Upcoming 8.2 ARMS Buffs - they are not enough !

PVP Arenas
21

L33T ideas mate. I have something extra to add!

  1. Whenever a CC effect is applied on the Warriors, they get launched into the sky for 3-5 seconds as well!
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Warriors would’ve been just fine if other classes hadn’t gone bananas and tangerines with insane passive healing and mobility.

If you have classes that do over 6k HPS as DPS then we probably have an issue on our hands. And I don’t even mean DKs who are in their own league.

It’s the passive healing that is the problem, not warriors.

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The class doesn’t really have a “solid” comp, it has a comp (with the DK) that allows it to at least play something, which further proves the point warriors are weak.
“Solid” yet DKs prefer to play with monks or DHs. Warriors needs DK, not the vise versa, nor the DK needs a warrior for some really strong synergy or to boost each other strong sides. Don’t know what you have vs warriors, but they really need a buff, really and it’s so obvious.

4 Likes
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In all honesty, Necrotic Strike and Maledict are here defining the melee meta, but a class with 50% healing reduction is prioritized less than a WW/DH for DKs.

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This would be so broken haha.
Might aswell buff warrior so they are immune to all damage!

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I think whaaz played warr and boomkin in tourney. But yes you are almost right.

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They almost all HAVE other classes and are sometimes required to play thel because of countercomps that they would just autolose on their main classes since every team can bring more than 2 dps 1healer. But what they play the most is always the same yeah.

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It’s actually overly mobile and I’d nerf its mobility alongside with Mage’s, DH’s, Monks and other crazy mobile melee that make the game more about reaction time instead of tactics and knowledge. Compare mobility now to mobility in vanilla… I wish game was “slower” like there, where you slows mattered… now only roots feel like they matter, you have to pillar hug a lot and most melees (Warrior included) instantly connects.

That doesn’t really sound balanced.

I’d say Rogue seems the strongest class on paper.

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I think we could have rend with stormbolt as baseline. This would be a good change without getting overpowered. Something like every mortal strike refresh the rend-tick.

Thats way to broken mate. I think we dont need any selfheals. Its just the fact that every other meele got their own passive healing. Remove it and then warr will look pretty solid.

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Is it? I don’t think it’s true. Beside the tournament players, who are playing fotm classes/comps for obvious reasons, I know a lot of people who got Ele after being Enh for a couple of years. Ferals who got Boomy, Afflis who got Destru, Discs who got Shadow, or also a lot of people who dropped their actual main and rerolled something completely new (and strong!). And it are mainly those who have decent ratings!

Sure, not everyone is rerolling, people keep to their favorite class if it’s still viable somehow, but one aspect of having fun in this game is to be viable. So if your class barely can compete, what will you do?! :slight_smile:

Haven’t seen Blizo playing WW before Legion, or Whazz WW/Boomy before BfA? Sure, he’s still playing his rogue, but have you seen Blizo playing warrior at any game? He’s playing him only on ladder, if even. Well, Raiku is maining Mage and alting DH - one is the most powerful class ingame, the other one at least pretty strong. Have you seen him playing a trash spec like affli, frost dk, or similiar? Of course not and if he would play DK or Warlock, he would play Unholy/Destru!

We dont! We don’t have all the needed data to get a 100% accurate value of the popularity of a class/spec. Take this example:

But only comparing the classes wouldn’t have any effect. Take rogue, rogue was pretty popular over all decades, but except for maybe Cata it was always a class that were strong in PvP and PvE. Have you never heard about the WoW rule that rogue and mage are just never bad! Some people say it’s because so many people play those classes, but isn’t it also the way around that so many people play those classes, because they are never bad?!

Where we get back to the main rule: In PvP the popularity of a class directly scales with its strength!

P.S.: Warrior is also one of the most popular WoW classes ever - barely see anyone on my FL playing one currently. Back in Legion where warrior got some really really strong buffs, at least one third was playing warrior (also the representation was 1/3 in the ladder if I remember correctly). So how do you wanna explain the popularity drop?!

Interesting side node: Blizz refused for weeks to nerf them back then as well, defending the ladder representation with the popularity of a class. :roll_eyes: :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

1 Like
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Did you went up there to see for yourself or is it just a wild guess ?

