Warriors VS. Other Classes :

I want to use several rude words towards for this faulty argument and I know where you’re coming and that you need to have a narrative that you’re superior because else you would be inferior.

I play a Warrior full time. My skill with a hunter would be low, I have been ganked by hunters on solo that did this and those people are far better with the hunter than I am. Theoretical knowledge is different from practical knowledge and while I hav great theoretical knowledge of being handed my behind to me by a Hunter I would need a lot of experience to actually pull it off.

This is a faulty argument of “if it’s so easy you should do it!” that’s often levied towards critics by people who unable to even provide criticism.

Your own argument literally was that gear, damage and anything nummerical didn’t matter because a hunter would never be touched by a fury warrior.

I too play warrior as my otp, but I have no need to feel superior. I accept that there are some things I’m not better at, and is the reason I won’t start lecturing you about M+.
I don’t bring forth my arguments because I wish you silence yours, I’m saying my opinion because it carries more experience than yours, and many other warriors that are better than me have the same opinion. Just like how a better warrior than me has the same opinion in this very thread.

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I have no problem in killing other classes to be honest.
If you are failing at the class and do not know how and when to pop your CD’s , then no amount of patches to a class and no class change re-roll will ever help you. You will still be posting same gibberish on other class forums most probably.
Learn to play please.

Coming from a warrior to a sin rogue I was astonished on how quickly a rogue can delete a warrior in wpvp.
The only chance a warrior has is to kill mobs for the health spell.

The warrior’s lack of survivability is also in pve where there are situations the warrior’s survival is 100% in the hands of a healer and we can do nothing about it directly.

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World pvp isn’t built for 1v1 pvp it’s made so u can attack the enemy faction. It’s just there so many inactive now that it happens you can get into 1v1s

I rarely see duels in Warmode it’s generally a flood of players wrecking players in the zone

Yeah, none of that matters if you’re never able to touch the target. Do you know the RPG saying “I don’t need to outrun the troll I just need to outrun you”? Doing massively well is irrelevant when all it takes is to just do better than the other.

According to the previous arguments, you must be bad at playing a Warrior because surely they would never delude themselves based on their own faulty memories and subjective narratives.

Funnily enough, all the other classes have a chance when it does come to 1v1 wPvP. This argument only seems to apply when it comes to Warriors. Surely you would never be biased?

Anyone who is trying to look cool , please inform us how as a Warrior you beat :

A DK ( any spec )
A DH
A Paladin
and many other classes , you are the weakest class 1v1 and will always be the target in 3v3 unless your partner is a ret or you are against noobs

Also , 1v1 , 2v2 , or 3v3 , a Warrior has the weakest survival tool and CANNOT heal them self unlike Paladins , Dks , Locks , Spriests , etc .

So the question is :

Why do blizz hate Warriors this much ? this is the 3rd expansion now were warriors are losing to majority of the 12 classes available in this game , this is not them being careless or not caring , this is a design that they WANT

Warriors are directly weaker in a 1v1
but directly stronger then others with a personal Healer.

Warriors are not good at dueling, and Yes waay more dependant on a Healer present, but their SUPER strong once in that enviroment and its been that way for a long time now…

Warriors do seem to get fighting for More self-reliability. but it doesnt seem blizzard has any want to directly change this… mainly because they dont care for 1v1 pvp and never have, nor has balance abided by it… Some classes just naturally fit 1v1 settings more due to their nicht and role.

and this has been an argument much longer then just 3 expansions.

Biased? Lol… i have 0 reason to be Biased, i dont remember the last time i actually attacked a Alliance passing :stuck_out_tongue:

and no they dont have a “chance” when it comes to 1v1 WPVP, in 1v1 its rock paper scissors as hell and Generally your gonna die to your counters. Some classes naturally do really well 1v1WPVP… some dont… its existed in this same way since the release of WoW.

Warriors have lacked the Ability to 1v1 for MANY years now, and blizzard have no intention to balance classes on 1v1 measures… it aint biased, its simply the truth its not about “right or wrong” or “if they should”… its a case of they wont and accepting it

Warriors are Stronger then alot of classes once they have a Healer behind them… which balances it out realistically, Group pvp has always Been the major focus realistically Sadly, when u balance around the concept of Group pvp, 1v1 generally goes out the window… but thats the cost of playing a game that divides its balance between both pve and pvp.

WPVP throws out alot of scaling and more put in and more… which has always made WPVP the least balanced Form of PvP when it comes to 1v1s.buffs and nerfs inside WPVP would directly affect PvE situations… which cant take a Backburner for WPVP in a PvE orintated game.

Rogues do really well in 1v1, they also do really well in organised PvP. Keeping to the rock, paper, scissors analogy they would be Spock. Mages are also a Spock and so are healers. Either Blizzard have to keep slavishly to the rock, paper, scissors model or they have to abandon it. Keeping it for some while removing it for others just creates a mess.

That used to be the case a few expansions ago. Right now the healer is better served to throw their healing elsewhere since every other class has better survivability tools than Warriors. Warriors used to have a noticeable HP advantage over other Classes. Then that was more normalised to be more in line with other the HP of other Classes and to compensate fór that reduction some of the survival tools Warrior’s had also got taken away.

