Why Dalaran is not joining the Alliance?

[Sereluna-silvermoon]

Fine, I killed those goblins in Silithus, which is clearly the reason the war started.

[Haiete-argent-dawn]

God please delete this entire thread. Amen.

[Erevien-die-aldor (Erevien)]

I have photographically evidence. Gonna snatch you it at a secret location next week.

[Steabra-blackmoore]

Why the alliance is not joining the Horde for Humans as allied race

[Elyssarain-darkmoon-faire (Elyssarain)]

They’re called the Forsaken.

[Steabra-blackmoore]

But don’t look like humans at all. They look like Grandparents which try to look cool.

[Elyssarain-darkmoon-faire (Elyssarain)]

They’re still the Alliance humans you asked for. Been resurrected into the Horde, go team Sylvanas!

[Steabra-blackmoore]

You can keep them. They smell and don’t look like sociable persons. I noticed a disadvantage ob Forsaken Rogues. What smells like here?

[Elyssarain-darkmoon-faire (Elyssarain)]

Too late! Ye asked and ye shall receive!!

I noticed a disadvantage ob Forsaken Rogues. What smells like here?

I believe in lore that some of them have deliberately feigned being corpses, probably for this exact reason.

[Steabra-blackmoore]

But that also means that you can’t use them in all situations. He can’t just sneak into a house and kill someone if this person notice that something smells so bad. And Corpses have legs.

[Elyssarain-darkmoon-faire (Elyssarain)]

Fear not, the plot armour is too strong for them to be noticed due to smell. Or they’d have been noticed in Ashenvale in the WoT a lot more easily.

[Elenthas-argent-dawn (Elenthas)]

Fear not, the plot armour is too strong for them to be noticed due to smell.

Plot armour is the laziest objection/complaint.

Characters you don’t like not dying isn’t “plot armour”.

Also: Everyone has “plot armour”…until they die.

[Elyssarain-darkmoon-faire (Elyssarain)]

Also: Everyone has “plot armour”…until they die.

Wake me up when Sylvanas is dead. I shall sleep upon your thoughts in Acherus, until then Brother Knight.

[Janzì-argent-dawn]

So if you really seek to call someone out, better do it right.

dude, after seeing certain posters not necessarily of this thread question players on their ‘IRL morals’ for playing Horde, i don’t really need to do much else than be content in the knowledge that such kind of posters decide to remain and air their thoughts on this forum.

[Friscie-kazzak (Friscie)]

Down with nzoth and let the one true queen rule!
Azshara

[Brigante-argent-dawn (Brigante)]

Thus, the Kaldorei owe the Belves nothing. Wait, and yet they helped their former kin and Kael repaid that favour, too. So, again, both are even.

I’d say up till TBC that’s about right, they had proven able to work together, as you mention, Tyrande and Kael indeed doing so.
TBC kind of put the kybosh on that however, with Kaldorei aggression, so it isn’t that the Kaldorei ‘owe’ the Blood Elves anything (Well, perhaps a rationale for their attacks) so much as the two Species are now in a state of hostilities.

But to make the Kaldorei look like some hysterics with a magic phobia is downright childish. But, anything to get that Belf superiority, eh?^^

No it isn’t. it is called being sarcastic, or if you want to be really picky, reductio ad absurdum and dates back to the ancient Greek philosophers as a perfectly valid tool of discourse.

As for making the Kaldorei look like hysterics well, I think that’s rather a Blizzard problem, their characterisation of Tyrande is just insulting to what she is supposed to be, and then there is that ridiculous ‘ancient’ Kaldorei mage in Aszuna, who talks like a California ‘Valley Girl’ and is so mad she firebolts her own brother because she gets so carried away and hyper.

Its hardly any one elses fault if Blizzard give that impression themselves…

But, anything to get that Belf superiority, eh?^^

Eh? How does that even work? Magic is very much the Belf thing, in the same way that Druidism is much more a Nelf thing, both are better at their speciality than the other?

Salty Blood Elves ten thousand years later after burning their home: “Help! Help! I am being opressed!”

