Tirna - first part of the dungeon

So I am wondering why noone talks about the trash difficulty in the first part of Tirna dungoen. And I am not talking about their smashes, casts, etc (all trash mobs got these), but just pure stats, pure melee damage to tank. Once you enter maze or 3rd part of the dungeon - it just feels like key difficulty dropped by like 5, tank barely gets any damage. But boy oh boy first part - tank needs to use major defensives just to survive natural sized packs (not double-tripple packs - but single).

As a bear tank in +14 Tirna yesterday, during first 3 packs in Tirna - I had to use every single major defensive and still my health at times was suddenly droping to 10-20% through heavy defensives (had to do some heavy kiting). And then once we entered labyrint - key started to feel like it’s +7 and I can just relax and forget my major defensives besides spamming ironfur, my health never dropped below 80% and healer was always full mana chilling (compared to going oom stresfully spamming in the first part)

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Your routes might be weird. When we do mists, there’s only 3 pulls before the first boss, which isn’t too difficult. But yes, that is why most of the trash at the beginning is skipped.

It’s the same 3 pulls that just demolishes tank :slight_smile:l it’s either labyrinth is way to easy, or beggining is very overtuned. As I said, it just feels like 5 keys difference these 2 locations.

Other thing is that your dps might just be weak. When we do mists the mobs barely get to do anything before they’re nuked. But if you’re pugging and not running a high dps comp it’s understandable.

Agreed. First 3 packs are much harder-hitting than what is in the labyrinth. If you wanna hard-mode it, have a fae with you and blast through the first 3 packs WITHOUT inserting the key, and get those mushrooms. Those stats stay on you when you insert the key. Every little bit helps.

You can have any dps, but when I pre-barkskin (30% all dmg reduce + a stack of ironfur which gets me to ~55-60% phys dmg red + 70k HP pool), I pull the pack and after 1s I am at 20% HP from melee swings - smth is really wrong :slight_smile:

Or, it’s not overtuned, and we’re still just in the early days of this expansions M+, and still dont know what to CC ect. so we’re just trying to power through everything … Just an idea

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I agree on your point about learning, etc, though my point was more about the inbalance of difficulty and flow in the dungoen (when in first part you barely live, and in 2nd-3rd part you can remove defensives from keybinds).

And the inbalance might only be there because we dont quite know how to deal with it yet.
What makes the maze dangerous is the heal, where even most pugs have 1 person with enough brain cells to interrupt, and the knockback.
But you also had something like Necrotic week, those mobs in the maze attack extremly fast, so with those affixes, the maze was more dangerous last week of the two.

Or it might also be that it is in general easier, because you also have to deal with the maze it self.
In M+, no one in the group should expect any heals there, because the healer should be busy figuring out which way to go ect. sure, at low levels this isn’t an issue, you have time to spare, so you kill it and then start looking.

The casual m+ guy is already timing m+14 key. We are already passed a point where learning the basics.

Well listen here buddy, our tanks haven’t been complaining even half as much about those packs yet, so there must clearly be something you’re doing differently, no matter how much you insist.

He is right. The first pack after the patrol can one shot if not going in with def cds. Your tanks are maybe doing it or they outgeared the m+ level they play on.

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I just watched one drood (mythic level raider) going in +15 tirna - well he used all his major defensives for 2 first packs combined with healer majors and still he barely went above 40% hp. In the end he had to kite and use hunter binding to get away. After these 2 packs done - it was a complete faceroll and his majors wasn’t even used once (besides barkskin, and incar as offensive cd).
I mean I can just close my eyes and tell healer to heal more, but if I see such huge inbalances - I point them out. Some people just doesn’t care about it and they never speak up. But I do. And I see no reason to discuss this with you, since you don’t read what I or others wrote, you only hate comment. Maybe you will once tank it and will feel what it is about.

Do you have by now an idea by what the high damage is caused?
Also the pack that is always played, just before the night fea entrance(before the boss) is so dangerous on Pull.

Not really, we’re at the point where most people can power through it, people were still learning new things in the dungeons in season 4 of bfa, yet we somehow expect we got tthis down already in shadowlands :thinking:

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I have to agree, that the first trash mobs are just overtuned compared to the rest of the instance. I have personally seen people not even do the fae skip but instead doing first group and use a warlock portal to jump over the wall basically directly to the boss instead. I’m now always bringing a warlock to my mist runs, but that skip can’t be intentional.

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So you are saying you want the first part of the dungeon to be exactly the same as the latter part: not challenging, relaxed, chilling, and not using your defensives?

I think your defensives are designed for situations like that, that is also the reason why their cds are rather short (1-2 mins).

I see many posts from crybabys about leavers in m+ becaus they had horrible experiences. But it seems that even when you had a good and relaxed run with just only 3 challenging packs there is still a need to cry and rant about it on the forums.

Maybe blizz should make the dungeons so easy that you can 3 chest a +18 without every using defensives and give everyone a 100% loot drop at the end. Maybe then the crying and ranting stops?

No, I want it to be balanced - 1st part put more inline with rest of the dungoens, 2nd-3rd part - made a bit harder.
I never even have a thought like that, but I guess you did so you want them nerfed to 3chest 18s?
But a constructive feedback post is considered crying ant ranting, I don’t know you are either trolling or are toxic potato.

I think the point behind those initial packs is that they are meant to be kited. If you’re talking about the 3 packs with the soulcleavers and not including the 2 goliaths before the 1st boss, that is.

You’re right, they do chunk apart HP quite a bit, but that’s why I never stay still during those initial packs. I’ve not touched 14’s, but I can see why it’s incredibly high pressure. Soulcleavers in particular have a buff they use on themselves to up their damage and an ability? that can chunk any tank down to size.

I assume these are the one’s at least. Harvesters on top of them can be easily interrupted.

Just my 2 cents.

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There are mobs applying debuff to tank and heal needs to dispel it fast :smiley:

  • if you pull little mobs they do the same thing
    my advice is to dispel dispel and interupt AND of course KITE them