If you feel like this system is broken then don’t wear the gear that is TF’ed. Place it in the bank and do content without TF %
The WF/TF system and welfare gears are a little bit like free candy. Some people just can’t resist their urges.
Maybe deep down they know these candies are not good for their health but gotta have that instant gratification.
That’s just not true though - players have always boosted other players since vanilla. I agree back in vanilla and early TBC it was more complex to know the “better” players…but also as players back then we had more tolerance. Heck even I got involved in raids back then because the groups (in my experience at least) were constructive rather than destructive……. group members offered advice on what to do.
Nowadays it’s just a /kick without forethought because someone has struggles.
That’s why I don’t even bother to raid current content since WotLK because the toxicity of the Pugs was never like that before WotLK……anyway I digress.
Free candy is not a bad thing.
Eating candy is not a bad thing if you do it with limitations based on common sense. I, and many other players, are perfectly willing to take this ‘free candy’ in small doses.
Yet, there are those who think it’s realistic that they should get the absolute best gear in the game. They won’t be happy otherwise. It’s this kind of player that more often than not starts ‘eating candy’ until they throw up. THOSE are the kinds of players ‘who just can’t resist their urges’.
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This gear doesn’t make me a better DK… compared to the same base-line gear, it just make me more of an over-geared corpse than I would be if all I had was the base-line items.
My hope is that I can kill stuff faster, but it doesn’t always work like that.
In world content it very probably does help you kill stuff faster. In raid content and such, a lot more things will influence ‘your output’.
I personally don’t give a hoot about how I would perform in a raid, because I don’t raid. All I care about is how I perform in the content I do and enjoy. And for that, TF works. Very well.
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Bis is negated if a 395 item is better.
Im 386/387 and a mythic raider. Wf and tf keeps me grinding dungeons incase i get a juicy 395 tf. I like it
-Sorry for the long reply, but yeah, this is a topic I’m quite interested in-
As someone who since TBC(before, the focus was more on just exploring everything the game had to offer) aimed to do the hardest content possible with a focus on PvE. The effects that came from introducing the WF/TF-system, too me, introducing a system like the one we got just doesn’t make sense.
Suddenly, the incentive that the hardest content was providing in terms of item/character progression due to it rewarding the best possible gear, wasn’t there anymore.
It is true that running raids at a mythic level provides you with the highest possible chance to get a max ilvl piece as the base ilvl of items dropping in mythic is the highest(385 currently) which means running on lower difficulties will require even more luck in order to get an actual max TF’ed item. However…
You’re also left with the fact that for those that do put in the time and work that Mythic raiding requires aren’t actually guaranteed to get the best possible rewards. Again, in terms of item/character progression.
Mask it however you want, but in the end, this game is about perception and it’s also a competition for many players. You want to know with certainty that the work you put in, pays off. You want to know where you stand compared to others who put in the same amount of work.
With the latest addition to WoW’s competitive scene and the MDI. One of the rules during final tournaments is that all players are scaled to a fixed ilvl in terms of gear. I believe it’s still the same case with PvP/Arena tournaments isn’t it? Correct me if I’m wrong on this as I don’t engage in PvP.
Why should it be different for those that aim to compete at the highest levels(Mythic level that is) of raiding? Sure, with enough time the chance of you hitting the actual ilvl cap for the current raid tier will increase. But it’s still not guaranteed, far from it. Heck, you can spend an entire expansions worth of raiding and still not see/get a single max-ilvl piece.
Take the current raid tier for example. Normal Uldir rewards a base ilvl of 355. Heroic has a base of 370 and Mythic, a base of 385.
Personally I would want the WF/TF-system to be gone and forgotten. But too me, the second best thing would be this:
With each raid tier/season, any gear could roll up to and including Heroic difficulty of the current tier. Meaning 370 for the one we’re in now. Heck, if item’s could TF to 375 I would be fine by that. But…if you want the best possible gear the game can reward you with for each tier/season, a requirement should be that you’re gonna have to get into and work through the hardest content/difficulty possible.
I would happily continue on, writing in detail about other additions for a gear catch-up system similar to what we had in earlier expansions with Badges/Valor points and so on. I would however prefer something more similar to what we had in Legion with crafted items and the Obliterum(Forge).
Anyways, simply put, you can keep warforging/titanforging in the game(only up to what equals heroic difficulty of the current raid tier with each season), but make most content you do reward items that you can use to upgrade any piece of gear equal to what items can titanforge to(for example ilvl370 with the current tier). Make Emissary caches, completing a M+ dungeon, win an arena match or kill a raidboss(in the current tier) reward you with a +5ilvl token to put into any piece you want.
That’s it for me, for now.
Happy new year everyone!
TW/WF should be completely removed, there is absolutely no reason for it to exists.
If it stays it only brings problems and people will complain, if it gets removed literally nothing bad happens.
I dont care if you get 500IL for logging in and you are ok with that, I dont care if someone who never did any mythic dungeon or raid has 20IL higher gear than my raid active alts.
I play the game, I pay for my game and I want to enjoy it.
Logging in and having to do every single WQ, every raid difficulty just because “hey I might get some forging” is ruining game for me.
Not being able to focus on my gear because my warforged trinket from 3 expansions old timewalking dungeon is better than anything current mythic raid drops ruins the game for me.
Every time I get item from raid or M+ and I dont get any forging, meaning even though I just did end game content I didnt get best reward, ruins the game for me.
And every time I get some superimbacoolgodforging only to realize I got some useless +10 leech on my healer again ruins the game for me.
(Honestly my warlock has more avoidance than any of my tank alts)
tl;dr
Forging is nonsense, that has no reason to exist, brings only negative stuff into the game and removing it do absolutely no harm to anyone or anything. It would even improve the game because if items got hard sockets JWC would suddenly become useful profession.
