Titanforging, masterloot, etc... Blizzard you're killing the game

(Rezista) #83

We have had such system in Ulduar. Why was it removed? I have no clue. Ulduar was a perfection of a raid system (even though I don’t enjoy the raid that much).

(Seffi) #84

it is a problem, and they have lost perception whit reality, no question about it, but, but I actualy blame Activision for it, heck all knew that when blizz joins them, things will go for the worse, and it did, but at same time, Blizz has not fumbled as much as some other companies have, heck almost all companies under EA is in a even worse situation,
thing is we should blame activision not blizzard, becuse Blizzard do not have much to say now.

(Seffi) #85

Aggree ulduar was perfect, and that system worked realy fine, I am not sure why they didnt stick to it eighter. heck that system could have been put in to 5 man dungeons even, where if you did something different it became harder etc…

(Redoctober) #87

OK, let’s blame Activision, but it was still Activision leading when they made MoP which quite a few people seemed to at least come to terms with if not enjoy. Heck, it was Activision when they made Wrath, which a lot of people seemed to like. I’m not going to deny that Activision is probably guilty of some of the greed that underlines WoW lately, but some of the crap they do in WoW can hardly be traced to Activision in any way - class design being so shallow for all classes for one, or all these revised “we hear you community” systems that are getting worst, like Azerite. These are design decisions made by people who are seemingly fed up with working out what their players find fun, not decisions made by some marketer based on profit. These are on Blizzard, on Ion’s team in particular.

(Seffi) #88

offcourse it aint only activision, but Activision is setting deadlines for sure, what contributes in less content, more easier and faster ways to do stuff, like less skills to handle etc…, it actualy started whit mop quite well, where things got pruned for the first time and then continued, Wod was a perfect example on what happens when rushed, reason blizz stopped on wod, to make legion better, and they did succed, but the dmg was done already.
as you say, devs do not want to listen to players, or desing things anymore, that is Activisons fault totaly, becuse they make them rush, meening none bother anymore, everything become halv arsed made.
it has happend to almost every game that has some sort of big marketing company behind them.

Blizzard have Activison.
Bungie had Activision.
Bethesta had EA if I recall.

and what happend, everything goes sour, in some way or the other, and for what, yes profit, nothing else than profit, and over the years it has become worse, a lot worse.

(Redoctober) #89

You are probably confusing Bethesda with Bioware, but yea I think you are partially right. I also think the big publisher corps like Activision or EA are cancerous, but it quite frankly does not make me feel any more lenience towards what WoW has become.

(Seffi) #90

you do not need to wow, aint what it used to be, but at same time it aint in same sorry state as some other games are, what even got totaly destroyed, atleast not yet.

(Aundra) #91

Yeah, but why?
I imagine the big Activision directors meet in the meeting room and talk about cutting costs and increase profit. They don’t have a clue about WoW, not with bijillion of other games to take care of. So They ask Blizzard to implement cutting costs strategies and increase profit.
Blizzard says: ‘Ok, will try, maybe we could hold Kul’Tiran and Zandalari a bit longer’.
Activision: ‘who?’
Blizzard: ‘NVM We’ll do it’
Then Blizzard managers go to developers and say: ‘Guys, we have to implement these timegating strategies’
Developers: ‘But wouldn’t that piss off the playe…’
Blizzard managers: ‘you’re payed to do your job’.
And yeah… pretty much activision is a company that wants profit, it let blizzard deciding all the strategies concerning WoW, as far as they meet their requirements.
Activision killed WoW? no! Blizzard could have done other cutting costs and profit strategies but no! this is what Blizzard choose.

(Redoctober) #92

But I do not agree that it happens to every company with a big publisher. For example Total War: Warhammer is a great game for the genre they are in, and are published by Sega. Civilization 6 is published by Take Two, which owns Rockstar Games, and I can safely say that I don’t see either greed influencing game design there, not the complacency that is apparent here. Even StarCraft 2 did nothing wrong I can see, although it is also published by Activision… the list can go on and on, there are some great games published by major publisher corporations that still are being well made.

(Seffi) #93

and what would they have done, gone against Activision, well it would not have taken long before they eighter got dispanded, and new devs and most likely all the bosses would have gotten changed then, you can se it happening now, where many leaves or get sacked, yes Blizzard did follow the rules they gotten, but did they have choise, doubt that.

(Seffi) #94

true not all, I think it comes down to who is in charge, some do have perceptions on what players want and need, where others, just do it for profit, I also think that almost no independt gaming companie can realy survive now whit no publisher behind them, though there is exeptions offourse.

