What changes would classic need in order for you to play fresh realms?

[Parrydodger-silvermoon]

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

hey didn’t implement that and gave multiple reasons.

Reasons that are subjective not objective.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

They don’t have full data from previous patches

what the old talent trees look like are known

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

they said they don’t want to change items that people have in bags out of nowhere just because phase changed, and class balancing

that’s part of a living, breathing MMO. People deal with it on retail, no reason they couldn’t handle it on classic.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

this is a restoration project.

a restoration project should surely restore exactly how classic was? not just 1/12th of it?

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

They aren’t altering it with “new” content.

As you suggest with the quotation marks, it isn’t new. It’s all nochanges, more nochanges then what we got.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Didn’t happened and they explicitly said why.

Again, which were subjective arguments not objective, I explain in the paragraph for this point what the downsides of blizz’ decision were and the upsides of doing it progressively.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

If it makes people use it then yes.

If it was necessary, why didn’t this feature exist for like 10 years? It was only necessary to cut on the need for customer service.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

It made it harder/more annoying.

No, it didn’t. Botters already run multiple accounts. Also, they can bot MANY other ways.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

On Chinese realms botting was killed by WoW token that lowered the RMT value of gold so bots went to NA and EU

this is just completely false. The wow token was put on chinese servers because it is part of their culture. The Asian gaming audience love spending on microtransactions to advance their character. Gold sellers even before the wow token existed always focused on EU and US servers because it is simply more profitable due to the dominance they can have over the market.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Would be nice, especially for TBC.

good, we can agree on something

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Not really… and Teremous is in Stormwind every day on one realm

Glad to hear that, I thought they patched it out by adding an anchor to mobs? Regardless, kazzak and blood plague sound more exciting to me. Just for a few weeks each or so, come on man, have some fun.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Even top WoW stream streaming bots and tweeting to Blizzard and getting large amount of players to participate wasn’t enough for Blizzard to take action on botting moonkins on retail. So no, it sadly won’t happen.

ik, just saying it is a necessary change

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Shorter. People on private servers tested halved phase duration (and on some shorter resets) and it was much more popular - tryhards had all the raids without overgearing while new and casual players nearly always had a fresh realm. Classic raids are boring as well…

bare in mind this change would ideally come with the other changes I listed so the raids would be harder for average guilds. Speed runners and trihards can wait, the game shouldn’t pander to them.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

They don’t even ban bots

poor indie company ofc…

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

By now people likely stopped treating Classic as “serious” and “hardcore” so if you want exact changes then likely you would have to make them yourself on your own server

problems there

1. I can’t code for sh*t
2. I’m broke
3. I live in UK so cease and desist would be on my a*s
4. I have no team

otherwise, I’d love to

[Bigkeg-twisting-nether (Bigkeg)]

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

Reasons that are subjective not objective.

But it’s their so they can do what they see fit and it will be The Law AFAIK some servers run with item progression but in the end it was dropped for technical/safety reasons and people didn’t quit

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

what the old talent trees look like are known

Knowledge of vanilla was revised multiple times by “it’s not a bug” and alike. Even when we know how talent trees looked we don’t know internals. There could be implementation changes not to mention that classes were redesigned over the course of Classic meaning that even existing talent that did not changed per text could be changed on the backend like cooldowns, proc algorithm etc.).

And early on there could be bugs or placeholders that we don’t know about.

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

that’s part of a living, breathing MMO. People deal with it on retail, no reason they couldn’t handle it on classic.

They don’t change items on retail in that way. In BfA trying to save azerite armor they didn’t even apply changes to existing items, only to newly dropped. That’s common practice for them.

You can have like pre-nerf Spirit of Aquamentas and what not but does it really change that much when sweaty guilds will hammer the raids anyway? How much excitement and freshness would it bring (a complex, unpredictable change) versus say disabling world buffs or having low realm pop limit that are way easy to implement and communicate?

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

a restoration project should surely restore exactly how classic was? not just 1/12th of it?

They restored something that happened to be on one backup drive But the core should be what MadSeasons talked about - nochanges 1.12 cause a lot of changes on how it was played and perceived (world buffs, BG queue, farming…) where as changes like disabling world buffs would bring it in line to how it was back then versus exact technical recreation.

Patch progression could have some charm to it, but it also brings complications. Doubt anyone would want patch progression for Cyberpunk or most other games - bugs, lack of balance, broken/incomplete systems etc.

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

this is just completely false. The wow token was put on chinese servers because it is part of their culture.

