We Miss Old Survival hunter and Why it should be back

Classes Hunter
64

We all have different opinions on what should’ve happened. Should we have gotten a 4th spec? Should they have made BM the melee spec instead and kept SV as it was - ranged? Should they have merged the MM spec with hunters being able to talent into what essentially was SV back then? Etc.

Out of all these suggestions, my vote originally went towards putting it into Marksmanship via talents. I’ve created topics on this in the past and given my reasoning as to why this could be the easier option given the situation we’re in today. .

I’m sure the devs thought a lot on how to proceed going into Legion. And the choices made between updating the ranged Survival spec(giving it the same fantasy-overhaul as the other 2 specs got) or going the direction they did in the end with giving us the Melee-version.

Now, having said all this. I would VERY MUCH love to see a playable version of the past, ranged survival spec we had pre-Legion.
For anyone who wants to, below you’ll find my thoughts/ideas on what I wanted for Survival, in case we would’ve gotten a spec fantasy-based version like all other specs got overhauled in Legion.

These thoughts below have been compressed into clickable “tabs” for the sake of readability. Remember that any specific numbers written are just there to give context. Obviously some tuning would be required to make it work in-game.

Why did I do this? For fun.

Core abilities

Core abilities
Cobra Shot - A fast shot that deals X% of weapon damage as Physical damage.
Generates 7 Focus. Instant cast.

Explosive Shot - You fire an explosive charge into the enemy target, dealing Fire damage. The charge will blast the target every second for an additional 4sec.
2 charges. 10 sec recharge.

Serpent Sting - Fire a shot that poisons your target, causing them to take Nature damage over 15 sec.

Black Arrow - Fires a Black Arrow at the target, dealing Shadow damage over 12 sec.

Quick Shot - Deals X% weapon damage as Physical damage. Costs 25 Focus.

Immolation Trap - When triggered, causes periodic Fire damage to the target over 20 seconds. 1 minute cooldown.
Note: Some talent choices affect how often you can use it along with what it does.

Multi-Shot - Fires several missiles, hitting your current target and all enemies within 8 yards for X% weapon damage as Physical damage.
Multi-Shot applies the Serpent Spread(Passive) -effect to all targets hit.

Note: The idea is that this is not something you use constantly but only as a way to maintain Serpent Sting on multiple targets.

Major cooldowns

Major Cooldown(s)
Rapid Fire - Increases your haste by X%, and on use, grants a charge of Explosive Shot(triggers Lock & Load).

While Rapid Fire is active, the first hit of Explosive Shot when cast will reset the remaining cooldown of Black Arrow, and the periodic damage effect applied by Black Arrow can now stack up to 3 times.

If you, during Rapid Fire, use Explosive Shot on an enemy affected by Black Arrow, then each explosion from the charge will cause the toxin to spread to other nearby enemies.
Rapid fire lasts for 20 seconds. 2 minute cooldown.

Due to some recent feedback, I’ve decided to add a replacement for the DoT-spread mechanic of Rapid Fire, when in instanced PvP.

Your Explosive Shot will no longer be able to automatically spread any periodic damage effect caused by Black Arrow. Instead, you now have an additional passive effect that is always active, regardless of if your Rapid Fire is or isn’t.

If your Black Arrow is at any time dispelled or otherwise removed from an enemy target, you will instantly gain a free charge of Black Arrow.

Note: This is not a CD reset mechanic. This works like Lock and Load does for Explosive Shot, that it would add an extra charge of Black Arrow on top of what you already have.

Mastery Bonuses/Ideas

Mastery Bonus Ideas

(1) Mastery Bonus: Neurotoxin
Black Arrow has a chance, based on your Mastery, to instantly be applied with 2-3 stacks.
In addition, any abilities used by the hunter that deals periodic damage will have an increased chance to cause a critical hit on targets below 20% health. Also based on your Mastery.

Example: Lets say you have 30% Mastery. This means that Black Arrow would have a 30% chance to instantly be applied with 2-3 stacks on the enemy target. At all times, not just during Rapid Fire.
And, all abilities/effects you have that deals periodic damage, would have a 30% increased chance to critically hit any target below 20% health remaining.

(2) Mastery Bonus: Mixologist
Elemental Damage increased by an amount equal to your mastery.
(Any damage caused that is not Physical damage. Meaning: Arcane, Fire, Frost, Nature or Shadow-based).