Ermmm, OK, whatever. I’m pretty sure the Blood Elves don’t think that the Kaldorei are oppressing them. Dath’remar’s generation were pretty chill about it, in fact happy about it. The following generation, Lorash’s seem to have had harsher experiences, and would only be going on what they were told happened in Kalimdor, not direct experience. Life apparently was very hard for the Exiles for a time, so yeah, maybe there would be some resentment there. The Following Generation, so pretty much your people like Lor’themar, Halduron, Liadrin, most of the big names would have grown up in Quel’thalas They didn’t suffer the hardships of the previous generation, and they never lived in Kalimdor. Quel’thalas -was- Home. It is likely there is a generation after them, who equally would have no axe to grind about the Exile… Sure, they might refer to it, and use it as an excuse for their hostility towards the Kaldorei (Not that they need one), but that is because as I think I pointed out, Elves in general seem to be pretty self-serving when it comes to others.

I think the Blood Elves are probably more annoyed at the Kaldorei for their unprovoked incursions and sabotage of the things keeping the Blood Elves clinging to survival. I mean when you bring boats, set up camps, hold land and attack innocent natives, that’s generally regarded as aggressive. When you essentially find someone lying in the road who has been violently mugged and is coughing up blood, the natural response is not to go over and start putting the boot in, trying to finish the job. Its certainly not natural to wonder why said person would feel aggrieved towards you once they recover.

I’d say that is more like what happened. Had the Kaldorei managed to mind their own business and not go stab happy on the survivors in Quel’thalas, then said survivors might not be so hostile?

I don’t think the Blood Elves think they are being oppressed, I think they think they are at War, an impression the Night Elves hardly did anything to disabuse them of.

I do love it when I am proven correct about blood elves.

Garithos might have had the wrong methods, but he had the right idea against such treachery and lies.

Yeah, Xenophobia and abuse of assumed power are always good traits in a person. Oh, wait, the other thing. At least he never sided with the Undead over the livi-oh, wait, he did. Well at least he was smart enough not to work with an undead queen advised by an entity known cosmos wide for being of a type of creature that is a watchword for manipulation and deception, betrayal and corruption- Oh, wait, he did.

Well I mean, at least he was a sensible level headed chap, who would never dream of blaming the victim of a crime in one country, for the fact that he wasn’t at his own home when it was attacked, in a different country, I mean what kind of insane attitude is that to take?

Ah, wait a minute… Lets be honest, Garithos was as thick as ten bears, with no redeeming features…

I knew you would pull that card, and - since I enjoy being on these forums for many years - I know you have a Nelf druid too, but that does not alter the fact that you - whenever the argument crops up - side with the Horde against the Kaldorei.

Not really. I can see how it would look that way, but you have to consider the backdrop. When did I start this apparent ‘crusade’ against the Kaldorei? I can tell you when, I can tell you exactly when.
It was when we could not go two days without a histrionic thread saying that Blizzard developers hate Night Elves, that they all Play Horde, when (and I quote) people are lapping up comments like "Blizz hate the Alliance and hate the Kaldorei I mean they’re destroying Darnassus, sure the Forsaken lose Undercity but that’s the Horde, who cares about Undercity "

Have the temerity to go “Well, hang on, I mean that has a massive impact on the geopolitical stage, both cities, and both cities are actually quite important for some of the World Events” And the best response you get was “Yeah, but who cares about Hallows End, we don’t need that”, and the worst was “I might have known, you main Horde, I should have known you were a N*zi”

I mean wow. That’s…amazing. Someone actually felt comfortable and justified with comparing me to a real life organisation of war criminals, ethnic supremacists, a disgraceful and horrific regime. All the more ironic as just the weekend before that statement was made, I was actually at an Antifa demonstration in a nearby city, against a certain large Neon*zi organisation that plagues my country. The irony was staggering.

So yeah. You know what? It was a bit annoying. You couldn’t have a conversation about anything without it being turned into “The Horde are bad and -you- should feel bad for playing them” An attitude which as we see here, has still not left us. And this wasn’t one thread, there would be three or four of them active at the same time, and just when one died, someone thought that their take on the words “Blizzard Devs all hate Kaldorei and play Horde” was unique enough that it needed its own thread.

-That- is what I objected to.

Take Darkshore as an example. The very fact that you tend to tone down the atrocity of the attacking Horde side by refering to the Forsaken’s loss of UC is beyond me.

