Your putting words into my mouth, i never said mage needs further nerfing lol i said the nerfs that happened were justified.
Mage doesnt need nerfing further.
Demo warlock and unholy DK need nerfing now, its our turn on that front as what the speccs are doing in raids isnt acceptable.
Mage is fully able to do reasonable dps without a augevoker. You guys arent even the highest scalers in concerns to aug. Hence why when uve seen the real whacky combos they dont use a mage for them lol.
Mages were just winning regardless of that factor down to the dps potiental it just had itself and yes aug made it worse.
But read logs. Unholy DK and demo are the real winners in terms of scaling with a aug present. And u still wiped the floor with them in m+.
But its fixed now, so no no ones saying anytging about a second nerf lol. The only nerfs i spoke of was demo warlock snd unholy needing to be axed next.
Whos still crying about mage? I dont see any lol.
This discussion aint about mages getting nerfed a second time. Its about the nerfs that have already happened lol. No ones said mages need a second nerf…
People said mage is still meta, which it is. But someones always gonna be meta. That aint crying. Or drmanding a second nerf. People had a issue with how much better mage was then other classes.
I am sorry, but that sounds to be an issue with how you were performing your rotation if it is Frost. We have a frost mage in our raid group who has been playing Frost since the start of DF. He is a consistent top performer, and he is always in the top 5 number-wise. It was the same in M+ as well, and this was before the buffs came in.
It was the same for our Fire mage. He was pushing really good numbers, but gave up on Fire mage in S1 because he said he loathes the gameplay. The maintenance buffs is what made Fire really unappealing to play.
I dusted off my mage early in DF and went with Frost this time. Got him to 430 up until now. I gave a try to do the new mega dungeon with a friend and his guildies. 440+ geared Fury, and while I had problems keeping up with them on AoE (they did not give me time to set up a proper AoE talent setup, so I went with single target) I was keeping up with him on single target, mostly even overcome his damage on bosses. That is with a spec I never play before, so I did not even start optimizing my rotation or anything close to it.
The problem I find with both Fire and Frost is that you are reliant on tank pulls, and for your tank to not be an ape and pull stuff out of your Blizzard/frozen orb. Whenever I am pugging I rarely see tanks who take this into consideration.
How this nerf will end up working out we will have to see, but my general opinion is that a 430 mage keeping up with a 440+ warrior who knows his spec and how to do damage is kind of silly. It means once my mage reaches 440+ I will just crap on his damage simply due to power scaling.
I don’t understand why nerf arcane while Fire is doing over 2M dps in top teams. There are no arcane mages in top teams only fire and frost. Besides complexity wide arcane deserves much higher DPS buff! They simply added a meteor-free proc and turned Fire again into a Flamestrike bot as it was in Shadowlands and many players hated the spamming Flamestrike playstyle…
Besides Fire is only OP with a specific setup where the whole team is playing around your cds and boosting your dps while you spam Flamestrike in a 20+ mobs pulls. Try to put a Fire mage into a random pug with 20 keys and it will do just average.
I think arcane mage in its current form is not designed for m+, that’s why it is not used by the top teams. In my opinion, the punishment is too much if something disturbs, this is the biggest problem. There are quite a lot of things to pay attention to on big keys, especially when they pulling half instaces.
To be honest, arcanee has always been something that I want to play, but somehow they can never make it suitable for all content. But of course that’s just my opinion.
Btw i dont like this flamestrik fire mage either.