Passive effects

Passive effects
Lock and Load - Periodic damage caused by Black Arrow and Immolation Trap have a chance to add 1 extra charge of Explosive Shot which will consume no focus when fired.

Note: Getting a proc from Lock & Load, won’t affect the base re-charge system of Explosive Shot.
Example: If you have 2 charges of Explosive Shot available and you get a L&L-proc, you will then have 3 charges. 1 of which costs no Focus.
Keep in mind that L&L has a limited duration.
When the buff expires, so does any extra charge(s) that you haven’t yet used.

Enhanced Traps/Trap Mastery
-Gain the Immolation Trap ability.

-Tar applied by Tar Trap can now be set on fire by Immolation Trap, causing any enemy who stands in it to take increasing damage over time for it’s duration/as long as the enemy stands in it.

-The trigger radius as well as the radius of the effect on your Tar Trap is increased by 25%.

-Freezing Trap can now be triggered manually by the hunter once placed, causing it to form a fragile Ice Block that you can stand behind to protect yourself from frontal attacks until shattered.
The ice block shatters after 8 seconds or once it has taken enough damage.
Manually triggering it requires you to stand in close vicinity to the trap.

Steady Focus - Using Cobra Shot several times in a row will increase the amount of focus gained from each shot by 4. Stacking up to 3 times.

Serpent Spread - Targets hit by Multi-Shot are also afflicted by Serpent Sting equal to 9 sec of it’s duration.

Exotic Munitions - Your auto attacks have a chance to increase the remaining duration of either Serpent Sting, Black Arrow or Immolation Trap by 5 seconds on an enemy affected by either of these periodic damage effects.

Note: When a proc occurs, it can only increase the duration of one the above mentioned periodic damage effects at a time.

Other abilities

Other abilities
Aspect of the Turtle - Works like it currently does on live.
Aspect of the Cheetah - Works like it currently does on live.
Exhilaration - Works like it currently does on live.
Call Pet - Works like it currently does on live.
…along with other abilities such as Counter Shot, Concussive Shot, Mend Pet and more…

Talents

Talents
-Level 15-
T.N.T - If Explosive Shot is used on an enemy already affected by a previous charge, the charge’s remaining duration is refreshed as well as increased by an additional 3 seconds. An active charge can only have a max duration of 9 seconds.

Exotic Munitions-procs now also increase the remaining duration of any active Explosive Shot charge you have on the current target by 3 seconds.

Toxicology - Increases the periodic critical damage of your Serpent Sting and Black Arrow by 25%, and Serpent Sting now deals ever increasing damage against targets below 30% health.

Dire Frenzy - Replaces Quick Shot. Causes your pet to enter a frenzy, performing a flurry of 5 attacks on the target.
This will enrage your pet, and if Dire Frenzy is cast again before the Enrage fades, the damage dealt is increased by 100%. Enrage lasts for 12 seconds.
3 charges. 8 second recharge time. Costs 35 Focus. Requires an active pet.

-Level 30-
Death Adder - Any time Serpent Sting is applied, it will also deal an additional 20% of it’s total damage instantly.
Also applies to Serpent Spread(Passive). In addition, every time Serpent Sting deals damage, you have a chance to gain 3 focus.

If the passive effect “Exotic Munitions” procs while your Serpent Sting is active on the target, then this will also trigger the Death Adder-effect.
Requires the Death Adder-talent.

Alpha Predator - Whenever your pet hits an enemy, it gains 2% increased attack speed.
When at or above 30% increased attack speed, your pet’s attacks have a high chance (equal to the amount of increased attack speed) to automatically trigger a Dire Frenzy attack. Also triggering the Enrage-effect. Requires an active pet.
When a Dire Frenzy attack occurs, you instantly gain 10 Focus but lose the increased attack speed on your pet.

Note: Using the ability Dire Frenzy(the talent) will not grant you the extra Focus, nor will it cause your pet to lose the increased attack speed.
The interaction between this talent and the Dire Frenzy-talent above is the ability to more easily maintain the Enrage buff on your pet.

Viper Venom - Every time Serpent Sting deals damage, there is a chance that your next Serpent Sting will consume no focus and deal 75% additional damage over it’s duration.
This effect can stack up to 4 times but will be consumed the next time Serpent Sting is used.