(Redoctober) #95

That is probably true, but there are major differences between publishers. EA and Activision possibly embody what is worst in the industry, but others seem to be much better. CD Projekt Red is getting no flak for any kind of greedy business practice, because they don’t actually show greedy business practices. Take Two Interactive, the third biggest pubisher in the world after EA and Activision, manage to have games like Red Dead Redemption 2, the X Com series or the Civilization Series in their portfolio, and whoever played those games may criticize them for things but they certainly aren’t greedily trying to sell you loot boxes at every step. They even have a subsidiary publishing company (Private Division) that publishes little known but really good indie game titles like Kerbal Space Program.


patch of exile is also very weak example since its atm the next big bandwagon that unpopular twitch stremers desperately try to jump ships to to make money - so they are overhyping the s…t out of it only so that people watch them because they failed to break the 200-300 regular watchers while playin other game.

you can see the same with wow classic with people like stasafe or esfand desperately appearing everywhere just so they catch enough people to stay on top of stremers while classic launches.


CD Project is also a baby company on international market - next to nobody outside of Poland heared about them prior to Witcher 3 and even Witcher 3 is single player game making it impossible to capitilise on microtransactions . So comparing them with 1 well known single player game to giants like Activisions , Bethesda etc is hillarius

(Redoctober) #98

The logic in this paragraph is absolutely astounding.

  1. Path of Exile is overhyped by unpopular streamers - how can someone that is unpopular overhype anything? Being unpopular means they have little following, which in turn should lead to the conclusion that anything they attempt will lead to virtually no result.

  2. If people already want to watch Path of Exiles gameplay, it means they are interested in the game prior to the unpopular streamers attempt to create the bandwaggon.

  3. Checking twitch right now, PoE top stream has 2k views, while the wildly popular WoW’s top stream has 1.4k views. It’s morning, so low viewer counts are normal, but it doesn’t seem to be unwanted or a bad example in any way.

Right, because that was the only example I gave.


No it doesn’t , it makes bad players unsub and so and play something where they get their moneys worth.

Look at the first downward trend in subs, Cata, because they went back to carefully controlled CC in dungeons. What happend they lost a few million subs because the catered to the “make it harder” brigade.

They have the right balance now, Heroic/Mythic raiding for those who seek challenge and high end M+Keys as well.

At the end of the day this game has to make a profit and keep its subs up. Catering by only giving decent gear to the small percentage actually completing content at raid or high key level is not a clever move.

If you want to raid do so for the challenge, not to flex the epeen of your gear in some other players face.

(Destruct) #102

But then the others started complaining they couldn’t keep up in gear and demanded more, easier and faster catchup, higher IL gear and kept defending TF as something good. This makes it look like that side isn’t intrested in doing difficult content but do want the rewards of it, that it’s about getting a single FoS or the journey that’s important.

ML would have been removed by the devs regardless because they were aiming for complete RNG gearing, but the defenses in favor of removing it complety were simply going to absurb stretches “once, 10 years ago, a corrupt GL ninjaed for his girlfriend! Thus I stopped raiding”. So how many of you went back to guuild raiding now ML is gone? I can tell you at recuitement numbers not alot, they still play mainly LFR or pug normal. Between 13 and 13.5 years ago cops were unfairly targetting me, I couldn’t even stand in my own front garden anymore. Walk the back then brand new puppy? Stopped, skating in my own neighbourhood? Sitting on a damned bench? Walking past the children play area? I was feeling a prisoner in my own house.

I stopped going outside and gave up on outside hobbies, this doesn’t mean all cops are corrupt just those 2 neighbourhood officiers who were overzealous and bored. I should have come out and told my parents, but I never did and they succesfully abused their power and got me of the streets while my biggest crime ever was tossing an eaten up apple into the bushes once. But this only means that whenever I see those specific cops I give them the middlefinger behind their backs, I still respect others. But those 2 showed me how unreasonable and corrupt some cops can be…


The player base has changed, people don’t stop gaming now when they hit 20. Many players are in high powered jobs, have families and at the end of the day they have far more money than the students who want to keep it gear elitest.

If you raid, raid because you like getting the achievement for doing the challenge. Don’t raid because you don’t like it and are only doing it for gear.

(Tahra) #104

It’s the single greatest thing that ever happened to the casual community. *

Guess which community is bigger?

  • Spoiler alert: I was using hyperbole, just like the post I reacted to.

(Gannet) #105

Because you say so? Do you often go around deciding who’s right and who’s wrong?
I’m dismissing arguments because they are bad, it doesn’t matter who says them and it’s not my fault that people are parrot something from a youtube video that’s demonstrably false, as i mentioned in that example you chose to ignore and claim i’m not discussing anything. I should take that as a sign of how much you’re interesting in a discussion.

You repeating the same crap won’t make it true. Even if i grant you that people get 360 just by logging in, THAT’S NOT BECAUSE OF TITANFORGE, their gear comes from emissaries, world bosses and warfronts. TF accounts for very little of one’s overall ilevel, this is pretty obvious if you would take 5 seconds to actually inspect armory.

Last most of the clueless people in 10s have much higher ilvl than 360, they generally have 370-375 because they buy boosts, yet somehow there is no outrage about this.

When someone gets 1-2 high TF items, taking their overall item level from 360 to 363 that is ruining the game for raiding and M+10 content.
When someone buys a boost and gets from 340 to 370+ in a week nobody says anything, probably because the same hypocrites who whine about TF are the ones providing the boosts.