Titanforging[Carryover from US forums]

Community General Discussion
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Yet another thread where the discussion is leaning towards the upsides/downsides of having Warforging/Titanforging in the game.

Personally, I’m not a huge fan of it. Big surprise right?
Don’t get me wrong, I do see the upsides of having a system like this.
Thanks to this system, your character progression can continue past the level of difficulty you engage in. No matter what type of content you’re into.

But what are the downsides?

I guess this depends a lot on the type of content as well as the level of difficulty you engage in.

  • Leveling

Here there is really only one downside with having quest rewards etc. being able to warforge/titanforge.
And that is Player perception. Argue in whatever way you want but in the end, a large portion of players care deeply about the items they receive. And every time your reward does not live up to the expectations you have, it results in a negative.

Now, regarding the leveling part and specifically for BfA, levels 110-120. I believe the scaling involved with your character with each level you got, and how obvious it was that your character became less and less powerful all the way up to 120. I believe this hurt much more than the actual gear itself that came from the quests you completed.

  • At max level

Again, your experience with warforging/titanforging will generally depend a lot on the type of content as well as level of difficulty you engage in.

The first thing here that comes to mind is that having this system ultimately makes gear less meaningful. Why? Because it, in a lot of ways, takes away the incentive to strive even higher. Personally, I engage in mythic raiding and I do it only for the sake of the challenge. Too see how far I can get.

Anything that, in a way, forces me into repetitive patterns makes this game less enjoyable for me. Now, due to the fact that getting gear in this game is in itself mostly relying on RNG, some repetition is required in order to actually obtain most of what you need for each new tier. But when the level of repetition required is increased by so much just for the sake of this additional gear scaling- system, that’s when it gets a bit out of hand if you ask me.

Thoughts regarding the ways in which gear can upgrade

Take any item that you can obtain in a dungeon/raid for example(part from Azerite armor). In what ways can it become better than the very base version?

  • It can warforge/titanforge. Roll for what item level it gets, which determines it’s general level of power.

  • It can receive a socket/gem slot. Which allows for some further customization.

  • It can drop with certain additional secondary stats/bonuses such as: Avoidance, Leech as well as becoming indestructible(it cannot break, no repair cost).

Regarding warforging/titanforging
I would be satisfied if we saw the item level cap with each raid tier lowered to the base item level of gear dropping from mythic difficulty in raids. While I strongly believe that gear level should be based on difficulty level, I can be okay with gear from other sources being able to scale up to what equals mythic level. But there should NOT be anything above that(until the next raid tier comes out ofc).

Regarding sockets/gem slots
Getting an item with a gem slot is for most classes something very good. A 385-item with a socket is for many classes/specs better than the same item at 395-400 but without said socket. What happened to the statement of: higher ilvl should equal an upgrade?

What I would like to see is that any piece of gear/any item that is not a neck/ring or trinket. Should not be able to receive a gem slot. Necks/rings and trinkets should always have a gem slot where you can put in w/e you want. There should be no RNG behind this part. If for example a pair of boots or bracers can have a socket on them then that should be a guarantee for that particular item no matter the level of difficulty you receive said item in.
As an example: Lets say a pair of boots that could drop from Battle of Dazar’alor, would have slightly more primary stats on them but NO secondary stats. Instead these boots by default have 2 maybe 3 gem slots in which you can choose for yourself what type of gems you want in there depending on preferred secondary stats. I say, why not?

Regarding additional secondary stats(Avoidance, Leech, etc…)
I would be happier if certain item slots for your character and the items going into these slots would have these stats guaranteed, this however is of less significance.

Too those of you who read it all, GJ! I could write more but I’ll leave it here for now.

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This has probably been discussed to death yet Blizzard have said in the Q&As they like the system and it’s here to stay. There are those in favour and those against.

Personally I hate titanforging/warforging. Getting higher gear used to be done by doing harder content. Drops feel disappointing now when they are not titanforged. It feels like Russian roulette when looting a boss.

  • Will I get AP
  • Will I get loot
  • Will I get a piece of loot I need/want
  • Will that loot WF
  • Will that loot TF
  • Will it have a socket
  • Will it have an extra stat
  • Is it an actually an upgrade to what I have (goes off to sim)

I don’t actually care that some super lucky person occasionally gets a TF piece by running LFR. I care that regular loot progression has gone. That getting a base line item feels meh.

