Whisperer bro

PVP Arenas
104

Well, first of all, the majority of people posting can be checked if you look back at previous posts you took part in, I can go as far as saying that - I know that the majority disagrees with most of the stuff you have used in the past to defend your points and its reasonable.

I don’t try to discredit you, you do that yourself by using false statements that are just blatantly wrong in a lot of points that I don’t need to get into since a lot of people in the past already have done so, without any success, since you only listen to what you have to say.

Let me just tell you one thing, you seem to know a lot about arguments, and how they work since you presented me with all those fancy latin words such as argumentum ad populum, argumentum ab auctoritate and argumentum ad hominem. I studied all these logical fallacies long time ago and all I can say is that my statements can be backed up if you just do your research instead of trying to bash me straight up for saying something which you don’t seem to grasp because of your own ignorance towards what others have to say.

Let me just look back a little while ago and open some kind of post where you took part in.

https:// eu.forums.blizzard. com/en/ wow/t/ fdk-rank-one /84571/11 - In this post, Cutiepie made a statement: “while dk’s ww’s rogues mages also being at the top at being very strong they’re at least not frustrating to play against nor you don’t have to limit your playstyle extremely like to the destro lock in the enemy team or the fire mage.”, while you replied with a simple: “I disagree”

In the same post, you made statements how you judge classes by their comps and that monk is not tier S by itself: “well, there are tier S comps for monks, yet monk isn’t tier S, so I dunno what you’re trying to say, I judge classes by their comps.”, which was your answer to: “https: // i.gyazo. com/d9cf7224dd109d2bb7e333033340d1f8.png”, which basically makes your arguments that you made about classes being S tier invalid in a lot of points. You judging classes by their comps vs skill-capped, which has arguably better sources to get the idea of whats good and whats not is also not even an argument.

All I had to do is look back couple of posts and see tons of stuff that is just totally wrong and straight up ignorant from your side. You obviously know how to use language, unlike many people who post here and you do make some sense in where you are coming from, but you have to look at what others have to say in order for you to get good conclusions.

Other than that, most of the things you said that I quoted are not even an arguments and just seem to be plain ignorance, I didn’t link those to discredit you on these forums, all I want to do is for you to realize some of stuff you say and think about it a little bit.

1 Like
105

I agree, shouldn’t have stated that most of the people think of him as a joke, I basically meant that most people who post on these forums and argue with whisperer disagree with what he has to say, which is not an assumption, it is a fact that you can look up if you open some older posts.

106

What’s the value of a majority here when there’s like a dozen people posting on this forum on a regular basis?
This is no world congress. A majority here is worth a fart in the wind.

And like Whisperer said, then it is a fallacy to invoke a majority to enforce the strength of your argument. Argumentum ad populum.

1 Like
107

I wouldn’t call my statements arguments, I made a statement from what anybody can observe, get over it. Value of majority is that most of these people have more experience than he does both in arenas played and rating wise, now, I am not bashing ratings or anything since my ratings are not anything special or something, just stating the facts here.

108

Please refrain from summoning whisperer to these forums.

1 Like
109

The main reason people make comments about the likes of whisperer and jito posting is because everytime they post it opens up a can of worms and turns every topic into this endless debate of absolute bullsh*t that alllllways gets sidetracked away from what the original post was about anyway hahahaha.

Hardly a dig at an individual it’s all in good fun that’s it.

110

Yet you provide no other statistic, than your own opinion which is not backed up. So far the so-called majority consist of only one person - you. And that’s not majority.

then don’t post if you just post attacks which you’re incapable of backing up, it’s twice as much hillarious when in your opinion I don’t back up my claims
even though I do, when I need to, but you don’t when you need to (aka when you’re saying majority does this, or you’re doing this).

You might have studied it, but you kinda failed at it, since you yourself are using only them (nothing else).
And yes, I maybe can research your statements. But that’s shifting burden of proof.

YOU’RE SUPPOSED TO PROVIDE SUPPORT FOR YOUR ARGUMENTS.
Not me.

I wouldn’t either. They’re argument fallacies. False attempt to provide basis for argument where there is none.

111

The original post is literally about me.
Check the title.
And it’s strawmaning me an opinion.
Can you explain in depth how did I sidetracked from that when I defended myself?

112

Shhhhhh… i"m enjoying the show.

2 Likes
113

I told you that you can check it yourself if you want to and that its a claim that I made based on what I observed here, yet you tell me that I only provided my own opinion as the only statistic, I linked you previous posts you made just to show you some of the stupid things you managed to pull from your bollocks.