Note: This talent does not provide you with extra focus if picked. The goal is that, if you have this talent then basically all casts of Serpent Sting will be free.

-Level 45-
Utility talents, same as on live: Trailblazer, Natural Mending, Camouflage.

-Level 60-
Ferocious Inspiration - Dire Frenzy now deals damage to all nearby enemies.

Note: Dire Frenzy-attacks that proc thanks to the Alpha Predator-talent, will benefit from Ferocious Inspiration as well. The talent Dire Frenzy, is not required for Ferocious Inspiration to affect Alpha Predator.

Wildfire - The periodic damage effect applied by Immolation Trap will now spread to any enemy standing in close range to an already burning target.
As long as an enemy is within range of another enemy affected by Wildfire or Immolation Trap, the Wildfire will continue to spread.
Will ignore CC’d targets. Wildfire lasts for 8 seconds.

Ever Burning - Explosive Shot now deals damage to all enemies near your primary target.

-Level 75-
Utility talents, same as on live: Born to be Wild, Posthaste, Binding Shot.

-Level 90-
Spitting Cobra - Cobra Shot now extends the remaining duration of Serpent Sting on the enemy target by X sec, up to a max of 15 seconds.
In addition, Cobra Shot now has a high chance of generating double Focus when fired.

Note: You can continue to extend the duration of any Serpent Sting-debuff for as long as you want to. However, you can not manually extend the duration of a Serpent Sting-debuff above the baseline 15 second duration.

Pre-Heat - The cooldown of Immolation Trap is reduced by 5 seconds every time Immolation Trap deals critical damage to the enemy target.
In addition, if an enemy target dies while affected by Immolation Trap, it’s CD is reset.

This effect only applies to the enemy who triggers your Immolation Trap.
Not to enemies affected by Wildfire(talent).

Intoxication - Your ranged Auto Attacks have a chance to grant you 2 stacks of Intoxication. Lasts for X seconds.
When Black Arrow expires on an enemy, you gain this effect as well.

  • Intoxication
    Causes your abilities that deal instant damage, to be guaranteed critical strikes.
    And causes your abilities that deal periodic damage to last for an additional X seconds, and critical damage caused by these abilities is increased by an additional X%.

-Level 100-
Rapid Recuperation - Every time your pet hits an enemy with it’s Basic Attack(Bite, Claw, Smack), the remaining cooldown of Rapid Fire is reduced by 2 seconds.
During Rapid Fire, each of your pet’s Basic Attacks have a chance to hit one additional time while consuming no extra focus.

Catalysis - When Black Arrow deals damage to an enemy target, damage caused by Explosive Shot against that enemy is increased by 10%.
In addition, when one of your abilities deal Fire damage to an enemy affected by Black Arrow, you have a chance to gain this effect as well.
This effect lasts for X seconds. Stacks up to 10 times.

Resourcefulness - Reduces the cooldown of all traps and Black Arrow by 20%. Your Freezing Trap and Tar Trap both have a 100% chance to proc Lock & Load when triggered.

Freezing Trap when triggered manually can no withstand 100% more incoming damage before shattering.

When an enemy breaks free from your Freezing Trap, they will take an additional 10% damage from all sources for the next X seconds.

Critical hits from Immolation Trap causes an additional X% damage to the affected target.

NEW! - Set Bonus effects/Bonus Traits

Got no good names for these traits/bonuses yet but…

Just wanted to add in some potential fun bonus effects that are spec specific. They can be tied to things such as Set Bonuses or something similar to Artifact Traits/Azerite Traits.
In what way we can get these, depends on what e.g. progression-system we get ofc.

Examples:

(1) Lock and Load now grants 2 charges of Explosive Shot when it procs, instead of 1.

(2) When you get a Exotic Munitions-proc. It will grant you an additional bonus effect depending on which periodic damage-effect it benefits.

Serpent Sting - Until the current Serpent Sting debuff expires or is refreshed, every time it deals damage to the target, you instantly gain 3 Focus.

Black Arrow - The remaining cooldown on Black Arrow is instantly reset.

Immolation Trap - Your next Immolation Trap will deal an extra X% damage and will also have an increased X% chance to critically hit the affected target.

(3) Your Mastery Bonus: Neurotoxin’s secondary effect now applies to enemies below 30% health remaining, up from 20%.
Note: This bonus effect might have to be set to enemies below 25%(or even 35%) health remaining, instead of 30%. This depends on balancing ofc.

