What would cause you to consider teldrassil repayed?


#315

if this was in reply to mine it just kinda breaks the zone that they are just doing what they were doing before with no reaction to the battle that occurred or the fact that the rest of their race was evacuated.


#316

Until Garrosh derailed and showed his face he also had so many sympathisers.

No If your punch is coming from a reason in a very untimely situation I will hold grudge against you but wont have ground to stand because you had good reason to do so.

She deserved it Stormheim and this is your headcannon right now.

Thats not a phrase someone whos seeking peace, would say. And we discussed this before, as I recall.

Everyone has something coming. Sylvanas for one has her solitude coming right now.

Im not rejecting I can prove each opinions of Character to be right or wrong. So now get off my back with this nonsense.

That is most unjust statement I have heard even for a Horde player to write.

I cant even comment on this…

Go read Good War please.


#317

You’re right. It makes no sense that they remained there.


#318

And like Garrosh, before controversy she had no problem calling for support. So I take it you finally take my point

Either that’s a load of rubbish or you are not a self respecting person…

No, headcannon would be thinking that just because you think someone deserves something it excuses actions taken entirely. That’s headcannon

We did, and as I recall we agreed that her being revealed was very damaging to any attempt at negotiations, so I am not real sure what you think this proves.

I doubt it. Alliance have had more characters revive from apparent death than killed. The Horde on the other hand… hah, well no revivals there outside of time traveling orcs

No you can’t. The quote this originally pertains to was when she said she and her first forsaken used to be loyal Alliance citizens (true) that they died for that banner (fighting the scourge, so also true) and their reward was to be hunted as vermin (look at the classic quest zones in that area, so also true). I then cited a pristine example of how Rogers and Genn explicitly state they are hunting her down.

ever since they you’ve just been saying she believes her words to be true but they are lies. How about you try proving something here. Until then, while I detest the word, surely this is the clearest example of “headcannon” of all time…

Yeah, well, maybe you shouldn’t make sure ridiculous statements then.

Hah, well let’s look at an example. Genn could have not run from the blight in the siege of Lordaeron, there were horde with masks on in it after all. Since he values self preservation he ran. Not really uncommon, in fact we should expect everyone has such thoughts. It’s probably not unfair to say for the Alliance, this is a war for survival. The Horde killed not only them but citizens. from Alliance PoV it’s definitely about the safety of their people as a primary reason.

Ergo the statement “No other major characters goal is to stay alive.” is absolute nonsense.

Listen to the Saurfang and Garrosh conversation in Borean Tundra.


#319

You missing the point.

I respect myself, thank you very much. You know what I mean by that. When you know you have messed up and get hit by it, there is no disrespect owning to our own actions.

Headcannon is when there is no information given from source and you put your own ideas into something, which you just did.

Dont “We” Sylvanas please.

Take it with pinch of Salt.

This is getting boring. If you dont want to hear my side, then move on.

Again, you are living in past like Sylvanas. Different times Different people and Anduin has been trying to fix this.

/facepalm. Maybe its ridiculous, because you do not understand it or cannot understand it. For some reason I know which one it is.

So you truly believe that everyone has same goal of self surviving as Sylvanas? That they will do anything to stay alive?

I dont need to, there is most recent novel that proves their moral actions of 1st and 2nd war. From Saurfang actually.


#320

No, that is entirely the point man… what the heck else do you think we have been talking about?

Allowing someone to deck you over something that happened years ago where an undersanding had been reached and only reacting with “oh well, i guess that was my bad” is not self respect.

Hmm, yeah, no, yeah, no…

picky picky picky

I am just waiting for you to elaborate using logic instead of bias.

Since the point raised was about the past… Yeah, obviously.

Maybe? There’s actually doubt in your mind about that? wowza.

Nice try but that’s not what you said is it? I even expressly asked if that’s really what you meant but you were the one who persisted.