24 Likes
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:-1: for Titanforging. Bad, bad system. Rots the basic values of the game.

I’ve said my piece before, but there is no such thing as too much criticism when it comes to Titanforging.

  • Every piece is now a disappointment
  • The feeling of having earned what you have is diminished
  • It damages whatever little sense of fairness is left in the game
  • The sense of loot progression is disrupted

and this coming from someone who barely plays now, who was disillusioned with gear a few months after starting, and who never cared at all about what other people got.

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personally, i think it should stay.

But they have to reduce the chance of warforging and titanforging. It seems like every 4~5 drop equals one.

Make it feel like a legendary gear. That’ll make sure people have an incentive to keep playing, and it won’t make it luck based too much.

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I don’t like it for one reason, when I get a drop and it doesn’t Titanforge or Warforge…I know I got the dreggs of the barrel on loot.

So my enthusiasm for said loot is lower.

Aside from that, I think the cap is too high and gem slots should be base line on gear instead of lucky draw.

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MoP had the perfect WF/TF system

WF= + 5
TF=+10

If you wanted it higher still you could upgrade with VP by an extra 4 lvls .

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Wall of Text INC…

I’m just tired of seeing this everlasting carrot-on-a-stick loot system… this is one of the main reasons why WoW is dying and people burnout and quit the game.

They are trying to please so many “type” of players that they end up pleasing nobody.

Competitive raiders back in the days they use to show off their gear in Stormwind or Shattrath, and back in the BC just by looking at them you felt like you want to be a part of it, motivating more people to organised group content. That’s the SOUL of a MMORPG… High level content = High level reward.

Then you bring the excuse that some people like the game but they don’t have time to organized raiding…sure… And you put LFR and Group Finders in order for them so see the end content with basically 0 effort. (not that i agree with this but ok, let them see the content).

And then you insert this russian roulette loot system that you do a dungeon and you can get a piece of gear with more ilvl than Mythic raiding bosses…seriously??? Ok if you want to bring this system at least put it to work correctly… i don’t mind that socials get a 425 ilvl with socket if "I " as a mythic raider could get that even if i don’t have the luck… maybe with some token/currency that you earn by killing raid bosses that you would be able to upgrade your gear with, similar to MOP upgrades. This way you would establish a goal that you actually feel like it’s achievable. not this nonsense praying to the god’s to get that bis trinket titanforged with socket…
This is the way to reward people that actually invest their time and put the effort to finish the tier.

The way that this system is implemented now, at least for me it feels like the loot progression for higher content is not linear… and even if it drop that item that you need you still feel bad because it isn’t forged…

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I hope to never see that system ever again. I absolutely hated it. I think the system we have today is much better, but if they are gonna nerf it, they should take it completely out. I hate getting warforges, and I hate “upgrade” systems, because that means grinding. I really did not like the MoP system at all.

I do not mind the current system with warforge and titanforging(tho I’d rather have no upgrade than a warforge), and I miss legendaries. I hate Azerite, and a part of the reason is that it can never upgrade, it doesn’t have secondary stats and I generally do not like the trait system.

I do not care enough to give another detailed descripotion of why I think titanforging is one of the best systems we’ve ever had(done it before), but I think it is important to point out that some of us actually think it is great too. Though I think it was better during legion. I’ve barely had any titanforges at all this expansion, but I am getting way too many warforges, and I don’t like those. I’d rather have zero upgrade than a warforge. Warforges feel too weak to have any point being there.

I guess the system will be going, judging by the hate against it on the forums, so yeah… I’m not gonna waste my energy fightining to keep it, but downgrading it will feel like a huge downgrade based on previous years of experience with loot and gearing teams.