Whatever the reason was the side effect was that gold value there crashed which flooded our realms so we get extra amount of bots, not saying we didn’t had them before that. RMT exists because it’s profitable and in regions where it become less profitable it drove bots away.

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

Regardless, kazzak and blood plague sound more exciting to me. Just for a few weeks each or so, come on man, have some fun.

Ever heard of WoW “Fun Detected” meme? Blizzard != fun. I was kind of hoping they pull a trick and launch MC dealing frost instead of fire damage for a reset or two but we can’t have fun things in Blizzard games…

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

bare in mind this change would ideally come with the other changes I listed so the raids would be harder for average guilds. Speed runners and trihards can wait, the game shouldn’t pander to them.

The most interesting thing in Classic for my mage was leveling, early gearing, farming for guild scarab lord. Raids are trash and take to much time (on an average guild that can’t manage time properly). ZG is kind of fun (time, theme, fishing a boss) but that’s about it.

And be honest - Classic quickly became raidlogging due to no new stuff for long periods of time. If you halve the time then people won’t get bored that easily or will have a schedule pushing them forward.

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Theoretically if like they would prelaunch level-1 realms stated for TBC but with new races then I would want to see how this would play out:

• no world buffs
• raids do not drop gear
• bis crafting recipes (or all top level recipes) disabled
• top level/BiS epic BoE also disabled.

So how feasible it would be to raid with quest and BoE gear? Which classes and specs would become stronger/weaker etc. (skipping top level PvP gear as well). Bringing new meta and new theorycrafting

[Parrydodger-silvermoon]

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

But it’s their so they can do what they see fit and it will be The Law

So people who pay the sub can’t put in their opinion to the company? They don’t HAVE to do it the way they did, and could change it if there was enough demand. Not saying there is enough, but I made the thread to start that discussion.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

AFAIK some servers run with item progression but in the end it was dropped for technical/safety reasons and people didn’t quit

what are you on about?!?!?

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

There could be implementation changes not to mention that classes were redesigned over the course of Classic meaning that even existing talent that did not changed per text could be changed on the backend like cooldowns, proc algorithm etc.).

And early on there could be bugs or placeholders that we don’t know about.

well if blizzard have to fill in the blanks with educated guesses based on what the talents that we know exist say they do. So if something says ‘‘saves x rage per hit’’ then blizzard can use their coding knowledge to figure out how that talent PROBABLY functioned. This is good enough for me. If what the talent trees looked like wasn’t even known, then I’d agree with you.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

And early on there could be bugs or placeholders that we don’t know about.

As long as they aren’t game breaking, so be it.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

They don’t change items on retail in that way. In BfA trying to save azerite armor they didn’t even apply changes to existing items, only to newly dropped. That’s common practice for them.

wtf are u on about. I played back when CoS came out in BFA and I got the trident, for a week or so it was amazing in pvp, making me an absorb god as fury warr with additional leech then the next week, it was a complete waste of space. Blizzard absolutely completely alter items one day from the next. Many examples of this over the previous xpacs.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Patch progression could have some charm to it, but it also brings complications. Doubt anyone would want patch progression for Cyberpunk or most other games - bugs, lack of balance, broken/incomplete systems etc.

This isn’t cyberpunk

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Whatever the reason was the side effect was that gold value there crashed which flooded our realms so we get extra amount of bots, not saying we didn’t had them before that. RMT exists because it’s profitable and in regions where it become less profitable it drove bots away.

Ok, I don’t think I disagree with you but I don’t think combating gold sellers THAT way is worth ruining the spirit of classic through wow tokens.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Ever heard of WoW “Fun Detected” meme? Blizzard != fun. I was kind of hoping they pull a trick and launch MC dealing frost instead of fire damage for a reset or two but we can’t have fun things in Blizzard games…

Just because blizzard probs won’t do it doesn’t mean we can’t want them to do and ask them to do it. I wouldn’t want the xample u gave because that didn’t happen at all back in classic but blood plague and kazzak in stormwind did.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

f you halve the time then people won’t get bored that easily or will have a schedule pushing them forward.

for the high ends. However, there were plenty of guilds in classic even with these mega easy versions of classic raids, with 1.12.2 everything, still found the raids to be a challenge sometimes. Make them even harder and that wait time for the next patch might not feel so long for those players.

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Theoretically if like they would prelaunch level-1 realms stated for TBC but with new races then I would want to see how this would play out:

• no world buffs
• raids do not drop gear
• bis crafting recipes (or all top level recipes) disabled
• top level/BiS epic BoE also disabled.

So how feasible it would be to raid with quest and BoE gear? Which classes and specs would become stronger/weaker etc. (skipping top level PvP gear as well). Bringing new meta and new theorycrafting

I’m not sure I understand this idea.