To answer that lets have a look at something I said days ago :

I hope you understand the NECESSITY of being proficient with several classes in today’s tournaments. A lot of classes hardcounter others, so if you have only one comp available to you and face a counter you are heavily disfavored especially at pro level where mistakes are few. And to answer why Raiku has gone for DH and not Frost Dk, I’ll make it crystal clear. *When a player decides to learn a second class and master it to beat what he would lose against with his main, he OBVIOUSLY DOESN’T PICK THE WEAK CLASS THAT WOULD ALSO LOSE WITH". I’d have thought that bit was obvious but it seems I was wrong.

Sentences like these take away all the credibility your posts can have. Double check the facts. Cata Rogues were INSANE.

That again is entirely false. Rogues are mediocre sometimes and so are Mages. The combination of the two is always viable though. Which is entirely different.

You would need to listen to those “some people”. Have you noticed Whaaz, Pikaboo, Nahj and other excellent Rogues kept playing Sub and even Sub Healer in 2s, or Thug Cleave in 3s BEFORE Subtlety was buffed when it was considered one of the top trashiest spec in the entire game ? They also played the best spec, but weren’t afraid to queue with the worst set up at 2k9. This fact is true with other classes mained by excellent players. How easy it would have been to reroll WW and main it for Season 2 and get R1 with it. Did they ? No. Why ? Because they have their main classes and stick to them. This is why we don’t have 100% DK/DH, DK/WW, and Ele/Destro, all with a Rdruid, on ladder. Did you know that at some point maybe month or two back rank one was held by Disc Mage Rogue in NA ? DISC. Any game against a Dk, or even against RMPala should be a loss yet they played and went the highest.

Therefore :

No. It would be wrong to say they aren’t linked, as a matter of fact they are. But quite not that directly. A strong class will see its popularity rise. True. Is popularity ranked by strength ? Not at all. You can’t say oh it’s popular so it’s powerful, or say it’s powerful so it’s the most popular. And then you can’t look at ladder and say hey Mage is the most broken class because it’s the most played. No. No. We just happen to have an okay class with several possible viable comps as well as a lot of excellent Mages when this isn’t true for some more powerful class resulting in them being less played at top ladder.

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How about you? :slight_smile:

Obviously ->

But how does it change the fact, that noone is playing affli or frost dk, neither in tournaments nor on ladder? You got the answer yourself but somehow you still aren’t able to see that weak class/specc = low popularity. How comes?! :slight_smile:

Where did you get your so called facts from? Cata was actually a pretty heavy caster addon. Rogue got strong in the last season due the legendary daggers but dunno if I would take 1/2 of a season of a whole expansion as an indicator - especially since he was still just viable, not outshining.

All this is only based on PvP and my own experience back from the days. No clue about PvE tho. But hey, I’m open to change my mind if you can serve me any objective statistics back from Cata which show another picture!

Call me one example in last 6-8 years or something where Rogue or Mage were not good. Good doesn’t mean op/outstanding/awesome - good means “solid spot”. And now compare it with most other classes, they all had good/awesome but also bad/terrible days! That is the difference I mean - but you are acting like a typical rogue player - just being good means for you automaticly being bad somehow… :stuck_out_tongue:

Whazz? Pica may did not, but how good went their thugcleaves at the tournament? Also other player played their main class at top level, but beside the fact that they still are alting good classes (which they would stop as soon as they are bad), I don’t know if I would count anything else than R1 as

Well, if the popularity rise/fall with the strength, isn’t the popularity automaticly ranked by strength?! I mean, your heart may feel for a class/spec, but if it isn’t strong/viable it’s less fun and most will pick another class then (at least alting) or stop playing. So based on logic the popularity of a class direclty scales with it strength - it doesn’t mean you won’t see a class/spec here and there, but a lot more/less often based on the strength.

Since we agree both to this simple rule, I really don’t know what we are wasting time with “some out of a multi thousand pool stick to their class - at least somehow”.

Have a nice time tho! We are running in a wheel and I hate it to be a hamster - not sure about you! :wink:

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Long answer : do you honestly believe someone (in that case, me) would be so stupid as to ask that question if the someone in question (me, again) would answer no to it ?
Short answer : yes. At least close enough to actually fight some of those guys on several occasions.

Answer is :

To make it more clear it is obvious that strength impacts immediate popularity but it doesn’t define it. That’s just it. In the end a class loved by half the players will always be, if it suddenly becomes the weakest class many might drop it for another but a % will remain and you’ll still have people playing it.

Regarding Affliction and Frost, when you stand zero chance at killing someone with a broken spec you do bot climb the ladder. There’s difference between “weak” and “doesn’t have enough damage to pierce passive Prism healing”. It’s like you’re saying “oh look few uses old cars (weak clases) in this race see everyone has top new ones (strong classes)” and then you go “and hey that blue bike isn’t even used” (affli/Frost) well yeah obviously since there are zero chances it beats any of the cars.