Game > Book


#321

Yeah point is, as soon as they revealed their true nature and relationship with rest of the Horde races they were rejected. If Horde is family who takes care of each other then these members have disgraced Horde and they have gotten their deserved response. Respect is earned not given in Warchief titles.

Never have been reached. If you mean Crowley trading his daughter to fight another day you are being delusional.

Alright…

Sylvanas own thoughts goes like this:

Which is true. Not Horde but, Garrosh and Sylvanas drew them from their home and as long as they are alive and live to remember that day Gilneas will be disputed and know we will come for it one day slaughter every forsaken that has defiled the land with their filth!

Major human kingdom - Stormwind, its king Anduin Wrynn’s first intentions on his rule to end the hatred cycle between two races. Her witnessing it with her own eyes how her people and Humans have shown the will to put their differences aside. And her words exactly to that particular event was that there cannot be hope in her peoples hearts, she will not allow it.

Not easily mended. But Kaldorei, especially Malfurion talking to Lorash before his death about how Kaldorei and Sin’dorei have no cause to fight and go to war.

So many forces. Happening long ago and since then there has been so many interactions between two races, she discards everything to fuel Saurfangs rage.

Yet shown from Thralls Horde that whole race needed redemption, because what had Legion done to them. Orcs and Humans finding common ground over the years. Wrathgate, Legion, Varian and Thrall, Thrall and Jaina.

We are not so different when we fight for same cause you see and we have faced so many troubles united.

Varian, Jaina, Anduin, Tirion, Kedgar all the prominent human characters who have truly got to know orcs have at least one orc “friend”. So I dont buy that.

If you could give me 5 alive humans that might prove her right I’d love to hear.

Discussed already .

By subjugate them under Horde, so much for peace. And it appeared thats not even the actual goal if she has to she will burn us on stake.

If thats the Horde you like then you do belong to Forsaken ranks.

Thats why its not relevant… In classic the Scourge was still big thing, knowing what it did to Human Kingdoms, there was big mistrust between two races, but TIME HAS GONE BY and people are adapting, thats why I say she does not change.

Stop playing Mind games with me, not working… Go get some lessons from the Dark Lady.

Was it so? Sincerely, dont remember.

No, not really. Especially given the chronological order of it.


(Erevien) #322

Nobody reads the books and blizzard loves retcons. So no, not books.

Better this way than the Baine cow path of fruitless appeasement.

Genn, Turalyon, Danath, all of the Crowley family, Rogers, Tandred and Katherine, all of Stromgarde survivors who still see hunting trolls as a sport.

I don’t think so.

Author admitted on Twitter that he forgot about Kaldorei invading the ghostlands by mistake. Redshirt guy remembered him of it.

You want to wipe out one race, then you have to go through to the entire horde first. We do not throw people under the bus for appeasement.


(Lukas) #323

Lor’themar was going to side with the Alliance over Garrosh. Just putting it out there since it seems to be forgotten a lot.

There won’t be much Horde left to go through at this stage. Other than the Sylvanas cheer-leading squad there’s really only Geya’rah openly supporting her, which is only further confirmation that Exarch Garrosh Hellscream is the embodiment of purity and righteousness and I will praise the day he crashes out of the sky in a blaze of holy glory to decapitate Sylvanas.


(Erevien) #324

Lor’themar gave himself up. That’s not the same as surrendering one of your allies to the enemy for no other reason but appeasement.

Hard headcanon.


(Lukas) #325

Headcanon or Bestcanon?


(Artein) #326

Burning Teldrassil?
An affront to the nature, planted by the servant of Ragnaros (which in turn worked for N’zoth) out of his own hubris.
This tree that was corrupted by the Nightmare?
You want to repay us? You can start with a simple “Thank you.”


#327

This tree was planted before Fandral was corrupted by the emerald Nightmare. The tree wasn’t corrupted anymore too since wow Alexstarza and Ysera blessed it again.


#328

Let it not be repaid. I dunno.