OK, let me try and help you with that. You don’t tone down an atrocity, by committing an atrocity. In fact your statement there is a perfect example. I toned down the atrocity of the burning of Teldrassil?

I never did.

I literally (In the correct sense of the word) never said that. My -Character- doesn’t even think that, in fact is currently in a lot of hot water over the fact that he ordered his guild to rescue children from the burning Darnassus and drop them off with nearby Alliance units (Fairly nervewracking when it is a massive serverwide RPPVP campaign and you are flagged for PvP ) Darnassus was a hideous escalation, unnecessary and vastly offensive to this character’s Morality. He’s not the only one. A lot of RP’ers Horde side feel the same, and the RP scene is kind of split between Loyalists to Sylvanas, and Loyalists to the Horde. It was a massive atrocity, but to just simply say that ‘referring’ to the loss of Undercity is an attempt to downplay that is simply factually incorrect. I mean what, do you think there is a sliding scale? Does Dresden justify Coventry, or does Coventry justify Dresden? Or, a crazy idea, were they both horrible and vile events?

You must understand that it is only a war crime if the Alliance does it.

I spy someone who has not kept up to date with the WoW story for a loooong while.

Are you sure about that? Do I really have to give you examples, or do you just want to admit you were going for hyperbole?

There’s ultimately no getting around that the faction conflict is a race war, divided purely upon racial lines. Should the Alliance lose, the Horde will surely go for any remaining human enclaves. It’s foolish for them to be neutral quite frankly.

Ehhh, the thing is…It isn’t. Stop thinking just ‘Orcs and Humans’

The sides are not divided along racial lines (For a start the correct term would be ‘Species’ not ‘race’, but lets leave that for now)

Pandaren? Both sides.

High Elves? Both sides. (Just because the majority -call- themselves Blood Elves doesn’t change their Species)

Humans? Mostly Alliance, but the Alteraci are a bit shaky…

Goblins? Some Horde, most Neutral, some even Alliance ‘Renzick the Shiv says Hi! you know, just the 2iC of SI:7’

Undead? Both Factions (Remember, Alliance -have- Undead and even give them command rank, Hi Thassarian!)

Tauren? Well, lets be fair, the Grimtotem have worked for the Alliance in the past against the Horde.

Its not quite that simple…

They are only kept neutral, along with the remaining Paladins out there and dozens of neutral organisations, to avoid steamrolling the Horde. It is one of contemporary fantasy’s worst railroading ever to happen.

Let me just gently correct you there.

“They are only kept neutral, along with the remaining Paladins out there and dozens of neutral organisations, because the authors of the franchise realise they gave all these amazing toys to the ‘goodies’ and yet they are still supposed to be the plucky survivors against the nasty people. It is one of the biggest failings of contemporary fantasy when lazy pastiches of mainstream fantasy fiction are used as the base level, The Goodies are in peril, despite their all powerful characters and items!”

Every time I see people in denial of this, I am reminded of people IRL in denial of RL facts.

Every time I see people actually think this is the case, I wonder whether they have read any fantasy genre novels that have not taken their inspiration solely from that fairly famous franchise. I mean if you want ‘generic as ****’ stories, then that’s cool for you, I guess.

You are missing the point. The neutral factions should reasonably have reviled what the Horde did, and aided the Alliance, because they have been characterized as wanting to protect the people of Azeroth.

I call Bingo.
Alliance races native to Azeroth: 9
Alliance races alien to Azeroth: 2

Horde races native to Azeroth: 9
Horde races alien to Azeroth: 2

Soo…which people of Azeroth are they protecting again?

Just look at what they did for Theramore.

Yes. Broke Neutrality. After a Vote, but still, Broke Neutrality.

To do that, aiding the side not currently engaged in genocide would reasonably be something they want. Yet they do nothing.

Not the first time they have ignored Genocide now is it?

Amazing how this always comes out “Oh well, the Horde did this horrible thing, so the fact that the Neutrals don’t react is just bad writing!”
“Well, they didn’t react when the Alliance did a horrible thing either?”
“Shut up! The Alliance does not do horrible things, thats not the same!”

The original point was that the neutral factions, who have good reason to join the Alliance,

No they don’t. Set aside maniacs like Garithos, Sylvanas, Garrosh and Blackmoore. Who is to say that a world ran by the Horde would be bad.