I could look, I doubt Cata data has been preserved like that and is easy to access though.

Nah, Rogues were brokenly stupid with daggers and Vial. They were really solid overall without, even in early Cata. Double Smoke Bomb and stuff like that helped a lot.

If I remember right Combat was really really really good in PvE at least during the last tier, and Assa was decent in some fights too. I could be wrong on that.

Since you quoted specs rather than classes earlier (quoting classes would have erased your point about Warlocks and DKs I supposed) I’ll do the same. I’ll stay on the PvP side of the spectrum too. Outlaw is trash in PvP currently. Was mediocre last season. Sib buffs made it viable for Fire Sub in 2s, it remains a low average if not bad 3s spec. It was trash during all Season 1 after their nerf, which happened 1 week into the season. So it was essentially trash all season. Basically if you want consistent push you’re forced to go Assa. That covers BfA.
In Legion I seem to remeber Sub started good with the Shadowstrike teleport madness then got killed until 7.2. I believe Outlaw has a rough time somewhere in the expansion. I wouldn’t know about Assa, as I remember it wasn’t exceptional in early legion. Like it didn’t have Blind for a while and the damage wasn’t that insane. Might be wrong. That’s a moment in time I didn’t keep myself updated about the game.
As for WoD Assa wasn’t exactly good, I’d even say not good in arena, aside from the oneshot meme combo that you could pull off in BGs or against idiots.

I wouldn’t presume to talk about Mage. I just know in WoD at some point people complained they had little damage and were the CC bot of rmp just like sub is right now.

Allow me to disagree for one, and second I don’t see how the class I post with has any relevance with what I can think or say. Dumb comment if anything.

That is the whole point we seem to disagree on. I say no. Explanation incoming. Your fav food is tacos (I’ve decided that). Where you eat you can choose between tacos and salad. Needless to say you always pick tacos. Tacos is the most popular thing. The food maker makes them with equal skill. One day he starts making bad tacos and delicious salads. People will start eating salad more. Salad popularity will rise. Hence, tacos pooularity will drop. Does that NECESSARILY MEAN people will eat more salad than tacos (making it more popular) ? Absolutely not !!! Tacos popularity will be lower than before, granted. Salad popularity will be higher than before, granted. But that’s it, that’s not enough to decide which one is first. It’s also like, you get to pick two numbers, say 3 and 8. You have to increase the low one and decrease the high one. Well, after that the former low one might still be low, or might not. You could have 3>4 and 8>7 as well as 3>9 and 8>2. See my point ?

Eh, being a hamster might be cool at times. Who knows !

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Oh really? But not with that rogue, or? If so, then I’m actually still in a better position, while being low rated since playing mostly with lfg randoms in weird comps to cap. :smiley: At least, for me 2.1+ is still pretty low rated, not sure how you define it…

Then we obviously have a different description of “popularity”. For me, popularity of a class is defined by how many people are actually playing the class currently. For you it seems to be some lore stuff or something.

While reading the rest of your text, I really don’t wanna waste any more time with this s… wall of text full of subjective “nonsense”, sorry dude.

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With that Rogue last season (I guess you can check that ?) and another character this season even though I didn’t bother to go as high given the… Unpleasantness of the current game. The same is true for the people I enjoyed playing with so… And yes 2.1-2.2 is kinda low and was by no means what I referred to as “higher ratings”.

I agree. But… Do everyone play a class ONLY because it’s good, or ONLY IF it’s good ? No. More do, true. But there is a set amount of people that played it before it became good and who will play it after it gets average or bad again. Conclusion : popularity isn’t necessarily ranked by strength as other factors are to consider.

Don’t be. Not fueling the conversation might have been a better idea then though.

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Arms needs SELF HEAL - MOBILITY . rog - dk - dh - pala - shaman - druid - monk - hunter mage - almost all classes kiting arms ezz.
And only 1 defensive on 3 min cd ? cant escape from anyone too
feels so bad

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Check this Arms talent i made

https:/ /imgur.com/G740SK6

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Just gonna say, in my opinion warriors have either enough, or too much healing, thought we were a glass cannon class, run resounding protection x3, stormbolt & use your fear & leap to heal back to full health in PvP, rarely fails for me and for pve … well when my shield procs, my heal is not far behind

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nah

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Lol at the begining of MoP when warriors were gods their Second Wind wasn’t as strong.

Just “small selfheal” lol