Vindicated - Liadrin's past just proved the old Sunwell was holy too

Lore Story
1

Just look.
Holy energy through the old Quel’thalas Sunwell. Priests. Thus Arcane AND Light.

  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=CoJgQA4Uhks

I’m not going to explain again why, it was done long ago. (Sadly the wowpedia moguls didn’t take it into account.) So here it is - copy-paste for future forum resets.

Actually, the Sunwell was Holy all that time. (Except right before BC) - Canon versus fanon

These 4 or 5 last years, many mislead fans have spread a forum myth based on misinterpretations, overinterpretations and blatant fanfic regarding the Sunwell, the magic fountain of Quel’Thalas. According to that widespread theory, the Sunwell was never holy before is desecration by Arthas, and “became” a source of Light out of nowhere thanks to Velen and the remains of M’uru.
Yet it is true that Velen and M’uru reignite the Sunwell, as a Arcane and Holy magical source, the previous statement regarding its Light is inaccurate: the actual lore is full of hints and obvious proofs that the Sunwell have been a source of Holy power in its past, before being defiled then “shut down” by Kael’Thas.

In order to understand what is the topic, one should read the former forum thread linked below, because it would take too much hours to rewrite the various pieces of evidence (and the theory I proposed to explain these facts):
https://eu.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/17616192882

I paste here the latest review

(For those who missed this spoiler : https://www.wowhead.com/news=287546/patch-8-1-ptr-notable-npcs-zekhan-xalatath-ranger-general-sylvanas-spoilers )

-SPOILERS-

The Heritage Armor for the blood elf characters may imply to remember/witness the fall of the original Sunwell.

So Blizzard may address my OP question earlier than I would have ever expected.
If we actually see the original Sunwell in these scenes.

For the fans, this means a massive retcon, whatever happens.

If my insight is confirmed, then the author of Wowpedia Sunwell page and such “Only-Arcane theorists” will have a fit or will just deny the canonicity of the scenario.

If the Only-Arcane fanon is confirmed, then I’ll admit to be wrong and all the proofs (former cutscenes, artworks, quests) to be definitely retconed.

The cards are in the devs’ hands and the suspense is high.

Yet, I already notice that Liadrin is confirmed that she has been a priestess.

Unsurprisingly for the people who genuinely know the High Elf / Blood Elf lore, this quest confirmed the Holy (and Arcane) nature of the Sunwell before its collapse during the Scourge Invasion with a pretty clear column of Light, just like in previous lore and artworks about the sunwell of that time.
Let’s check:
-SPOILER-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMt-dGu7dAA

Of course many parts of the lore are misleading, I suspect some scenarists not to be clear about it, themselves, just like the author of the ascended fanon “In The Shadow Of The Sun”.

I know people of good faith already admited the facts long ago, but who knows if some mislead (or ill-willed?) gamepedia writers - who spread the wrong theory in the first place - will do about it? … I don’t know if even the actual canon on screen facing them can be enough, and it’s quite sad for the sake of lore.

Edit
For any purpose, just suming up the linked thread above:

  • The lore into the Classic gamebook - source :
    http://s3.amazonaws.com/szmanuals/b8446d3d6f34a651412bfa58a8198de8

“In due course, Arthas submerged Kel’Thuzad’s remains within the holy waters of the Sunwell. Although the potent waters of Eternity were fouled by this act, Kel’Thuzad was reborn as a sorcerous lich.”

Displays of golden-white Light according to in-game material

  • Screenshots of Warcraft III sprites - source:
    https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/9/9a/Sunwell.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20061212071226
  • Content of WoW : Fury Of The Sunwell patch trailer - source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJuC4zpMSAQ
  • Current content of WoW : legacy armor quest displaying the sunwell of that time - source (spoiler): https://d1u5p3l4wpay3k.cloudfront.net/wowpedia/thumb/0/0b/Sunwell_destruction.jpg/300px-Sunwell_destruction.jpg?version=6b58048db16e69ec255b1be1f742b7f8

Displays of golden-white Light according to out-of-game material

  • artwork in Chronicles tome 1 (pp.110-111 in the french version) (looking like exactly how Shattrath displays it, aka the City of Light) - Source:
    http://media.mmo-champion.com/images/news/2016/february/WoWChronicleSample-16.jpg

The story telling that “something” was broken after Kel’thuzad profanation.

  • and it was not its arcanic power, since Kael’thas had yet to destroy the well in order to avoid his people to be infused by the profanation , thus the arcane flow was still efficient at that point. However, a profanation against a holy place, like a DK to a paladin tomb, displays this kind of reaction.

The story telling that Velen had to reignite the Sunwell - as it was - even if it means a little different, of course.

