What is the future of the Horde?

All the weak points of the current story aside:

Whatever the end of this Addon will be. One thing is clear. Sylvanas will not stay in hordes charge. So there will be a new Warchief. And, according to the new cinematic it will not be Thrall.

Thrall: I will not lead the Horde.
Saurfang: I didn’t ask, but I hoped you would at least fight for it.

I think, his words are writers agenda. We will see Thrall fight for the Horde. But he will step back again. I am uncertain if the end of BfA is planed as the conclusion to his story. As his creative “father” is not at Blizzard for 2-3 years this would be logical turn to give his story a “satisfying” end and let him fix the collateral damage he done to the horde.

However. All the altitude and acts of Saurfang show clearly, that he also will not be the next on the throne of the mad leaders.

It will be Baine. His presence, his importance to BfAs Story. His active counterplay to Sylvanas actions… Even his posture in prison shown on all the screenshots. Strong. Upright. Unbroken. The whole Setup points to him.

To me it seems clear, that Blizzard plan is to give the horde the new face. Replace the old, well defined guard like Thrall, Saurfang and Sylvanas by new generation that is easier to form and is more… flexible.

While I do have “some” problems with the execution of this whole act, I do believe it is absolutely needed process (like alliance also desperately needs some new, resolute faces).

But well. What will be the outcome? Sylvanas, Thrall and most likely Saurfang will either be not the part of the horde, or at least not plot driving devices anymore. What will happen?

As already said, I believe we will likely get Baine as new Warchief. All my antipathy to him aside: In my eyes he is still the wrong person for major changes in the horde. Not because his Char. It is because of his closeness to the alliance.

Without major events in the story he does not stand for rivalry to the blue team. Combined with his counterpart, Anduin there will be nearly no potential for conflicts between the two factions… until the next out of nowhere manabomb or burning tree…

I would love to hear your opinion on this topic. Am I wrong believing Baine will be the new Warchief?
Will Thrall/Saurfang lead the horde?
Is Baine actually more “Vol’jin” then I believe and would play a strong counterpart to team blue without mutation to the new chaotic evil of Azeroth?

What would be the most positive way out of BfA with potential for new red/blue conflicts without making one of the two factions to the evil plot device.

And please do not forget, we are all players. WoW fans. Even if you are Horde, the Alliance want a nice Story too… and visa versa.

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Worst story ever. Baine is an alliance plant and the overall story an excuse to shove in more unwanted alliance bias. Also Golden should be fired. Enough summed up answer?

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You sound “angry” :wink:

While I understand your points, I do not agree on alliance bias.
My subjective feeling is, that the horde story is worse than its alliance counterpart. But ask some alliance players how they feel about it.

Playing short minded perfect white fighter for the good is actually not fun.

But it’s not the point. There is understandably lot of poison in story forums. So I simply tried to accept what we get. And talk about the future. How it could become better.

I wouldn’t mind Anduin and Baine if they were less like some secret lovers love story and more like actual leaders.

Anduin has all the reasons to distrust, or even hate, the Horde, and he shouldn’t put the blame of this 5th world war on the shoulders of Sylvanas’ solely. Everyone happily joined in the slaughter after the Legion invasion and peace was within hands reach.

Baine has every reason to distrust the Alliance, what with the Dwarves did in the Barrens, and the fact that the Alliance has led multiple incursions into Horde territory. And the fact that the Alliance expects them to behave like them, while their culturally vastly different. Also the fact that Trade between the Kaldorei and the Horde always have been a difficult subject wouldn’t make things easier.

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You are absolutely right with Baines and Anduins reasons for it. But at least Baines actions till now do not show any distrust to the Alliance. But this is a possible hook for some conflicts.

Thanks

Eats his leaves We have excellent crops this time of year, Erevien!

Personally, I think Baine is the only realistic choice, because Saurfang/Thrall don’t want the position as Warchief. And the Alliance wouldn’t trust any of the other participants. Peace would be untenable if someone like Nathanos were to be Warchief.

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I prefer the Vanilla Horde.
I always have.

Ragtag team of weakened races holding together for survival, trying to build a home for themselves and get over their horrible past (Forsaken & Orcs).

Seeing it come back in August makes me very happy.

As for modern wow: I don’t really care anymore. The Horde has become just as boring, stupid and lifeless as the Alliance, with all that has happened in MoP and BfA.

Nothing that Blizzard can do will ever undo the damage to the Factions.