Edits/changes

Edits/changes

  • Modified the “tooltips” for certain talents above to make it more clear what they are supposed to do.
  • Changed the name of the talent: “Boiling Blood” into “Pre-heat”.
    Previously it said that Explosive Shot critical strikes have a chance to reduce the CD on Immolation Trap. It has now been changed to: Periodic damage caused by Immolation Trap have a high chance to reduce it’s remaining CD by 5 seconds.
  • Added a few things to the Major Cooldown ability: Rapid Fire such as extra haste as well as clarifying it’s duration and cooldown time.
  • Added 2 ideas to potential Mastery bonus effects for the spec. The first one giving a base increase to Elemental Damage is what we used to have as Survival back in Warlords of Draenor(WoD). The second idea is new.
  • Talent: “Cobra Commander” was removed in favor of a new talent called: “Catalysis”.
  • Talent: Resourcefulness, no longer reduces the CD on traps + Black Arrow by 5 seconds. Instead it reduces the CD on them by 20%.
    Note: the change to percentage should still equal roughly a 5sec CD reduction on Black Arrow. On traps with a base CD of 30 seconds, this should equal a 6sec CD reduction. And on Immolation Trap that has a 1min base CD, this equals a 12sec CD reduction.
  • Clarified how the Core Abilities would work.
    Changed the design of the Spitting Cobra-talent.
    Cobra Shot is now the baseline focus builder instead of Steady Shot.
    Changed the design of the talent “The Beast Within”. It’s now called “Intoxication”.
  • Added an additional Passive Effect to Tar Trap(increased radius of effect). Thanks to feedback given.
  • Clarified a bit what the Intoxication-talent is meant to give you.
  • Added a new tab: Set Bonus effects/Bonus Traits
  • An additional effect/replacement has been added to the major CD: Rapid Fire. Purpose is for Instanced PvP. Thanks to recent feedback given.
  • The talent Resourcefulness has been altered so Freezing Trap no longer grants increased damage if triggered manually.
    The talent now gives other additional effects.
1 Like
65

I would just like it to be melee and ranged we have pure archer a beast master, now let us do both melee and ranged, makes sense, a mixture of old style and new stlye.

I do love the cureenr sv though

66

I think bm must be melee spec and surv must be dual pistol…But hey it’s my dream :slight_smile:

67

I hope they would keep the current one and give old back as a 4th. Current survival spec might be the most fun spec in the game and i hate it because i know it wont survive to the next expansion for blizzard loves taking fun out of the game and changing things just for the sake of changing.

68

Ranged SV was about those dots, and the weaving through
the rich mechanics of the spec. It was mobile, and even a
die hard MM like me loved it. Sometimes I was MM and
some I was SV, I’d love for both and respect for both.

Now we’ve only got MM which is a turret spec, in a game
that seems only to want to make us move all the time.

Sure yeah I know there’s BM too, but I’d not touch that
with a ten foot pole. I’ll not disparage BM, it’s not for me
is all.

I spent most of TBC as SV, which at the time was effectively
a lowish dps spec that provided certain buffs to other DPS.
Melee worshipped me, so much in fact that I never got cut
once from a raid.

Too much of the time from players and devs we hear about
class fantasy. The hell with that, I want to see some power
fantasy. I want to feel powerful, competitive and useful.

Once upon a time SV was a viable ranged spec, that was fun
and powerful. Or at the very least like in TBC, lent itself to
support in a fun manner.

I’d love to see it ranged, but it won’t happen. Developer hubris
won’t allow an idea, to be reversed. No matter how much we
dislike it. Sure there’s folks who love melee SV, I sympathise
with them. But my sympathy is stronger, for those like me who
recall a very mobile ranged spec.

Perhaps we’d not feel so sore about it, if MM was fun and mobile.

But it’s not like they ever listen to Hunters, least of all on a EU
forum.

69

If we look at the situation today though, the easiest thing would be to remake some talents in the MM spec and replace others with the ranged Survival core abilities we had(as they were prior to Legion).

Basically looking at the MM talent tree, you could have something like this:

-Level 15 talents-
You already have Serpent Sting present here.
The Master Marksman talent - Aimed Shot reduces the focus cost of your next Arcane Shot/Multi-Shot by 100%. Just add Explosive Shot to this as well, in case you don’t want to use Serpent Sting.