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Grind is one of the core essences of MMORPG’s. And God i hated grinding those Shatered Sun dailys in BC, and Sons of Hodir in Wrath and i could keep going for ages with this… the point that i am trying to put out is that with grind sooner or later you will get that piece that you want, or that Exalted rep that you required to unlock the raid and complete the attune… You do not need to pray for a miracle and Grind endlessly for something that you might not even get like this TF/WF system…

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Been there done that. I’ve changed as a player, I’ve stopped seeing gear as a reward, but rather just a tool, and anothr outfit for my wardrobe. Back in vanilla/TBC lack of access to gear could cripple a raid team. Viable recruits were challenging to find, because they could be a tier behind on gear. Your raid team would potentially be running bosses worthless to anyone else on the team just to gear someone up. Today gearing spesififc players can be rewarding for most people on the team due to how the community is beng kept rather close on itemlevel. I find that way more rewarding than the, to me, outdated MMORPG formula of “exclusiveness”. I’m playing for the team effort, not the gear. Gear is nothing more than a tool… and an apperance for my wardrobe.

As for my “hate” for warforge that’s more tied to it feeling worthless, so why have it there? A base piece of loot feels better than a warforge, or at least even.

Edit: Sorry, I see I misread your last post when reading it again. I’ll just keep my reply here anyways.

But yeah, I can see why some don’t like not being able to grind that titanforge. Personally i am not bothered by it, and see high titanforges as nothing but a bonus.

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Maybe it’s just me, but I think TF has a bad influence on guilds like mine.
We may be a casual guild but looking back from WoD to now we struggle with more and more bosses in a new tier unless we are overequipped. Same goes for M+ dungeons. We only manage to clear them in time, when the end reward has to be TF to be an upgrade. Can’t beat a boss/clear a +10 in time? Obviously we are too low from Ilvl instead of trying to improve our gameplay.
This quickly leads to a ridiulous way of playing where TFs are the only upgrades and getting gear feels like it requires much more time.

In Legion TF wasn’t so bad because Legendaries made it very lucrative to run old content and the chance to also get an useful item was pretty neat. In BfA it’s stupid to go into uldir for gear after not even 2 weeks, so that TF only really effects the actual content.

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First of all, I think that if you EXPECT to get TF, you’re just setting yourself up for failure. Don’t expect it.
Second; this is during leveling… Gear you’ll probably ‘grow out of’ very soon. So being disappointed by it in such a way just seems very silly to me.

If you’re so inclined yes. But many, many players are not (me included). I’m fine doing the content I enjoy. I don’t WANT to try harder difficulties because I have no interest in that whatsoever. So for me it only adds to the game, it doesn’t take away.

Sounds fine.

Agreed. I think gem slots should be a craftable profession thing and not an RNG thing as part of a TF.

Imo the secondary stuff isn’t worth so much, so it’s fine the way it is.

Overal; nice post without the usual hyperbole remarks about TF. :ok_hand:t4:

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Not at all actually. Yeah there’s a vocal part of people who hate on the system a lot (mostly higher difficulty raiding people, surprise surprise), but Blizzard knows better. They’ve said it’s not going anywhere. It works. It’s a good system in essence, just with a few tweaks it would make MORE people happy.

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And you know why is hated for higher difficulty raiding players? Due to the impact of the TF/WF have on the fight itself. Example : Having your weapon ilvl 415 flat you simple will not have the same impact/output as DPS/Healer or Tank survivability as if you had 425 on all slots… and to have that i might need to Grind until 2025 because there is no other way on getting them outside the “luck” issue…

Like i mentioned previously, i see no issues in people that don’t have the time to spend in the game get that occasionally 425 out of a mythic dungeon or even LFR. What does botter is the fact that you cannot get them at all even if you farm 24/7 the same boss if your not “lucky enough”.

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Weapons cant TF though.

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Love TF. Because without it i couldnt keep up with the mythic raiders in m+. I can have mythic gear ilvl by grinding m+ and i love it!

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There is no point the discussing it more. It is garbage, very few people like it and Activision will not remove it. We can just wait for Classic and play the actual WoW instead of the Casino of Mountcraft we have now.

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This is what I don’t get… You keep saying Activision is “all in for the profit”, yet you say titanforgining is something the community doesn’t want(“very few like it”). That’s contradicting your own claim. If few liked it, that should mean less profit.

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But that’s just it; you don’t NEED the 425. It makes the fight easier, sure, but is that really the thing you want? Cheesing the fight basically? Or do you want to beat it with the intended gear on the intended difficulty level?

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And unfortunately it is… Sub numbers are massively sinking and this TF/WF RNG for me is another big hole in the DECK. at this rate it won’t take long untill we all have to abandon ship.