I gave you the statements you made as a form of statistic from different posts, do you want me to go out my way to make a table for your petty butt just so you can still say things such as: “But, but…the table is wrong because the people who said this and that are using arguments A and B”, and nitpick some words in middle of the sentence just enough for the sentence to lose context and meaning so you can shift your argument according to that instead of actually accepting that?

You actually did that with quoting unfinished sentence that had way different meaning to what I had to say there, took that out of context and answered with your own thoughts to something I never said or meant in the context you try to create out of it.

The only thing you seem to be good at is repeating yourself over and over again with how I’m using argument fallacies, yet, for the third time in a row, I provided you with some older posts in my post.

Other than that, if you fail to see what I’m trying to say you should start looking at yourself and try to grow as an individual, because you have tons of stuff to learn about arguing successfully, I am supposed to provide support for my arguments, I did, and if you don’t see that then you are just talking with yourself and nobody else since you answer to my statements with your own head, create different meaning and context and try to teach me what I do wrong.

I am done with this post, you are way too ignorant for me to lose more of my time and energy to argument with you, you fail to grasp the basics of communication, I am not going out my way to make a table, I just looked back a couple posts back, found where you posted and linked you whats wrong with that and how people respond to your arguments and you just ignore/dismiss what they said without use of any basic logic.

114

This reply in itself is what I’m referring to you do this alot and I didn’t mean just this post wasn’t talking literally.

1 Like
115

yes you did, which is argument fallacy, you didn’t support it and it’s not up to me to support your claims

No I don’t want you to go out your way.
I just point out how pathetic it is from you to say I don’t have arguments, yet you repeatedly fail to support your own arguments and ask me to support your arguments.

It’s funny that somebody who were unable to summon or support any of its arguments is actually telling me how to argue successfuly.
But alright, I’ll now try to be more “succesful” at arguing as you.

You’re an idiot. Google the reason why.

No, I don’t want to be pathetic and disingenuous person using argument fallacies and following non-logical conclusions and accusing without evidence, like you. And I don’t consider being that being personal growth for me. I’d actually consider it one of the worst things that could happen to me as far as arguments are concerned.

116

You didn’t post single link.
Even if you found somebody who disagreed with me, it doesn’t mean majority disagrees, so that claim of yours is unsupported.
Even if you found that majority disagreed with me, it doesn’t mean I’m wrong, that’s also unsupported.

On those two premises you tried to build your argument, but one is pathetic and unsupported and the other straightforward wrong.
https://cs.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum

No, majority of wow players are definately not 2000 rating + currently.
Funilly enough you arebashing rating and it’s not a fact.
If you look at last season of Legion, in which they actually lined achievments with % you ended up at, then I am in top 35% as challenger.
Which means 65% People have less experience rating wise. Which is more than what’s needed for majority.

So your ad hominem is not only pointless, not only you failed to show why rating or exp should matter, but also factually wrong, since you claim that majority of people have better rating than me, which they don’t.

117

All your arguments is “you wrong”,that is so pathetic

2 Likes
118

DEFINATELY!

1 Like
119

Nope, all my arguments are “your arguments are unsupported, I will not do research for you and using argument fallacies and rely on them is stupid” + “bunch of what you said is incorrect, like claiming majority of people have over 2000 rating”, they don’t.

120

For real now, you keep telling me how I didn’t give you any supported arguments in here, I linked you the REPLIES you made some old POSTS, are you so ignorant that you fail to see that? I dont care about legion xp or any kind of other xp other than this season xp, if you give arguments to somebody why they play wrong vs locks, you should at least have some games played this season, not be stuck below 2k and then talk to some people who argue against you that have more than 2.6k xp and have much better idea on how the game works, your skill capped claims that you always make are literally so misleading, the site says how the tier systems work as well. If you cant manage to get yourself to rank 1, you are probably wrong in the points you make about balancing or classes and most people who argue against you are higher xp/played more games. If more people say no to your claims than yes, that means you probably are wrong unless you are multi r1 player that is up to something and knows his stuff. I literally dont see where your ignorance is coming from, all your points are how I gave you unsupported claims, yet I posted some old posts. Let me just say one last thing since logic or arguments dont work with you since you are such an idiot… F U C K Y O U and bye.

121

Whisperer bro, do you even lift? :slight_smile:

122

So these can actually both be true.

There are mainly 3 approaches to make your point convincing.

Ethos - credibility
Pathos - emotion
Logos - logic

Ethos is a way of appealing to credibility and authority to assert a point.

