What would cause you to consider teldrassil repayed?


Yeah point is, as soon as they revealed their true nature and relationship with rest of the Horde races they were rejected. If Horde is family who takes care of each other then these members have disgraced Horde and they have gotten their deserved response. Respect is earned not given in Warchief titles.

Never have been reached. If you mean Crowley trading his daughter to fight another day you are being delusional.


Sylvanas own thoughts goes like this:

Which is true. Not Horde but, Garrosh and Sylvanas drew them from their home and as long as they are alive and live to remember that day Gilneas will be disputed and know we will come for it one day slaughter every forsaken that has defiled the land with their filth!

Major human kingdom - Stormwind, its king Anduin Wrynn’s first intentions on his rule to end the hatred cycle between two races. Her witnessing it with her own eyes how her people and Humans have shown the will to put their differences aside. And her words exactly to that particular event was that there cannot be hope in her peoples hearts, she will not allow it.

Not easily mended. But Kaldorei, especially Malfurion talking to Lorash before his death about how Kaldorei and Sin’dorei have no cause to fight and go to war.

So many forces. Happening long ago and since then there has been so many interactions between two races, she discards everything to fuel Saurfangs rage.

Yet shown from Thralls Horde that whole race needed redemption, because what had Legion done to them. Orcs and Humans finding common ground over the years. Wrathgate, Legion, Varian and Thrall, Thrall and Jaina.

We are not so different when we fight for same cause you see and we have faced so many troubles united.

Varian, Jaina, Anduin, Tirion, Kedgar all the prominent human characters who have truly got to know orcs have at least one orc “friend”. So I dont buy that.

If you could give me 5 alive humans that might prove her right I’d love to hear.

Discussed already .

By subjugate them under Horde, so much for peace. And it appeared thats not even the actual goal if she has to she will burn us on stake.

If thats the Horde you like then you do belong to Forsaken ranks.

Thats why its not relevant… In classic the Scourge was still big thing, knowing what it did to Human Kingdoms, there was big mistrust between two races, but TIME HAS GONE BY and people are adapting, thats why I say she does not change.

Stop playing Mind games with me, not working… Go get some lessons from the Dark Lady.

Was it so? Sincerely, dont remember.

No, not really. Especially given the chronological order of it.

(Erevien) #322

Nobody reads the books and blizzard loves retcons. So no, not books.

Better this way than the Baine cow path of fruitless appeasement.

Genn, Turalyon, Danath, all of the Crowley family, Rogers, Tandred and Katherine, all of Stromgarde survivors who still see hunting trolls as a sport.

I don’t think so.

Author admitted on Twitter that he forgot about Kaldorei invading the ghostlands by mistake. Redshirt guy remembered him of it.

You want to wipe out one race, then you have to go through to the entire horde first. We do not throw people under the bus for appeasement.

(Lukas) #323

Lor’themar was going to side with the Alliance over Garrosh. Just putting it out there since it seems to be forgotten a lot.

There won’t be much Horde left to go through at this stage. Other than the Sylvanas cheer-leading squad there’s really only Geya’rah openly supporting her, which is only further confirmation that Exarch Garrosh Hellscream is the embodiment of purity and righteousness and I will praise the day he crashes out of the sky in a blaze of holy glory to decapitate Sylvanas.

(Erevien) #324

Lor’themar gave himself up. That’s not the same as surrendering one of your allies to the enemy for no other reason but appeasement.

Hard headcanon.

(Lukas) #325

Headcanon or Bestcanon?

(Artein) #326

Burning Teldrassil?
An affront to the nature, planted by the servant of Ragnaros (which in turn worked for N’zoth) out of his own hubris.
This tree that was corrupted by the Nightmare?
You want to repay us? You can start with a simple “Thank you.”


This tree was planted before Fandral was corrupted by the emerald Nightmare. The tree wasn’t corrupted anymore too since wow Alexstarza and Ysera blessed it again.


Let it not be repaid. I dunno.

Or let it contribute further into teaching Anduin that decisive action - perhaps taking the first one - is often better than just twiddling your thumbs and hoping for the best. This includes his cause for peace.

Given up on him constantly saying how all the world’s problems is all his fault or whatever.

(Zarao) #329

Chronicles explicitly says that it was Fandral the one who planted it. And the purpose of it, was already one about serving the Old Gods.


Its sad, sad days when Blizzard makes books mandatory to understand the lore of game. But its like that.

Better Baine then Vengence driven wailing wench.

About that spesific fact? If you would be so kind and share that twit with us, alongside the red shirt guys reminder.

At this point I would not mind getting my daggers bit dirty with Horde blood!


Do you (and with you I mean all of us) realize that we are bashing here each other on lore that Blizzard don’t know and don’t care? Instead of uniting our voices to ask for better content.


It’s less about caring content about some people now.

And more about how far you can push people’s buttons.


Except, that’s not what we were talking about.


Except she literally says “Living Humans of Lordaeron”

So, the trolls are forced from their home and you are saying that time between then and now is a factor. Same argument for Gilneans and you say the reverse

Redemption is not the same a suffering.

Assuming the double Thrall is a typo Jaina is the poster girl for how inter-faction war in inevitable. She was the biggest advocate for peace in the lore for a long time.

I like how your five includes Jaina, who as i say above, one of the biggest war advocates in the game. Who was Varian’s orc Friend? Rehgar? his owner when he was a slave? Bit of a stretch isn’t it?