So now I often run into other classes with the same damage and more health than me while they have around the same ilvl. And since spell damage ignores armour, and most damage ignores armour, Warriors have effectively less health than most other Classes.

Yeah, a healer behind a Warrior makes them stronger because of the health advantage they no longer have. Perhaps if Warriors were the only Class that applied some percentage of armor reduction to reducing the spell damage taken.

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Best melee in PvE (Raiding and M+): Rogue/DH (Fury does good when it comes to raiding though)
Best melee in PvP: Rogue

For warrior players it often feels like
,If I played DH I could have done this"
,If I played Rogue I would have done this way more easily"
Playing Warrior/ other melee in this meta feels like a matter of heart, you play it because of love for the class not because its good
You handicap yourself but you still just love playing it because its warrior or because its enhancement (or anything else which is not rogue/dh)

Wait they removed it?.. I remember in Legion it was Still a Great strength, i watched Plenty of Bajheera Streams and more and he was doing Super strong with a Healer behind him.

there are several factors we ignoring here though.

theres Seperate balancing in Instanced PvP which Doesnt apply to WPVP.
theres Seperate Caps and Scaling in Instanced PvP which doesnt apply to WPVP.

in Instanced PvP atleast last time i checked, Rogues Played a Pure Utility role, and their DPS in themselves wasnt incredibly High in WPVP this doesnt exist.

but to throw Nerfs into the PvE Community for WPVP… would do more harm then good and would do Damage to the meta, currently classes seem reasonably close to one another in overall DPS… but changes made to appease WPVP… would likely throw this back wide open.

WPVP is intentionally Not balanced, it has 0 effect from Any of the pvp balancing thats taken place…

I think it was in WoD or something like that. I saw several boomkins in Legion had significantly more HP than I did.

If you think Rogues are for utility in PvP then it’s either ages since you’ve done any kind of instanced PvP or the Rogues you meet are limiting themselves.

Except no, if Warriors were too strong in 1v1 they were nerfed in ways that had significant impact on their ability to PvE. Paladins were too weak in general so they’ve been changed and that had a great effect on their PvP viability. Etc, etc. There are several instances of classes being tweaked for PvE that have had large effects on their PvP performance. Warriors are the only class that has been nerfed in PvP that has had a significant impact on their PvE performance.

Outside of the burst bomb Arms have had their damage pr. hit reduced significantly to the point where MS is a distant third on damage after Deep Wounds and Execute in that order. This was done due to people complaining about their performance in PvP and 1v1. Namely that they wrecked them if they made a mistake. This is a PvP balance that has greatly affected their PvE viability and it has in turn also greatly affected their PvP viability as Absorb Shields are better than normal against DoTs. And when your main damage is DoT a strong Absorb Shield with a low CD can be easily recast without you doing any damage to the caster outside of lucky crits.

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Paladins have also been struggling in PvE… they warranted buffs In PvE when they got their changes… the changes were to make them viable in PvE. ur talking about one of the WEAKEST classes in PvE… litterally… Rets been low to bottom pack for 2 expansions now… they’re IN NEED of buffing.

and yes its been a long while… I quit 3 weeks into BFA and returned very recently.

but information from guides etc etc on Rogues, Say “Few Defensive cooldowns”… “needs help from Teammates”… “weak v teams with 2 Melee”.

ur forgetting Rogues were also nerfed in quite a few Defensive Cooldowns Also, they did also lose some of them, and they were also Pruned. and Rogues are considered to have very predictable burst windows.

Top 100 Leaderboards

have as many rogues on it As Warriors, not only this… but Also have Great variation across Almost ALL classes on it. so pushing “MAJOR IMBALANCES ON INSTANCE PVP” isnt exactly true.

When talking Instanced PvP… top 100s, Leaderboards and Information… Really Doesnt show Rogues being this much Stronger in STRUCTURED PvP instances.

In WPVP… u can 1 shot each other, It was Massively done through legion… it can MASSIVELY be done in BFA. theres even imbalances where under 116s can absolutely annihilate 120s.

if the Instanced PvP settings are so Imbalanced, Why are there so much variation in classes on that list, and yeah a Rogue is number 1, by NINE POINTS.

theres Warriors throughout 2v2s 3v3s and 10v10s, in 10v10s theres a Warrior in Second place.

And While arms has Specifically been nerfed in ways that impacted PvE yes, but i do think that Blizzard Bias Behaviours towards Fury in PvE are the cause of that more then anything.

blizzard has Done nothing but MAKE SURE fury is the stronger PvE Specc… Look at legion, Arms WAS a top DPS in PvE, until blizzard Nerfed em enough for Fury to be lead again.

Lets not pretend, blizzard Doesnt nerf things in PvE just to make their Wanted specc to the be strongest.

in Legion. they nerfed Outlaw to keep Assassination at top, they Actively Ignore Sub to keep the other 2 Above them,

hunters, Actively ignore their Survival PvE State…

This exists in everytime… Look at DKs, Unholy was a leader, til they for no reason Nerfed the Specc and continously Fed into making Frosts BoS Specc the strongest going.