When people put forth the argument that “I’m right because I have a high rating!” then they’re arguing based on ethos.
Ethos carries some weight in some circumstances. If there’s been an accident and someone says “I know what needs to be done, I’m a doctor!” then few people will contest that. The credibility of the person matters a lot in the given situation.

You’re using ethos when you say that rating and experience matters. That’s presenting an argument that theoretical knowledge without personal top level experience is invalid, because it’s not based on anyone’s reality.

Logos is a way of appealing to logic and reason.

Logos tends to carry a lot of weight in science and other fact-oriented areas. It usually trumphs ethos and pathos on the forums I find, because the written word is the ideal medium for it.
Whisperer uses logos primarily. Impartial data and deductive reasoning to form a conclusion. A logos argument is usually anonymous - it can be presented by anyone. Like math. 2+2=4 and that’s true regardless of whether you’re in kindergarten or attend a university.
Logos doesn’t really care about ethos. 2+2 doesn’t become 5, even if you have a PhD in math.

I always find ethos to be the poor man’s way of writing on the forums. It’s the armory policing, the personal insults, the insistence on being right based on a number rather than the substance of the discussion.
It’s usually popular because it’s easy. You don’t have to write very much. You just point at your rating and go: “Mine’s bigger! I win!”
Sometimes it’s right. For example when people discuss inticrate strategies and tactics in Arenas, then credibility matters a lot. It carries a lot of weight to have personal play experience at a high level then.
At other times, like when discussing broader topics, like PvP balance and class design, then logos tends to be far far superior. The topics are simply so broad that personal experience becomes nullified - it doesn’t count for enough. Logos and reliance on data and logical deduction is usually the ideal.

Just a little musing. :slight_smile:

123

That is typically a sentence said by people who, like Whisperer and you - no offense, facts - cannot pretend to have that experience and credibility. Because if this you don’t have to possibility to use ethos and all you can do is theorizing with a logic that YOU, and only YOU in some cases, have decided as the true logic. So it is obviously in agreement with the fact that you can’t use credibility to claim things such as what I quoted. You yourself said few people would contest the doctor’s title in a medical emergency scenario. Why ? Because it’s his field of expertise, and of all people present he knows more and will be able to best solve the emergency. Now lets say we’re talking about Rogues in tournaments. Whaaz and Pikaboo (example alright) are talking about it. Then you, Jito, come with your logic and it happe s to contradict their experience of what actually happened and happens while they are LIVING IT. Who’s right ? You because you think your logic was sound ? Or them because what they say actually happens and what you say doesn’t ? You wouldn’t contest their credibility on the topic (or you’d be an imbecile for doing so) because it’s common knowledge that they are amongst the people who master the class best and know of its various interactions with the meta more than anyone else. But for some reason people like Whisperer seem to think it is find to contradict people slightly less known but still miles more experienced who are living what they describe in forums daily while all Whisperers know of the topic is what HE GRAPS of the videos he watches. This isn’t universal knowledge like 2+2=4. It’s his interpretations vs what people are actually living. What is more true then ? A logic based on personal interpretation without actual base or facts that are happening? In that situation, it is safe to say that the credibility should be valued a lot more than logic since the logic, in talks about this game, is all about personal interpretation of whatever you’re talking about.

Example. You do remember your wall of text on arenas and stuff ? You did say, at start, that IN YOUR OPINION 2s should be removed. You used logic to explain why. And it even was well-structured, a cause, a reasoning, and a wish for removal. But the cause what is it ? Something that is a feeling of yours. It could be anythibg I don’t remember but possible reasons could be :

  • you didn’t like the bracket (personal feelings)
  • history made you have issues with it (personal)
  • you thought removing it would promote 3s (personal interpretation of how people would react)
  • it’s impossible to balance, which alone doesn’t mean anything and is thus follow by “then not fun”, personal interpretation, “then bot teaching pvp”, personal yet again, and so on.
    Meanwhile you could have had blizzcon players saying “No, 2s is an important bracket despite the imbalances as it makes the game lively on the PvP side and is still a decent training groups”. Your logic at the time might have disagreed but the credibility of the guy is superior. He plays more. He might be paid for it. He knows more what the populations plays. He knows how people learn pvp. He might even teach people in 2s. Is your own logic based on your interpretation in 2s stronger that facts brought uo by people with such a credibility when it comes to wow PvP ? No.

But this post wasn’t abiut bashing you, as I said it was an example. Your “logic”, to people line whisperer and you, has no grounds in a game like this as close to none of what you think about the game is universal knowledge that would never change like 2+2 = 4. You guys should probably open your ears to people who actually have the experience to back up their claims instead of hiding yourselves in personal interpretations to back up arguments.

4 Likes