Would Saurfang be a despot? Would Baine be a Tyrant? Lor’themar a Dictator of cruelty, does Rok’han seem particularly cruel?

Be honest. How much of this is just cookie cutter “The Horde is Evil!” mentality.

You know, it…doesn’t actually seem that bad a life, as a member of the Alliance, or as a member of the Horde. Get rid of the nutters on both sides, and it would be fine.

Now because these organisations -are- neutral, they have a perspective the Factions do not. Johnny Jones, Argent soldier can sit and have a conversation with Halgar Redfist, Orcish Argent soldier, over a drink and a cigarette, and can share experiences, they’ve fought alongside each other, gotten used to each other, trust each other, and realise the one major truth. Humans/Orcs aren’t inherently evil, or even natural enemies, having been on different planets.

When Johnny asks Halgar if he ever thought of going home, Halgar is like “What, Orgrimmar, I don’t think they’d understand my choices.” “No, no, I meant Outlands?” “But Johnny, I’m thirty years old, I was born here, Azeroth is my home, same as yours” “Hmm, Fair point”

The Neutral organisations make it -less- likely that they will pick sides. I mean this is how it works in our real life. The Red Cross, Red Crescent, Medicine sans frontieres don’t check someone’s ethnicity before rendering aid, they don’t check their religion before aiding someone suffering. They are organisations that empathise with all, and they do so because they are made up of all. You don’t -have- to be Christian to be in the Red Cross, you don’t -have- to be Muslim to be in the Red Crescent. The desire to make the world a better place for everyone, is what is paramount.

That’s what neutrals are, not just Neutrals whilst it suits them.

Why Dalaran doesn’t join the alliance to support them against the evil Horde

Because Dalaran is made up of a lot of mages, and presumably therefore intellectuals and scholars, who understand that simply going “The Evil Horde” is a vastly simplistic and childlike view of the world that ill befits a city-state with vast political importance.

Isn’t it ridiculous

the army of the light

Oh it is, it really, really is.

I was commenting on the attitude of Blizzard and certain players who constantly dismiss or excuse Horde war crimes, particularily the ones commited by Sylvanas in the same vein that the novel “War Crimes” did, while overstating Alliance war crimes (and often not even war crimes), due to their Horde bias. It was a hyperbolic statement.

Lets be fair, this is usually in response to people refusing to admit the Alliance can do wrong. I don’t think anyone is for a moment saying that the Horde cannot do wrong. They massively blatantly can, and just when Blizzard start to act all grown up and explore the idea of having leaders who oppose each other but aren’t slavering maniacs they decide to kill them off, and go “N-no, the Goodies have a really Good Guy! and the baddies have a really Bad Girl! Moral Complexity scares us, and Varian and Vol’jin were being too reasonable!”

The only set of Guidelines we have as to what constitute War Crimes are from the novel by the same name, so lets revisit those, and see who did what.

Genocide,

Well, yeah, both sides have done that. If you actually look at the dictionary definition of Genocide, both sides have done that.

Murder,
Uhh, Yeah? Again, both sides have done that…on pretty massive scale…

Forcible transfer of population,

Again, both Horde and Alliance have done this. To themselves and each other.

Enforced disappearance of individuals,

Errm, Yep. Both sides have done this. Just as a reminder, the Defias Brotherhood actually had a very good point. There’s a name for it when you make someone work without pay. Then sending in a hit team to kill the union leader is…yeah…that’s enforced disappearance of Individuals.

Enslavement,
Neatly followed by this gem. Yep, Both sides do this. It has long been a ‘thing’, I mean good grief, why do you think Go’el has the name ‘Thrall’, What do you think poor Taretha Foxton was, what about the forced labourers both sides use in Jade Forest?

The abduction of children,
Jade Forest again. Both sides quite happily use not just slave labour, but -Child- slave labour.

Torture,
Again, both sides do this (and interestingly, so do Dalaran) I mean the Horde obviously do it, but the Alliance do it with panache. I mean seriously, the only way they could do Torture in a more villainous way than force choking a civilian dangling them over a shark before dropping them, would involve tying them to the train tracks at Grimrail Depot. Theramore boys seem a bit savage even before it was attacked, chap putting out a prisoner’s eyes with his bare hands. Pretty grim.