I think in terms of random pug for level 20 key Arcane fits very well and its dps does not suffer as much as Fire’s dps if pulls are not big enough. Besides, I think Arcane is good at both AOE and ST, while Fire ST is not that great. Currently, I’m enjoying Arcane in M+. It is much better after the latest patch and changes made to the arcane orb. It feels now like a range Outlaw rogue with “Roll the Bones” and great mobility. AOE became much more stable. ST is good. It is super fun when you get a BINGO and start sending orbs like an unstoppable cannon while your DPS skyrockets You don’t have to make these stupid mana gems anymore and evocation is much faster. Tried Fire and did not like it. Basically, they made Fire a Flamestrike spambot with meteor procs. I don’t find that fun to play. In my opinion, spreading ignite with pyros was a more interesting build. On 5 dummy im doing twice more AOE dps as Arcane than as Fire. For random 20-key pug, you never get a tank that will pull half of the instance for you and a healer that keeps the group alive as they show in top M+ team videos.
Also if by flamestrike spam you mean hardcasting flamestrike, only time I have to do that in a dungeon is to activate skb. You probably don’t have enough haste if your geared for arcane.
Also nothing wrong with fire’s ST, especially if you have TW on pull, you can keep combustion up for ages.
Idk for me still frost is the winer. I like GS, i liked it in BFA too, but this version is much smoother. Frost can preform well, it’s just that we don’t see much at the moment because Fire is overtuned with evoker+priest combo and when every streamer using it then the sheeps will use it also.
Frost is great when you know there will be some smaller pulls or you need to change target on bosses. I love it in NL for splitting glacials on the all the bosses and the pulls are a lot smaller in general because they are so dangerous. I like it in VP too and sometimes Brackenhide for the totem on the last boss. The problem is they like completely opposite stats, all my crafted gear has fire haste/vers now so my frost dmg really suffers.
It’s not true that it’s only good on small pulls, it was very strong on big pulls before the reworks too, and now its stronger. You can start with two orbs and comet storms, then you have to do the same as before, and if there are enough targets you can cast many orbs,
Its better than before thanks to winters blessing +haste means you can use more blizzards and its more CDR on orbs. In aoe Blizzard and Orb is your pror and Comet ofc, you shoud cast glacial too if you have time for it, but if there are enough targets you must have to focus on orb/blizzard more, and do not waste a single sec of CD.
Thing is, frost still really good on any aoe, but now its ‘‘harder’’(need some logic) to execute its rotation perfectly, fire become much easier now, for the many wannabemage meta players, but those who understand frost and have some logic can do really good overall in every situations. +yes good stats are importent, reach near shatter cap+ as much mastery as possible.
Btw Im Deränee just forget to switch character…
I didn’t mean it was bad on aoe, just that 2-3 targets its much much stronger than fire. Frost’s difficulty is perfect now imo, you can pick it up and do good damage but there’s a lot of room to improve with how you manage your icicles and resets/cdrs.
Fire’s difficulty in aoe is managing your gcds and making extremely fast decisions. The apm on fire aoe is insane.
Usually, pug tanks don’t pull 20+ mobs at 20-21 LFG keys, besides I’m still topping dps meters as Arcane. Just did 20 Freehold with 3.2k ret and finished with 190k total dps and he did 180k total. Without SP but with AUG.
Slightly raining on your parade but in a BH the SP will be behind. We can’t hit half the trash in the second area because the flowers eat our shadow crash inputs. Good job though.
It depends a lot on rng of what your shadow crash hits initially / what your tank chooses to pull and how fast he does it. Watching the video now I can see that SP clearly cursing the gods of rng and your tank’s existence.
Arcane is definitely a lot better than many give it credit though.
Different pulls, different world. He’s not comparing himself to them so why’s it matter. Spec does enough damage to time the keys and competes with players of a similar level.
no ones saying anytging about a second nerf lol. The only nerfs i spoke of was demo warlock snd unholy needing to be axed next.
You don’t have to make these stupid mana gems anymore and evocation is much faster. Tried Fire and did not like it. Basically, they made Fire a Flamestrike spambot with meteor procs. I don’t find that fun to play. In my opinion, spreading ignite with pyros was a more interesting build. On 5 dummy im doing twice more AOE dps as Arcane than as Fire. For random 20-key pug, you never get a tank that will pull half of the instance for you and a healer that keeps the group alive as they show in top M+ team videos.