5 living humans that still blame orcs for the events of the first war?
Danath Trollbane, Turalyon, Katherine Proudmore, Jaina Proudmoore, Catherine Rogers.

I do belong to forsaken ranks. That said, this makes as much sense to me as it does to you. Burning teldrassil was a big left turn for just about everyone i think.

All I can say is, it makes sense to me that the weaker faction that often gets the short end of the stick needs to be a position of strength when the terms were struck… really don’t see how burning teldrassil factors in that but… well what do i know.

I am not disputing time changes things. but you said she has only ever cared about herself, or something akin to that. The exact reason she recruited the val’kyr proves that to be wrong.

Anything that happens in the game supersedes anything that happens in a book in the event of a conflict. The game is the source material, books are just flavoring. Also Many things in books have been retconned by now which is why i hold this position here.


Its exactly what we were talking about. Horde sticks to one another statement is not true! Have been proven to be wrong in new and old Horde and orcish Horde!

And tell me how many and impactful Lordaeron humans are?

Ok first things first, Humans did not drive Darkspear out of their homes. It were Kul Tirans looking for Thrall and as hostile race they opened fire. Its was sea witch naga that temporarily drove trolls away. Thrall defeated humans on the island so it couldnt have been them. Another Sylvanas delusion.

Eventually they also found new enemies in [humans] when a -fleet landed on the island in search for some orcs who had stolen some ships. The trolls’ fate seemed sealed until the orcish Warchief Thrall and his band of newly freed orcs, which were the orcs the humans were looking for, took shelter on the island after a heavy storm. The orcs managed to defeat the humans, but their victory was short-lived.

They were taken in prison by sea witch. After deafeating her the quote continues.

After returning to the island’s surface, Thrall and his followers managed to fend off further attacks by the Sea Witch and her murloc minions, and set sail for Kalimdor once again. Under the new leadership of Vol’jin, the Darkspear swore allegiance to Thrall’s Hordeand followed him to Kalimdor.

https:// wow. gamepedia. com/Darkspear_tribe

You need to be redeemed for somethi ng you know.

And why exactly she had a change on heart?

Fair enough.

You sure talk big words for a faction that got nearly got crushed beneath Alliance foot, couple of expansions before. And writers going long way to cut Alliances power from BFA, shows who is stronger :muscle:

Then again if that is how you view peace then there is nothing to talk about.

Was to keep Sylvanas alive.

With that logic you can remove all the written lore and you will get a naked game lore, that makes no sense.


Imho …there is nothing that can compensate for all the murdered innocents that died that day. No retribution will make it right. That is the sad thing. The cycle of hatred, war, and retribution just continues and expands. More lives are lost on both sides. It doesn’t make it better. The ecosystem is being ravaged by war, we are using up valuable resources, and generally making a mess.

(Aster) #336

It seems your thread was posted in Us as well, Malaficus.

Back on topic:
I agree.
Just give the initiative to the Alliance.

At least on this scenario, the Horde would fight as one, since players that love war would have their way and the players that don’t like it (my case) would have a reason to stand and fight (without moral issues).

As for the Alliance, let us be honest none likes to be a punching bag all the time …


(Destruct) #337

Tauren are more neutral but would be oke with the following scenario where Mulgore gets desroyed (Teldrassil was an entire zone…):

In retalation and due to Tauren not sticking up for night elves, the night elves decides to occupy and/or destroy Mulgore. They decide to go by the north passage that leads directly into Stonetalon Mountains.

yadada Thunderbluff and the towns in Mulgore all get destroyed and a big part of the NPCs will die, the Tauren are forced to abandon Mulgore complety. I would have said Azshara but nobody cares about that zone anyhow. Or just blow up Silvermoon and have those relocate to Ashenvalle (still currently resistance fighters there including Astranaar but thanks to Silvermoon refugees they get kicked out to Darkshore). The only two problems with that zone are:

  1. How do they access Ghostlands then?
  2. It’s a TBC zone they refuse to touch…

So Mulgore it’s unless somebody comes up with a scenario regarding Azshara. Regarding relcoating if TB:

-Give Forsaken Dustwallow Marsh
-The Tauren Southern Barrens and Thousand Needles (complety or just the northern part?)
-Night Elves Ferales, Astranaar or make their new capital in Stonetalon Mountains
-Bring back the Gilneans properly to Gilneas, it’s cleansed in lore.

In the end it should equalize out:

-Undercity > New Theramore (to spite Jaina what the Forsaken would love to do)
-Mulgore > Southern Barrens (+ atleast part of Thousand Needles)
-Teldrassil > Stonetalon Mountains (Horde gets kicked out complety)*
-Worgen/Gilneans back to Gilneas.

*Also nice interaction for Feralas in the future. The Alliance holds the land route (Stonetalon) and Horde the sea route (Thousand needles).

Edit: Also will force the Forsaken to be carefull since there are no huge amounts of human grave sites or graveyards to plunder there. This along with the lose of the Val’kyr will make the race more friendly and sensible hopefully.

(Felblooded) #338

Repayment for teldrassil? It wouldnt be by taking a Horde city I tell you that. It’d be by doing something drastic that would cut right to the heart of the horde old and new. Id have Alliance forces move into Gilneas alterac and arathi and hillbrad retake all of it. Then into Alterac valley itself. Half the Frostwolf clan would be killed and the rest ran off. Drekthar himself is killed in the fighting.



I am happy to see a reasonable horde.

(system) closed #340

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