Way of takin it out of context. Loving this semi quote. YOu did not work for normal gear you worked for gear.
You did absolutly nothing to receive an mythic/heroic forge gear by killing an LFR boss(Example i don’t know if it’s the case) but working for gear means doing the appropiate stuff. Yes you not killing heroic bosses should not net you the appropiate gear.
The same way raiders can’t get an dungoen trinket if they don’t clear the appropiate mythic + that gives it that’s why i advocate no more TF you get the best trinket in the game after you clear a +15 and choose it in the chest. You worked for it.
So tell me why are you putting words in my mouth? I do believe everyone deserves a sense of accomplishment. When a player finally clears the raid on normal he should be feeling good that he earned NORMAL GEAR not for titanforges and he should be looking to earn Heroic gear.
I believe that anyone going around saying i earned insert 415 ILVL titanforge, while never killing a mythic boss is an entitled brat that did not earn the 415 and got it for FREE. Yes mythic raiders have titanforges and warforges aswell but damn if the majority(my wild guess is more than 80%) would like to not have titanforge ever. We get acces to the highest gear anyway but this WF is breaking up competition by luck inside the raid and is breething players that are lucky and belive because of their Gear they are good,they clearly aren’t.
If after all of this you belive having gear not appropiate to the content you cleared is good than that’s that ,it’s your opinion but at least understand mine not fabricate it.
I do not really care about what people feel about themselves based on ilvl. But I do dislike the added RNG where everyone knows people on the luck-side of the topic and people who just worked their a… off but pulled the shortest stick.
Like I have a player in my guild, the highest ilvl actually of the whole guild, but he only finished 1 or 2 dungeons a week. Yesterday on the chat I mentioned that he has to carry us since he has highest ilvl, where he responded “that would be absurd”. And then it hitted him that he actually is, getting for that 1 dungeon last week a 425 piece and also opening a 420 from the weekly chest.
The TF chance seems so low in BFA that they might as well remove it tbh.
Atleast in my experience. I dont think ive gotten even 10 TF pieces since hitting 120 in the beginning of BFA (all content included).
I kinda liked it in Legion since there was a somwhat decent chance to get a TF piece in lets say a HC run if you were a mythic raider. In BFA the chance seems too miniscule to be worth the trouble tbh.
Some people will still be lucky obviously. But if some of intent with TF is to make older/lower ilvl content relevant like in Legion, then it has surely failed in BFA, so it might as well be removed.
If you bothered to read the thread then you would know that i am against the WF/TF system in it’s current form and am in fact an advocate of reducing or removing all the free high level gear casuals get. As the hardest content i have done is 3 or 4 x LFR bosses i agree it is ridiculous that i have 6 toons around 375 ilevel. As for putting words into your mouth it was YOU that chose to reply to MY reply to some nab belittling others because he does content with different pixels. If you were agreeing with his comments then i certainly did NOT put words into your mouth. If you were simply arguing the case against all this crazy free high level loot that gets thrown about then you shouldn’t have taken my reply to Mr Super pants out of context.
An opinion you’re ofc free to have. We all have different wants and wishes when it comes to gameplay. No matter what part we’re talking about.
Some, like you, play certain aspects of the game purely to maximize character progression. Once that’s no longer possible, they feel less motivated to log in.
Others care less for character progression(in terms of pure upgrades) while instead focusing on defeating the hardest content the game has to offer. Gear and rewards are just a means to an end. Their goal is to beat the final boss on the hardest difficulty.
We also have those who care about neither of these aspects/preferences.
My point is, there are a multitude of reasons as to why people play the game.
Titanforging has many upsides for a large portion of the playerbase. However, not for everyone. For some, the downsides of this system outweighs the upsides purely because anything below a certain ilvl is for them fairly pointless. It’s a stepping stone to where they want to go. And when that stone becomes larger purely because of something that often has very little value then, like I said, the upsides of the system just fades away.
Agreed, I’ve said it before, the upsides with this system are to many for it to be removed completely. Just that the downsides affecting another portion of said playerbase needs to be addressed as well.
A certain amount of RNG can idd make things more exciting. However, at a certain level, when it comes to gear, if no matter what you do, you can never guarantee a reward to be the best it can be. This for many players just makes it no longer worth thinking about. Which in turn could affect a player’s desire to continue with the game. Like I said, this is not how it is for everyone, but for some.
This almost entirely depends on what level you play the game/content at.
Not if your desire to play is mostly dependent on defeating said content. If gear only serves as a means to an end, then if you know that a certain item slot of yours holds the best possible item you can get for said slot. Then you(those players who desire this) WILL be happy.
I think regardless of how Titanforge is being remade, or fixed, or whatever, the bigger problem is the forced PL. Personal Loot escalates Titanforging. Being unable to trade a piece of gear with wrong stats to another person, whos they are best for is the worst feeling you can have when it comes to gear as a raider.
If atleast there weren’t also so stupid restrictions when it comes to weapons:
Healer couldn’t trade me a staff because he wore an 1h weapon+offhand. He then got a better 2h weapon that he equipped. He couldn’t trade me the next off hand because his previous one was lower from ilvl.
So as arms warrior for example you have to get a high ilvl shield for yourself before you can trade the next to your shaman friend even if you will never play tank.
I can understand why ilvl trading restrictions exist, but at least if an item isn’t more than 5-10 level higher than what you’re wearing it should be tradeable (and all wrapons should count as the same, no matter in which hand you hold them).
