntees timing +20s, even in pugs. Now yes. This is because of aug evoker and PI.

Mages scale insanely well with these and far better then most other classes do, just as demo warlocks and unholy dks are in raids and will get nerfed because of the same factors fire has been.

So yes, u can blame the support factors of thid comp to why fire mage bit the bullet in nerfs.

But it has to happen

Not balancing dps around support. Is basically the same as asking tanks to be balanced outside groups with healers.

Supportnis being looked at as a offical role and considered, and outliers who scale insanely well with its presence are going to get nerfed. Because ur now having to be balanced around a aug evokers presence.

I would love to know the % of players who have done +20s compared to prior, because i bet irs doubled in all honesty. The games never been this accessible.

And that aint me saying “mage trivalises content”. The obvious reason is aug. Between its defensive and offensive additions, its drop the bar miles in terms of how much dps ur dpsers need to do, aswell as how much healing is required.

Anyone who was doing 70k odd dps prior aug, and werent timing keys without a carry, are now doing 130k dps and replicating the top performers dps from prior augs implementstion. And now able to time keys with 0 need to improve.

Is that nessercarily a bad thing? No. Im sure we all want a higher winrate on pugged kets as it benefits ourselves.

But something needs to be done concerning the absolute drive in this specific comps rampent popularity.

90

Why does such a tiny portion of the wow playerbase get to dictate nerfs to the degree that you will criple certain class’s without having a specific class there to bring them up to normal?

You say average players are replicating, but that is not my experience with recent pugging under 20 with a friend. Def not seeing this holy meta freezing us out of invites sub 20.

The only good argument you are making is to nerf the bejeesus out of support class’s as no one is going to play a class that is utter pants without having a 2nd player there to make them normal if you get your way.

All your doing at that point is swapping one issue for another issue.

91

Head a wee search on this: (https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/what-percent-of-the-wow-community-can-do-20-keys/1559574)

Well if you mean have completed then your answer is here

https://raider.io/mythic-plus-rankings/season-df-1/all/world/leaderboards#role=all:mode=unique:minMythicLevel=20:maxMythicLevel=99

It is indeed under 5 %

92

Just to be clear, with a any class in 442+ witch is a common ilvl now you dont have to be a TOP Player to do 140-150k+ total on any 20+ key. If you can’t perform at least around 135k in such gear, it’s not your class that’s the problem, it’s you and it’s a shame to keep repeating this.
The fact that many people want to force 20+ content who are not able to produce adequate numbers is their own stupidity. They have no minimum self-criticism.
So 150k total is not an outstanding number from a reasonable player. With augment evoker it’s about 200k. If the topic is fire mage and you even get a PI, then of course the number is much higher.
Im palying with MM hunter too, so sad all hunters are dead etc, but still good hunters can do good damage.
But anyway, calm down, you’re commenting with warlock here, a week or two, the many wannabe mages will run out, blizzard will notice that warlock is also overscaled with aug evoker and destro nerfs are also coming. Now everyone focuses on the mage only because every stream is full of it, or rather the priest+aug+fire combo.

93

Problem is a equal mage in the same situation would output 200k while the others put out 150k lol

94

Theyre never gonna do it.

And under that logic none of us would play. As a dps ur still dependent on a healer and tank role in group or raid content.

This is litterally no different to be dependent on a support.

Their not gonna make support useless. Theyre gonna rebalance around it.

But it doesnt does it because mage wasnt only broken in 20+ keys. If ur class requires to be absolutely busted in higher keys to be good in mid range, then theres a serious design fault lol.

And as far as im aware it isnt that way.

95

Man you are talking nonsense. Yes, mage is currently strong, but not as strong as you claim, if there is no PI+Aug evoker. With those two+half dungeon pulls at the first week yes fire was insane, but fire aoe get nerfed.
I’ve played quite a few keys since the new patch, most of them on frost. I’m satisfied with my damage, but I’ll tell you, there are quite a few classes that you still have to compete with if you don’t get booted by a priest and an evoker. But if you get a PI and the evoker buff during a burst, what are you talking about? of course it will show on the damage.
Based on the fact that you saw some streams where they played mage+priest+evoker combo, you can’t say anything.
Don’t forget that destro warlock is also top tier DPS, and will be the next to get the nerfs after the first week’s wannabe mages run out, and more people will also play the warlock+evoker+priest team. The destro warlock AOE has been strong so far, and now with the 2-minute cds it has only gotten stronger, if you get a PI as a warlock, you can dot 4-5 targets with immolate in a few seconds, then you can spam rain of fire etc.

96

Fire mage was the highest raw DPS in m+ after 10.1.5 without pi and aug buff, both of those things extended the lead but the lead was already there.

97

I am aware of what happened in the first week, but here they are still crying after the nerfs. By the way, we are in the SECOND WEEK, and everyone’s problem is the mage.
Why doesn’t it bother anyone that sh priest is an almost unmissable meta pick for all teams in dragonflight, the fire mage also had an op week, but not an op half a year.
It’s really terrible that after being b tier all through dragonflight with all the talents it finally got some care, I think the right step would be to immediately nerf back to tier c so that SH remains the rank 1 class in the game.
And before you come saying that because fire was rank 1 on MDI, I don’t care, it’s not the level of the average person. Before 10.1.5, I saw only one class do 190k+ total, at my level around 20-22, and it was SH priest.

98

Fire’s fine now. I have no qualms with them and do think bliz needs to change dungeon designs to be less reliant on mass dispel and mind soothe. The thread was made in response to the initial nerfs.

Fire was also a strong meta pick last season as well as the start of this one. It’s not like 10.1.5 suddenly made it good.

99

Well yeah we arent talking about post nerf situation. We are talking about if its nerfs to first week mage were justified lol

Yah frost.

I play frost mage, but frost mage is weaker then fire. We know this lol

100

Just wanna add that augvokers give primary, vers and crit buffs. We like primary more than melee but crit is bad for fire and vers is the same for everyone. Fire mage only cares about haste really. Augvokers will probably be buffing different specs when it comes to raiding, they don’t especially complament fire mage.

101

Like to twist things much?

If you take a DPS class that is nerfed and cant do normal DPS without having a 2nd DPS class that augments that class’s DPS back to a reasonable level of DPS, then that is a issue.

So please stop with the unecessary fluff you came up in your own head to pretend anything mage related is in need of any further nerfs. The nerfs that have been done are in my opinion a bit over the top considering how long its taken them to even get to this stage of playability.