Or let it contribute further into teaching Anduin that decisive action - perhaps taking the first one - is often better than just twiddling your thumbs and hoping for the best. This includes his cause for peace.

Given up on him constantly saying how all the world’s problems is all his fault or whatever.


(Zarao) #329

Chronicles explicitly says that it was Fandral the one who planted it. And the purpose of it, was already one about serving the Old Gods.


#330

Its sad, sad days when Blizzard makes books mandatory to understand the lore of game. But its like that.

Better Baine then Vengence driven wailing wench.

About that spesific fact? If you would be so kind and share that twit with us, alongside the red shirt guys reminder.

At this point I would not mind getting my daggers bit dirty with Horde blood!


#331

Do you (and with you I mean all of us) realize that we are bashing here each other on lore that Blizzard don’t know and don’t care? Instead of uniting our voices to ask for better content.


#332

It’s less about caring content about some people now.

And more about how far you can push people’s buttons.


#333

Except, that’s not what we were talking about.

Elaborate

Except she literally says “Living Humans of Lordaeron”

So, the trolls are forced from their home and you are saying that time between then and now is a factor. Same argument for Gilneans and you say the reverse

Redemption is not the same a suffering.

Assuming the double Thrall is a typo Jaina is the poster girl for how inter-faction war in inevitable. She was the biggest advocate for peace in the lore for a long time.

I like how your five includes Jaina, who as i say above, one of the biggest war advocates in the game. Who was Varian’s orc Friend? Rehgar? his owner when he was a slave? Bit of a stretch isn’t it?

5 living humans that still blame orcs for the events of the first war?
Danath Trollbane, Turalyon, Katherine Proudmore, Jaina Proudmoore, Catherine Rogers.

I do belong to forsaken ranks. That said, this makes as much sense to me as it does to you. Burning teldrassil was a big left turn for just about everyone i think.

All I can say is, it makes sense to me that the weaker faction that often gets the short end of the stick needs to be a position of strength when the terms were struck… really don’t see how burning teldrassil factors in that but… well what do i know.

I am not disputing time changes things. but you said she has only ever cared about herself, or something akin to that. The exact reason she recruited the val’kyr proves that to be wrong.

Anything that happens in the game supersedes anything that happens in a book in the event of a conflict. The game is the source material, books are just flavoring. Also Many things in books have been retconned by now which is why i hold this position here.


#334

Its exactly what we were talking about. Horde sticks to one another statement is not true! Have been proven to be wrong in new and old Horde and orcish Horde!

And tell me how many and impactful Lordaeron humans are?

Ok first things first, Humans did not drive Darkspear out of their homes. It were Kul Tirans looking for Thrall and as hostile race they opened fire. Its was sea witch naga that temporarily drove trolls away. Thrall defeated humans on the island so it couldnt have been them. Another Sylvanas delusion.

Eventually they also found new enemies in [humans] when a -fleet landed on the island in search for some orcs who had stolen some ships. The trolls’ fate seemed sealed until the orcish Warchief Thrall and his band of newly freed orcs, which were the orcs the humans were looking for, took shelter on the island after a heavy storm. The orcs managed to defeat the humans, but their victory was short-lived.

They were taken in prison by sea witch. After deafeating her the quote continues.

After returning to the island’s surface, Thrall and his followers managed to fend off further attacks by the Sea Witch and her murloc minions, and set sail for Kalimdor once again. Under the new leadership of Vol’jin, the Darkspear swore allegiance to Thrall’s Hordeand followed him to Kalimdor.

https:// wow. gamepedia. com/Darkspear_tribe

You need to be redeemed for somethi ng you know.

And why exactly she had a change on heart?

Fair enough.

You sure talk big words for a faction that got nearly got crushed beneath Alliance foot, couple of expansions before. And writers going long way to cut Alliances power from BFA, shows who is stronger :muscle:

Then again if that is how you view peace then there is nothing to talk about.

Was to keep Sylvanas alive.

With that logic you can remove all the written lore and you will get a naked game lore, that makes no sense.