Prophet Velen says: “In time, the light and hope held within - will rebirth more than this mere fount of power… Mayhap, they will rebirth the soul of a nation ”

  • (debatable - many different interpretations of these lines ofc)
    Source: http://www.wowhead.com/npc=26246/prophet-velen

Many lore texts in flavour descriptions

  • the Vial of the Sunwell (that dropped before the rebirth of the Sunwell) and its mechanics - source:
    https://www.wowhead.com/item=34471/vial-of-the-sunwell&bonus=4080
  • Items and quest in the Ghostlands, the stone of light , and the fact it is imbued with a magic energy of the Sunwell - source:
    https://www.wowhead.com/item=22598/stone-of-light

“According to this journal, Dar’Khan promised the Scourge two powerful elven artifacts: the stone of light and the stone of flame. These were imbued with the magical energies of the Sunwell and attuned to have warding powers against the Scourge.”

  • source : https://www.wowhead.com/quest=9176/the-twin-ziggurats

Golden eyes that are mistakenly presented as a “new feature” among the Thalassian “thanks to” the “new” holy well, in fact are older than WoW.

  • Fact checking on Warcraft 3 icons: https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/wowwiki/images/1/15/HighBloodElfArcher.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/185?cb=20060117011036
  • Here too:
    http://liquipedia.net/commons/images/f/ff/Bloodmage.gif
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I wouldn’t focus on in game texts too much, by that logic sunwell is also elune as thoridal star’s fury is named as such, and it still shoots arcane arrows by the way. Also color isn’t always a sure way of telling magics, all shadowlands magic is death magic yet ardenweald has blue magic and revendreth has red, arcane is soemtimes blue sometimes purple, void is sometimes blue sometimes purple. Moonwells are a source of life and arcane magic, yet they are also blue for instance.

Light of elune is blue, but light is gold, but elune also has sway over life etc. I get what you are coming from but—It is honestly at best speculation given the actual lore, as in literal dialogues and books.

From nightborne unlock questline in legion: The sunwell was corrupted by our enemies, but a naaru’s sacrifice purified it’s waters. -NOW- the essence of the Light sustains us.

Sunwell was made from TWO things, a nexus of leylines, and vial of well of eternity water, which lore already states is arcane, there’s no real reason for it to have been light until after the naaru deal.

Also: Blood of the Highborne: …the Sunwell: the magnificent heart of their society, a nurturing source of mystical energies, and a seemingly inexhaustible fount of arcane power.

Blood Elf on the Official Website - “the draenei prophet Velen purified the Sunwell with the Light-infused heart of a fallen naaru, transforming the fount into a source of both holy and arcane energies.”

The Art of Wrath of the Lich King - “Now empowered with the Light, the Sunwell is a beacon of hope for Azeroth.”

Chris Metzen & Micky Neilson interview with Blizzplanet - “M’uru was kind of transformed back into his purest self, purest light, that Velen used to reignite the Sunwell as a fountain of Holy power, as much as it is arcane.”

2 Likes
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What

Shadowlands is it’s own little (danuser’oid) pocket-universe with quite few validity outside.
Even now Necrotic magic on “reality”, on Azeroth, was given the Green-Cyan color code.

Also you just don’t deny the pictures, that show holy magic, somehow you also manage to deny what the actual characters are speaking about out loud - the Holy Light - while Little Liadrin is literally touching it right from the Sunwell.

Dude.

Such level of cope is hilarious.

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Ah yes—Dude judging the magic by color vs the who can’t even read a simple citation, good luck my dude <3

For future refenrece by the way, I know it can be hard to wrap your head around it though

-WRITTEN- Lore>Visual Aspects>Your own personal take on game mechanic material

Hope it helps c:

1 Like
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So please consider the WRITTEN lore now. Thanks :slight_smile:

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You mean like Shadowlands, yeah?

Just so we’re both clear on the definition.

Because as you can see it’s quite clearly written.

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If the Sunwell is a derivative of the the Well of Eternity which itself is a pool of Azeroth’s blood, then the pre wc3 golden hue could be down to it being related to Azerite in some form or titans blood which is inherently arcane in nature but blue and gold in apperance.

It’s original holy nature is that fact it was the sacred focal point upon which high elf society was built, not that it was holy in itself. It’s only natural that overtime a society may come to revere it. Even the Nightborne did the same thing with the Nightwell and the Kaldorei with the Well of Eternity before both.

That said, you can use that power, the mana drawn from it for any sort of spellwork be it arcane, light or something all together more sinister like necromancy, fel or shadow. That’s why every villain is always after it seems. Be they the scourge, the legion or now the void.

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You know, when I watched the cinematic, I totally called it on how much and how far players will misinterpret from visual cues alone.

Priest + Theocratic Speech + Well of Power + Yellow/Gold Colour + In a Bright Room = Religion.

All it was missing was a choir background to fully paint the misconception.