Well, then it depends on what you mean with ‘defeat’ it. I want to see and experience as much of the content for sure, but I don’t want to do higher difficulties and I don’t want to pvp.
I want to experience the story, I want to explore the zones, find its secrets, do quests. That’s what I enjoy. But after I’ve done the ‘unique’ stuff and go onto repeatable stuff, there has to be a carrot on a stick there. Otherwise it gets old fast.
And, like I said before, that doesn’t HAVE to be TF. But atm there is no alternative. I’m open to different systems taking its place, but not many people talk about that (there’s a few individuals, but they’re rare). Rather people like to blame everything and the kitchen sink on TF, demand its removal, and/or can’t make a single post without resorting to hyperbole; I’m getting rather sick of that.
While ultimately I would prefer if the loot system/gear system had the same base as it used to where gear levels we’re fully dependent on type of content as well as difficulty levels. However, like I’ve said earlier, I have no delusions about the current system having enough upsides to it to motivate keeping it in place.
That being said, there are issues with the current version of this system that needs to be addressed in order to better cater to all parts of the playerbase.
I have voiced my opinion on complementary systems working alongside the TF-system quite a few times.
One of them being this:
Max ilvl on gear for each new tier should be equal to the base ilvl of items dropping in mythic difficulty of the current raid, as an example, 415 with BoD.
There should be nothing above this until the next tier opens up.
Gem slots/sockets should not be a part of RNG. Certain items should have a guaranteed socket on them(or even several sockets). These items include: Necks, Rings, Trinkets.
Keep the warforge/titanforge procs on gear but give us an additional mechanic allowing for manual upgrades up to what equals max ilvl for the current tier.
My suggestion here was inspired by the Obliterum-system we had for crafted gear during Legion. Where you could acquire “tokens” to upgrade a specific item by 5ilvls.
These “tokens” could come from any source really. WQs, Emissary Qs, Mythic+, Raids, PvP and more. However, in order to prevent people from maximizing all gear all the time by farming these tokens we should probably limit the number of tokens that can be obtained to a specific number per week.
Why? Well, no point really in having gear progression if any item you get you could just get up to max ilvl by farming Mythic+ for a few hours.
So then you might think, well then, what would be the point in having such a system at all if you still can’t reliably set the pace yourself in which you upgrade gear.
My answer here is: there needs to be a certain portion of the gearing process that is completely up to you, how you choose to proceed, what you put your focus towards, hence why I’m suggesting these manual upgrade tokens. But if you can get too many of them you would essentially render the concept of warforging/titanforging useless.
Could an argument be made for why the WF/TF-system should then instead be replaced by a fully manual upgrade system? Yes, it could.
But at the same time, like I said, a certain level of RNG can idd make stuff more exciting.
With these 2 systems working together. We could have the pleasure of seeing any item capable of WF/TF, do just that. But no matter if you get it to titanforge or not. These manual tokens will aid those who happen to not be as lucky as others when it comes to loot rolls.
Totally agree! Loot progression is dead. Theres not even any point in pushing for the better gear to have a sense of achievement anymore as a brand new player can waltz into LFR and grab gear better than the raid stuff you spend hours farming raid materials for min maxing for etc etc. no sense of personal achievement anymore when everythings so rng
To a point. In the start you certainly do, but the item level of items does not increase as you progress further into the raid. For this reason, it is common that the classes and specs who has a lot of early BiS items become much more powerful during the tier, and the later items become useless past the first 10 weeks or so as a result.
Titanforging does little to solve this - in fact it makes it drastically worse by making farming of easy bosses give far better items than killing the last few bosses a few times.
That’s an aspect of titanforging and warforging I didn’t even think about, but it’s true and another nail in the coffin for this dumb system. And not only does this appear to be a negative side effect, it appears to be the core design intent - make it rewarding to farm easy content over and over again such that you can do harder content, while simultaneously not making harder content drop better rewards.
Honestly the WoW loot system is so bloody terrible it beggars belief. I can’t talk about it for 5 seconds without hitting into a massive design flaw, and I can keep going for half an hour about how awful it is. I hate almost everything about it.
Blizzard should thank their lucky stars so many of us formed social bonds in WoW and now don’t raid for gear, because if we did, we’d all have busted off ages ago.
Personally I’d hate to see that. If it’s gonna cap at +10 levels, then the entire system should just be removed. It won’t fix the problems people are describing here either.
Manual upgrade systems doesn’t work for me. I am done with grinding. I’d liek to just do content, get the gear I need for it then don’t go back if I so desire. It’s worked out pretty balanced for me this expansion. I am able to stay geared and able to progress without killing myself through repeating content. I don’t farm anything at all. I just want to play the game, not be locked out or severly handicapped because I don’t see any value in grinding for spesific items. I do see that you’d like these to work side by side, and I could live with that, but going back to a system like we had previously(farming “badges”) is nothing I will ever approve of. There needs to be an alternative for those of us who just want to play the game normally without repeating things for the sake of upgrading gear to progress further.
Oh! apologies for not agreeing with you and having a brain of my own! You can believe my quote is hyperbole all you want, point and fact is TF/WF ruined gear progression in this game. TBC/Wrath had it right.
I really dislike gambling bigtime…![:crazy_face:](https://d1bg94bbsh66ji.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/crazy_face.png?v=6" ":crazy_face:")