-Level 30 talents-
Explosive Shot is there, rework this talent/ability into being an ability that replaces Aimed Shot when picked. You get Explosive Shot as it used to be but with 2 charges(up from 1) and have a recharge time the same length as Aimed Shot currently has.
Explosive Shot is an instant cast ability, as opposed to Aimed Shot that has a cast time and req you to stand still when casting it.

-Level 60 talents-
Can esentially remain as they are.

-Level 90 talents-
Have the Double Tap talent reworked to include Explosive Shot.
Basically this: Your next Aimed Shot will fire a second time instantly at 100% power without consuming Focus.
If Talent: Explosive Shot is chosen, this will cause your next Explosive Shot fired to have it’s duration increased as well as having it’s focus cost reduced by 100%.

…or your next Rapid Fire will shoot 100% additional shots during it’s channel.

-Level 100 talents-
Here the best thing would be this(In my opinion):
The talent Lock and Load should be removed and made a baseline passive effect for the MM spec. AND, while the effect gives your auto shots a flat 5% chance to proc. This should also be added to be a part of your Mastery Bonus level so that the more mastery you have, the higher the chance to proc this effect would be.

And in the place of Lock and Load, you would now have the talent/ability Black Arrow for those that would want to use it.

On a personal note, something regarding Black Arrow as an ability you could add that would make it slightly more fun to play with would be this: Every time you use Aimed Shot/Explosive Shot, the cooldown of Black Arrow is reduced by 2 seconds. With Black Arrow having a base CD of about 30 seconds.

This last part is just something I would like to see. It does not have to be there but could be fun.

Note
The passive effect Precise Shots currently tied to proc with Aimed Shot. You can just include Explosive Shot here as well.

The same goes for Multi-Shot as it currently works for Marksmanship where if you use it, it can proc the passive effect: Trick Shots.

You would now have it do this: If Multi-Shot hits 3 or more targets your next Aimed Shot/Explosive Shot(if picked) or Rapid Fire will hit up to 5 additional targets for 50% damage.

Again, While I would prefer if we had a ranged Survival spec separate from the other specs, the above suggestions I guess would require the least amount of work and you could still get a playable version of the old Survival.

A big upside if you do this is the fact that you would now have a way to play MM without any movement restrictions at all. Again, just my opinion ofc.

2 Likes
70

Honestly there’s plenty there I’d like.

But in all honesty, more than anything I don’t want to be
a turret in a game seemingly fixated on making players
move. Mobility, would likely cancel out a lot of MM
power disparity. Not being tied to a spot to cast Aimed,
could make a hell of a difference all on it’s own.

71

Glad you liked it/some of it.

The current MM spec we have on live, I wouldn’t touch even if payed.
I’m not a fan of movement restricting abilities. Even though there aren’t really any fights in BfA where 100% mobility while doing damage has such a huge advantage.

I enjoy fighting with pets as a hunter, which is also why I currently play BM. But despite MM not really having anything to do with pets(other than you can have a pet with you while fighting), IF we would get the implementation of ranged Survival’s core abilities, I would instantly switch over simply because I loved that style.

On a note, I should probably add something I missed in my above post.

MM does have Trueshot as a major CD.
Currently when activated it grants you a charge of Aimed Shot and increases your haste by 30%.
With ranged Survival in mind, you can just add in Explosive Shot to benefit from 1 extra charge as well if picked. And while Aimed Shot would benefit more from the haste than Explosive Shot would, you could make it so that the periodic damage effect from Explosive Shot would deal damage at an increased rate during Trueshot(The DoT would tick more times during it’s uptime).

1 Like
72

one reason the old surv was so popular, was becuse it was the only spec realy viable on doing high enough dmg in raids, a major reason many used it, though it had lots of fun things to use also,

But for me it never realy felt like survival at all, more or of an trapp hunter whit elemental dmg, the new one again, is more of an survival hunter but not perfect still.

personaly Surv should be based arround high defence, skills that use the enviroment, like summon animals to fight for you, use water and fire to your advantage, like shooting ice bolts, firebolts, same as the old one, but instead of traps you have someting else that you use.