Edit: Wonder how much or how less it would have been if Liadrin’s father was a Warrior instead of a clothie. I say clothie because, once again, visual cues may offer even further misconception to OTHER things.

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This is needlessly petty and nit-picking [and might be known to you], but as far as I know we don’t know if her real father was a soldier or not. The “father” she regards in the cinematic is her adoptive father, High Priest Vandellor.

https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Vandellor

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Woah, neat!

Did not know this. Thanks!

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I’m kinda missing the relevance of the question. I mean, even for RP purposes “the High Elves had their version of the Light religion that incorporated their focus on the sun and sunwell” would suffice, wouldn’t it? If it was the source of power, or just a part of their culture that was revered to a religious degree (as things that you need to survive and thrive tend to be), doesn’t sound particularly different in its consequences for character behaviour to me.

And going back 20 years and claiming that the devs always meant it one way or another is a losing game in Warcraft anyhow. If it was planned beforehand, that’s a fluke, that they would have thrown away without regrets, if they ever had something that seemed like a better idea to them along the way. Consistency never came first, not in TBC, not now.

1 Like
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A plausible interpretation (not confirmed)

Very doubtful interpretation. According to Chronicles t1 it should even be “inherently spirit in nature”.
Azeroth being a Titan is -in itself- moot titan propaganda according to latest lore evidence.

This is a simple and sufficient explanation for the Holy magic emerging from the Sunwell.
-Remember Ashbringer Crystal was Void before being a source of Light.

Calling “misinterpret” the actual consistency, denying the narrative established by the scene, and standing for the fanfic/forum myth, sure is quite astonishing.

I agree on this.
So the fact that the previous nature of the Sunwell is not of any importance for one’s peculiar RP background, and not even for Blizzard’s own consistency or constancy on the matter, puzzles me the most when I read the bad-faith replies from the mogul now and then.

If I were to decide, I’d just explain the Cult of the Sun, Belore-An’she, and go full solar religion, but that is not the way Blizzard seems to follow for now, and I acknowledge it.

No - At most, I just prefer the “was holy Light before” version because it consolidated the story, making it more satisfying narratively: the sunwell was desecrated, then re-sacralized, with some painful path to get the “statu quo ante bellum”.

The “was not holy before” version implies more transformative/(post)modernist lore approach.
But this transforming society is not even excluded by the “was holy before” version of the story, since the Naaru Sacrifice is already a strengthening of the source of Light, surpassing the previous era, which justifies new Light-leaning lore and marks (like the golden eyes).

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I would happily call out the narrative of the scene for what it is, a narrative whilst retaining the fact of the body. You were also shown - with official proof - that it is not fanfic/forum myth.

That you handily ignored.

I don’t challenge your passion for your interpretation, I challenge your flipping of everyone else just because it happens to be yellow spoken by a Priest.

This was what I legitimately thought as well. You can employ praise and reverence to something without automatically attributing it into the Light in some transformative measure. And if it did, we’d have sufficient evidence that says that.

Not because some theist said it was just so.

14

Transformative as redemption stories tend to be, sure, but I’m not sure I see it as necessarily modernist. Indeed, it seems like a hardly even veiled Christian allegory to me, with the Naaru deliberately allowing itself to be abused, and still sacrificing itself for their betterment, making them “see the light”, and turn away from sin in reverence. Not particularly modern.

That doesn’t mean that giving them the story was a good idea, but let’s not mix the specific writing flaws up.

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Agreed. It is such a silly topic to begin with.

What’s there to discuss, exactly? Would a forum post like this be posted if it was Lor’themar saying theocratic sentences? I really don’t get it.

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“the Sunwell: the magnificent heart of their society, a nurturing source of mystical energies, and a seemingly inexhaustible fount of arcane power.”
Blood of the Highborne

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Why people relentlessly try to explain it was a source of Arcane while the matter is that it was a source of Light too?

I don’t get it.

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Because the Lore never stated this. It was originally pure arcane. The Highborne has named it “the Sunwell” after their leader - Dath’Remar Sunstrider. Not because “it was always arcane and holy light “ - it was restored at the end of the Burning Crusade. Since then is both.

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The lore never stated this.

Source ?

Source ?

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Unfortionately it is not, every single expansion since it, even the war within, had atleast one if not several “HEY REMEMBER SHADOWLANDS? IT TOTALLY HAPPENED BY THE WAY” moments.

It’s not decanonized until Blizzard says it is, no matter how much we desire it to be.

Sorry but to claim that the sunwell was always light over a bunch of things that happened very recently in the timeline so most of the things that imply the sunwell was holy before reignition I’m going to treat that the same as Midnights revantusk not being horde suddenly: blizzard not getting their own lore straight.

If the sunwell was even partly holy, I strongly doubt Arthas could’ve used it to create a lich, we know necromancy is a school of arcane too.