BLizzard Nerf EVERY Specc they DONT want in the top 10 DPS. they’ve Actively Ensured Certain Speccs forever out DPS their Alternatives.

I do not deny, I think warriors could Benefit from having a Rework, which gives alittle bit more Flexibility in survivability nad more, because their current set up has Left to fall short in Some situations… and hopefully unpruning and Reapplying abilitys back to class above Specc. will give Warriors that. and i do think blizzard favors Some Speccs over the other. but that does include fury… blizzard have done nothing but ram that down the warirors throat that ITS ALL ABOUT FURY… which has caused Arms to take Un-needed nerfs to ensure furys the bigger DPS>

Rets also not that good but its not considered a bottom tier spec atm after the buffs they received in 8.1
Arms Warrior has been weak in raiding since Legion I think (expept ToS and Uldir) and lately was even at the bottom dps-wise in both BoD and CoS

I mean Assassination Rogues are widely considered OP in BFA PvP
2 Rogues in Blizzcon 2018 Top 3
Rogue winning Blizzcon this year

The under 116s annihilating 120s thing is wrong
The power level increase is way too high for that
I think it was possible when BFA launched and when there were scaling issues

To be fair, as a fury I beat EVERY class in wpvp, I never have any problem and sometimes even win 1v2-3s.

As arms, I lose most of the fights unless I kill something in my nuke, and that something has to be an unsuspecting player half afk or with no cooldowns.

Which ever dev that thought arms warrior deals too much burst damage and to rein that in we will shift the damage to bleeds needs to take a long hard look at warlock 70% hp chaos bolts, mage shatters, Ret pala’s lol damage.

Just because arms is balanced and above middle of the pack in 3v3 arenas they are suffering in Raids, M+, Wpvp, Bgs and duels. trash design.

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There’s no denying Paladins needed something as they were so bad. What they got were the things that Warriors had and Arms Warriors in return to what Ret Paladins had, sans the bubbles

Are heavily skewed. If I look at Rogues most or all are Assassination. If one spec is 100% represented in an aspect of the game then there’s something wrong with the power level of the spec, namely that it’s too high.

This is a faulty argument as every other spec has had their burst and regular damage improved despite them having no need of it while Arms had their’s reduced.

Heavily Skewed?.. they’re all assassination because its the Strongest Specc in Structured PvP… the ones who arent using the Best specc arent gonna reach top 100.

“if one specc is 100% Representation its too strong” or The other 2 are too weak, its rather bias to assume it needs nerfing in comparison.

Outlaw is Horrific PvP Wise… it relies on MASSIVE CDs to do any damage and Vast amounts of RNG to perform to Maximise its Damage… how will anything on a RNG Performance work PvP Wise.

Sub has Sucked Since its Rework, its been Reduced so much where its Damage isnt worthwhile… and Again Relies on HUGE CDs to push Damage out.

Assassination has access to poisons which Can reduce healing Movement speed and more, it offers the most uitlity in these sides… with Bleeds and more which keeps Pressure applied. Its not that its too strong… the other 2 Are just too weak in a PvP Setting.

Outlaw is a Pure PvE Specc relying on Pure RNG to perform…

Sub sucks balls in all play, although they did have a OP Opener in the beta until it was NErfed

we know how blizzard Works… Lump the balancing into 1 Specc and Screw the other 2… its how blizzard Simplify the balancing needed over a Expansion as they cant handle 36 specc balancing.

Sadly thats how the game works, they’ll balance Every class by using one specc avaliable to them… buff that in line and leave the other 2 to fall off the planet popularity wise for the expansion… then next expansion shift that over to the other specc.

should arms be nerfed til we see More Fury warriors in top 100? As they are all Arms currently…

Under this logic, we’d have our top specc Nerfed every patch… as the 100% 1 Specc identity will forever exist, 1 specc will mathmatically be Stronger then other speccs and even if its by 0.2% the playerbase will take it.

ALOT of the time… its actually because the other speccs arent strong enough :stuck_out_tongue:

It only takes a Small amount of Sight on rogue to reliese the other 2 Speccs Just dont fit PvP due to Design… Outlaw isnt designed for PvP in the slightest… and Sub is just wrecked… and is already been discussed as a Concern by Devs… because how badly its now flopped.

The argument should be Strongest Spec by far in PvP. This spec is so strong at PvP that the other specs are asking to be that good as the single target damage of Assassination is beyond phenomenal.

Arms is better for PvP than Fury to the practical mechanics of PvP rather than the mechanics of the spec.

Different kits excel at different content.
Assassination is the desired PvP spec because it brings the strongest healing reduction baseline and bypasses armor with poisons and bleeds.
Outlaw in theory has a superior kit to assassaination, but has no pressure damage at all due to the above.

What RMX would pass up free 15% haste, Crimson Vials, Gouge, shorter blind CD and ranged Kidney? Everyone because outlaw has no pressure.

Does this mean outlaw is bad? Ask the M+ community and they’ll most likely crave nerfs for the spec.