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  1. Baine has no stomach for war and wouldn’t be much of a counterpart for the Alliance. If he becomes Warchief, we can either expect the faction conflict to go back to the fringes (where it belongs, if you ask me), vanish entirely (unlikely), Alliance and Horde reversing roles (Alliance going evil imperialist on the poor peaceful Horde) or… well, they could go for round 3 and unceremoniously get rid of a peacable Warchief for a lunatic one or two years in?
    Personally I would just expect them to dial down the faction conflict to a vanilla-bc level. They will think they adressed any old wrong in this war (see how they actually bring up things like Taurajo and the Sunreavers, just to get it over with), and don’t look back any time soon. That this addon is a failure will make them steer away from anything they did in BfA for a time.
  2. I do think Baine is the most likely. From the start of the addon they introduced Sylvanas and Saurfang as opposing poles of the old Horde that they had to grow beyond in the end, or that’s how I read the interviews back then. But they failed to develop any alternative… except for Baine, who neither understands a warrior culture, nor cold pragmatism. So ideal for a new Horde!.. … …yeah…
    I’m a bit baffled, though. If they wanted to make both Saurfang and Sylvanas seem like bad options, they are tooting the “Sylvanas is just evil” horn too loudly, and don’t showcase the old guys’ weaknesses enough. I mean… the biggest weakness they have shown in Thrall and Saurfang is that they really have no patience for this :poop: anymore and just want to go away, a weakness that wouldn’t be relevant, if their arc ended with them in power… But I guess it’s nothing new if they are just bad at their jobs.
  3. I haven’t fully given up on Vol’jin returning. Troll ressurections aren’t that uncommon in lore, and I have no idea where his ghost plot is going as it is. I guess they could make him a big deal in a shadowlands expansion, but I would actually prefer a rise from the grave (in a new body, I guess), to save the Horde and Azeroth, or siomething…

In this addon I would actually agree that the Horde story is much worse, mostly because, like always, the Alliance sin is passivity. We den’t really have our own plot, but are just reacting to yours, so it can’t get that degrading… well, except for Night Elves, of course.

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I would be really happy if blizzard could understand why the player is not interested in THEIR stories.

But this would contain the assumption that they are able to hear and accept the critics to their story writing.

With good will. They can (I do not believe that). The current action could restore the old state to some extend (as much as I hate what Blizzard done to uns). Forsaken: Damaged by Sylvanas, branded as mass murderer. Orcs: Damaged by Garrosh. Branded as bloodthirsty rassists. Even if they don’t like each other, they need unity to survive.

As for alliance… no Idea

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Conflict and the return of darker characters.

But as I said: The damage is done IMO and at this point I’d rather have them not creating any faction stories anymore…

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But they kind of destroyed that option in Before the Storm, didn’t they? In the end they made even Genn tell Anduin that he was right in reaching out to the Forsaken and that not all of them are bad, even if Sylvanas is. The same lesson Anduin supposedly learned through his contact with Garrosh, not all are bad, but some individuals can be evil. Even Jaina’s arc was about her finding back to her own values.

Blanket judgements have been taken out of the equalation, at least on Alliance side. You would have to replace most of our leadership, before Horde persecution from the Alliance would make sense, at least if you want it to be more than some renegades the Alliance is fighting as well.

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Do not understand me wrong. I see your point. And I am realy far from protecting this “plot”. But as you said. The Damage is done. That is the point, why I hope for more changes. Cause the status quo is too painful to keep as is.

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Damm. I wasn’t perfecting the art of bait posting just to be taken serious now.

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Offers a steak made of himself Well, it’s what you asked for isn’t it? :wink:

True. So true.

Blizzard is deleting the remaining constants in hordes leadership. Only Baine, Lor’themar, and the underrepresented rest of us are left after this expansion.

Why not the same with alliance in next expansion. Do you think this could develop the story in right direction?

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I don’t think anything can save the story at this point. But yes, getting rid of Anduin&Friends or at least making them just one faction among the Alliance without any power over the other would be a step in the right direction in my eyes.

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Allright.

Baine Bloodhoof will become the new Warchief of the Horde.
Two Expacs later…We as Horde players will face the choice of standing with him or helping Saurfang and Thrall with their rebellion.
As the story continues, the Baine loyalists will have to “go along” with the rebellious faction…through a series of events.
At the end… it turns out Baine was setting the play for ultimate World(of Warcraft) peace times, by summoning the Voidlords onto Azeroth.

I can only hope I get the killing blow and whisper into his ear, as he lies dieing in my arms, …“The survivors of Taurajo send their regards”

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In my defence, the chair made me do it. It’s like the Frozen Throne and the Helm of Domination!

On a side note, them making Warchief Baine would be cause for a resub :thinking:

It will be Baine, because there is no other option beside Saurfang and Thrall and I think both are unlikely.

Because every Horde vs Alliance expac ends with a shaky peace, and whom else would Anduin trust but his old buddy Baine?

Come on, we saw this coming miles away. This xpac will end in the well-known status quo of skirmishes and overlapping interests.

Whatever the next xpac is going to be is undoubtedly a risk to the whole of Azeroth and we have to join ranks again and blah blah blah /YAWN

And after that we go killing each other again for some far fetched reason.

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I think it would look a bit stupid to put Baine in charge after everything now. He’s been portrayed more as a victim in everything than a potential would-be warchief. It won’t be Saurfy as he’s too old. It’ll be Thrall.

Edit btw: I don’t mind Baine just to add. But the way he’s been written, doesn’t strike me as steering him into the warchiefs chair at all.

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