[Bigkeg-twisting-nether (Bigkeg)]

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

This isn’t cyberpunk

Early patches were like Cyberpunk

They clearly ruled out making patch progression so this is a waste of time. Raw, unfinished, sometimes broken/unbalance just to prove something? Nobody cares about a Rag kill or classic sweaties these days.

Even if they wanted feedback for new fresh this is something that will not happen so it’s better to focus only on things that can happen.

[Sneakyfists-twisting-nether (Sneakyfists)]

I would also add on:
-Optional hardmodes for boss encounters (think Ulduar) that provide extra - and perhaps unique - loot and another layer of challenge.

-AoE spell cap (I.E take mages down a peg or three).

-WPvP dailies and side objectives that provide good PvP rewards, not strong enough to make them a mandatory chore alongside BGs, but enough to provide a good alternative for people who don’t want to do BGs.

-CLEAR warning on PvP servers about the nature of them to dissuade players who THINK they want to play on them but actually want to play on a PvE server.

-Entirely new PvP/PvE content, (if these things aren’t present then these changes are it’s just the exact same content but a little less broken).

[Parrydodger-silvermoon]

@Bigkeg-twisting-nether

Early patches were like Cyberpunk

They clearly ruled out making patch progression so this is a waste of time. Raw, unfinished, sometimes broken/unbalance just to prove something? Nobody cares about a Rag kill or classic sweaties these days.

Even if they wanted feedback for new fresh this is something that will not happen so it’s better to focus only on things that can happen.

I just fundamentally disagree with almost everything you said here so let’s just leave it at that

@Sneakyfists-twisting-nether

Optional hardmodes

I think the classic raids are not for retail level mechanics because of the boss rooms they’re in. Also, I don’t like difficulties. I say just nerf player power through progressive patches and consequently buff content that same way.

@Sneakyfists-twisting-nether

AoE spell cap

interesting idea…maybe but at the end of the day it is one of the perks of mages, part of classic kinda

@Sneakyfists-twisting-nether

WPvP dailies and side objectives that provide good PvP rewards

no

@Sneakyfists-twisting-nether

CLEAR warning on PvP servers about the nature of them to dissuade players who THINK they want to play on them but actually want to play on a PvE server.

sure why not if there’s somewhere to put that warning

@Sneakyfists-twisting-nether

Entirely new PvP/PvE content, (if these things aren’t present then these changes are it’s just the exact same content but a little less broken).

so classic+? Fair enough if that’s what u’d need to play it again, I’m looking for a more 2004-2006 experience just better done than first time around.

[Zano-doomhammer]

• No world buffs in instanced content (or raids at least)
• Much quicker action from Blizzard with regards to bots
• Melee leeway and spell batching removed
• AOE spell cap (coming in TBC anyway)

[Parrydodger-silvermoon]

almost entirely agree with you mate

[Arbet-ten-storms]

@Parrydodger-silvermoon

I’m certain a lot will though because they’ve been doing it on private servers for years. Fresh has been an ongoing meme for years before Blizzard released classic. In fact, fresh is so popular that if a blizz-like fresh realm released, it would almost immediately kill the previously big private server, even if it hadn’t gotten through all the content yet because people cared more about that initial level 1 rush.

Why do you think fresh has happened in private servers for years?

Its because private servers did not last and did not progress. Vast majority of servers shut down (for many different reasons) after a relatively short time period, and it forced players to restart.

The changes you suggest are all good but I don’t think many people would choose to re-start if they are invested in their existing chars and they still have the option to progress on them.

[Nicolay-zandalar-tribe]

I just recently managed to finally kill KT. I don’t think there is a force in the world that would compel me to level another character to 60 and farm MC and Ony for another year . Not now, not ever. But I do look forward to TBC Classic.

[Parrydodger-silvermoon]

@Arbet-ten-storms

Why do you think fresh has happened in private servers for years?

Its because private servers did not last and did not progress. Vast majority of servers shut down (for many different reasons) after a relatively short time period, and it forced players to restart.

This is only partially true, as I stated in my comment u quoted, some servers didn’t even get to naxx when a fresh realm would come out and kill it. It wasn’t always about the server shutting down. The people running the previous dominant server had plans, but some1 new came and stole their thunder.

@Nicolay-zandalar-tribe

I just recently managed to finally kill KT. I don’t think there is a force in the world that would compel me to level another character to 60 and farm MC and Ony for another year . Not now, not ever. But I do look forward to TBC Classic.

And I’m sure many feel the same way and that’s completely fine, to each their own.