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It messes up gear progression because you keep going back to completed content, other than having to do that content I don’t see what your problem is with others getting gear.
However gear isn’t a reward, it is merely a tool. As I said earlier on this forum, the likes of Method will take out Mythic end boss with less gear than many more. No one will remember who was 1869th to kill him even if they were a few ilevs higher. The reward is the achievement, not the gear.
This. And i did a 370 emissary quest this morning because of this, and lottery luck hit and I ended up with a 385 back with perfect stats. Therefore I feel I have to do more 370 emissary quests now.
If this is what you really think, then you haven’t been reading ANY replies from people who DO like this system. However, I don’t think it’s what you REALLY think and you’re just inserting hyperbole to try and empower your opinion.
If it’s replaced with another way to keep character progression going by doing content OTHER than mythic+ or raiding, then no it won’t be a problem. If they don’t provide such a replacement, they’re going to be losing a LOT of players. Way more than they would if they just leave it in the game.
That’s silly. Get your addiction under control then. This is YOU who is at fault. Not TF.
Not a TF problem, but a gear balance, stat weight problem.
Sucks, but that’s not anyone’s fault but your own. It’s a mindset.
Again; sucks, but that’s not anyone’s fault but your own. It’s a mindset.
Without any insults or salt.
Can you give me some actual reasons aside from “I like it”?
(or dont I dont care, I wont get mad 
)
Honestly this is “forging sucks post” number #5674687 so I admit I just scrolled down and hit reply.
But I have yet to see a single good reason why forging should stay.
Scratch everything I said about forging.
Heres one:
#1 JWC is now less useful profession because you have to rely on other people getting RNG sockets.
This is my biggest problem with forging, I dont care if you get 400IL item on level 111, yea Ill be jelly, but I wont go and crucify you.
But locking whole profession behind RNG is harmful to gameplay, there isnt a single reason why we dont have sockets as standard on weapons/rings/azerite pieces or your HoA (one of these or combinations)
Now tell me why should forging exist, why should there be system that has chance to give you “stronger” item just, because.
I simply dont see reason why it should be here, you already have RNG upgrades in the drop you get.
I for example had problem when I got some cool/fun weapon/trinket/set and it instantly became obsolete when new tier/season came out.
But I think that was nicely solved with M+ dungeons, and I will even be so kind I wont fight against weekly cache, thats “good” version of forging, where while you are not doing M10+ regularly, you pushed yourself for at least one, so now you have access to higher IL, and then you just continue with eg. M5 that are more suitable for someone.
EDIT: I hate replying on replies to replies … meh …
But short answer on some of the stuff you said.
For example that trinket is problem of TF, if it didnt forge, I would use it for a while and then replace it with something from current content, with forging I got M+ item from heroic.
Same with the raid loot, I went ICC, I got 25hc item, it wasnt my mindset, it was simply best item in current tier, now you have more RNG piled on top of it and even if you get best reward from final boss, you can go that boss again and drop same item, but better, because you get socket on it.
Forging has flaws in itself, how it is supposed to be upgrade or progression, when you can get same item 3 times and once it gets bonus IL, once it gets socket and once bonus stat.
And what is wrong with players either obtaining the higher level gear via titanforging/warforging, incursions, or warfronts? As it is an mmo, players should have a choice when obtaining gear and WOW gives us these choices in many forms. One can either do mythic dungeons or raids, WQ’s , warfronts, or incursions to get higher level gear. Some people need the gear to handle the outside world or to do light PVP.
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Hello,
Well, sure you had some procs there, but thats nothing special you got there. You are far away from a full mythic geared raider. At this point even without procs you can get 360-370ilvl cause its intended at this point.
I never killed a mythic raid boss this tier and i got 384 ilvl. Have less then 40 boss kills… Tell me about it. Btw my alt warrior is 371 ilvl and never touched any dungeon ,raid or rpvp
The main reason why I like it: It gives me character progression doing the content I like to do. And it does that so well, that it prolongs the time I play (now, the wellfair gear they’re handing out in BfA actually counteracts this sadly).
If it’s not there, I would be ‘done’ and probably quit (and no, I wouldn’t start doing more difficult content because that simply doesn’t interest me whatsoever). So if Blizzard would make a new progression system that could replace TF, I’d be fine with that.
I agree on the socket part though and I’ve stated this before in another thread. I do think TF should be limited to just ilvl and maybe ‘useless’ stuff such as ‘indestructable’. And even on the ilvl side, I wouldn’t mind if the max limit was lower than it is now. +20 or +25 at max would still be fine with me and still give a pretty good range of progression to aim for.
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For titanforging to be any good you need to bypass at least 4 layers of rng. 4!
- getting a drop
- that drop needs to be in a slot you need
- that drops needs to have the secondaries you need
- that drop needs to be higher ilvl that what you have
For all the claims how LFR and normal players are decked out in current tier mythic level gear there is no proof of this. If it existed we’d see armory links and screenshots constantly. We don’t. We’ve all seen the same handful of images of an LFR piece titanforging to a decent ilevel, but it’s such a rarity that nobody has several LFR or normal pieces like that. If you run heroic every week all tier you can expect to have a couple mythic level titanforged pieces but that is not a common thing. No actual data to the contrary. Pretty easy to see from armory links that people who run heroic all tier will have a few nice pieces. Who gives a d*** ? Mythic raiders shouldn’t care about that because all their pieces are at least that level or higher. Players shouldn’t be obsessed about does LFR or normal player wins the lottery or a heroic player works all tier to get a couple nice pieces. The TF issue is overblown by certain type of players and a case of special snowflake syndrome from a couple of youtubers.
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