73

u are A REALL HUNTER thanks for standing with me BRIZ

1 Like
74

Haha, cheers Crazy!
Well, when you’re passionate about a specific class, it’s easy to figure out what you want out of it(IMO).

My one regret is that I stuck with my warrior in Vanilla and did not continue with my hunter until TBC hit. Once I got started with it for real, haven’t looked back since.

Due to this thread has become fairly large(with the perspective of EU forums), one can but hope that it gains enough attention. If we want the ranged SV playstyle, we really need to keep going at it. And more importantly, provide enough elaborate feedback as to how we would want it back, as, simply saying that they should remove Melee-survival in favor of the old spec. There is no point in doing this. They wont revert it. Best to find a new way to get it back.

2 Likes
75

No, just because you want a spec back doesn’t mean you should remove another one. I love MM, i want to keep it.

76

well, half of mm talents are useless anyway, if they can implement survival there imma be okay with it, we have no choice anyway might as well have survival in the talents

77

I never said that this is what they should do with MM.
What I said was that MM provides a fairly simple way for us to get the old Survival back while still keeping the 3 existing specs that we do have atm.

Serpent Sting already is in the MM talents. Explosive Shot as well, just that it’s no longer the ability we used to have(which I liked a whole lot more). Revert it to the previous version.
And for Black Arrow, the last talent row currently holds Lock & Load. I wanted us to get this talent as a baseline effect. And in it’s place they should put in Black Arrow.

The rest of the MM talents could easily be reworked to include benefits to for example Explosive Shot.

Anyways, I did post a reply a fair bit down in this thread, dno if you read it but it goes more in depth about what the MM talent tree could actually look like for this to work. While still having the current MM spec intact.

Here it is:

78

I was going to make an intelligent comment in this thread, but then I realized how many times this topic has been brought up, how many times it will be brought up in the future, and how depressing the endless cycle of forum complaining really is.

Therefore, I will only say this: WIbble wibble parp parp boing.

79

Alright ,sorry for the misunderstanding. This would work, but i still think that it should be a fourth spec. We all know that you pretty much get forced into certain talents, and lf those old SV talents were to outshine the MM ONES then MM players would be forced into taking the SV talents .

1 Like
80

I personally i love the new survival hunter.

I am all for a 4th spec being more akin to the old survival hunter (which i personally found boring).

I dont want anyone to lose something though just so others can gain.

No one wanted anyone to lose there old survival hunter, blizzard did that of their own volition. But dont be snide and entitled to ask them to remove the new survival (which i and many of my of friends and people in general enjoy) just so you can have what you want.

Ask for a 4th spec and the old survival to be it.

Everyone wins then.

81

No problem, it happens. The bigger threads get, the harder it will be to maintain a decent overview of specific subjects brought up within the threads.

Couldn’t agree with you more!
While, sadly, I doubt that we will actually see a fourth spec being added to the Hunter class, I also feel that this is the best solution to the issue. It would require a lot of work/time but in order to maintain the current specs as focused on what they are atm(their themes), you pretty much need that 4th spec.

We often see people argue that you should not remove melee survival in favor of bringing back the old ranged version because they want that option of having a melee-spec. And I agree. You shouldn’t.
But the thing is…
This is what happened with Legion. We lost the old Survival playstyle that one side of the player base liked in favor of something another side wanted.
So if you take a look at where we are now, how can we get the old spec back without making the experience worse for certain players? There is only 1 option really. A 4th spec.

There is a reason why one of the more popular topics on the forums contains the subject of giving us back the ranged Survival playstyle. People want it back.

And speaking of, I did a small edit in my above post regarding having ranged Survival as it’s own spec. Nothing to major but I switched out a talent for a new one to spice up the last talent row a bit more. Making it more diverse. Specifics can be found in the Edits/changes section. We Miss Old Survival hunter and Why it should be back - #64 by Briz-zenedar

Edit: found this thread on the US hunter forum. Like I said above, it’s a popular subject and has been for quite a while. Sadly, it seems as if this particular thread is getting a bit out of hand. https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/we-need-range-survival-hunters-back/169896?

2 Likes
82

We need Old survival back . 4th spec or whatever idea u wana put it in . just bring it back . + old damage numbers style . i dont mean the Text i mean the numbers how they appear in your Screen . with that old numbers i can stay hitting the dummy for 1 hour without getting bored.

2 Likes
83

yeah old survival hunter was so good.

1 Like