The killing of prisoners [of war],
Yeah, again, both sides have done this…actually, wait… The only time we see Prisoners of War being repatriated in game, is by the Horde, who return prisoners to the Alliance. This is under the command of that evil chappy….Garrosh Hellscream. at Warsong Hold…

Forced pregnancy,

-What-. I mean what the Actual…OK, lets not be overly coy, we all know what the crime referred to is. A vile, disgusting crime, with a name four letters long, begins with R. Just Vile. Vile and indefensible. Right. No defence. No one is defending that crime Lets just be clear on that. That is grim and horrible and indefensible.

Garrosh also never ordered it. Or was on the planet when it happened. Or was in the same Timeline when it happened. In fact…Garrosh was entirely innocent of that accusation. I mean Garrosh was a grade A butthole, but he was innocent of that accusation. I mean otherwise… Why is Anduin not being charged with the same? I mean Garrosh was not born, existing or on the reality when that vile crime was committed. Anduin was not born, existing, but would be in the reality when said vile crime was committed…

Hang on… The Alliance have committed that four letter crime, the Horde on Azeroth have not. We must Accuse the Horde! Whoah, wait, The most famous example of that crime on Azeroth was carried out by the Alliance, that’s…not OK…thats really not OK…

If you think that is OK, then…yeah, you’re not OK

[and] the wanton destruction of cities, towns, and villages not justified by military or civilian necessity."

This is brilliant, this is awesome. This is where anyone with any military background reads this and goes “Christie Golden has not got a clue about what constitutes a War Crime.”

“Not Justified by Civilian Necessity” What on earth does she mean there? That’s not a War Crime, because that has never happened as a matter of Civilian Necessity! I mean that has never happened, and no one has ever envisaged a situation where such a thing would happen. I mean what does that even look like? You frickin’ politely take down some bricks and disassemble an entire -CITY- with care and consideration. That’s cool. When that happens, just put Warcraft on Hold for like, ten, twenty years, that’s how long it would take. Maybe, I mean I’m guessing, know why I’m guessing? Because it has never happened before. Know why it has never happened before? Because it is not a War Crime! I mean…that…just…isn’t a War Crime Because it is not a crime that can be committed during wartime by definition. You are either at War, or you are not. You are not the town planning committee, nor do you hold the mortgage of the people who live there. Destruction by Civil Necessity is not a War Crime, because at the point such would be deemed necessary (And bear in mind this is your own people, not enemy civilians) then it is necessary for a reason going above and beyond normal civilian affairs, and also you have not formally declared War upon your own civilians. I mean, that’s madness! If you knock someone’s house down, that is property damage, a criminal offence under civil Law, certainly, it isn’t a -War- Crime! Is the person whose house it is a body politic in their own right, or part of a body politic you are at war with?

It is a civil Crime, like shoplifting, or carjacking. its not a War Crime.

So, Golden hasn’t got a clue, lets hit the next one, this is great…

Military Necessity?

yep, both sides did that.
Military Necessity. Lets just examine that a moment. So it is a War Crime to destroy Military facilities of the enemy, in order to prevent them from maintaining a military force. Is that absolutely what she thinks constitutes a War crime?

That’s Amazing. So killing an enemy soldier is a War Crime? Destroying a Blacksmith’s Forge used to make weapons is a War Crime?

Which Facility did Garrosh order the destruction of that was not justified by Military Necessity. Go on. Say it. Go on. There are two answers you always get here, one of them Garrosh never ordered and executed the Officer who did order it, and the other was a legitimate Military Target, and made so by Jaina.

The Horde have not actually done that. When they attack places, they tend to be military targets, unlike the Alliance. I mean, sure, Baine says Taurajo was legit, but Baine wasn’t playing prior to Cata so didn’t see the civilian village. Baine is also Christie Golden’s Token Horde favourite. Not so sure he is a reliable source.

So…yeah. She doesn’t know what War crimes are and unless her suggestion is that the August Celestials are favouring the Alliance, nor do they.

Those charges would have been laughed out of a War crimes Tribunal, or rather, not laughed out, but just dismissed out of hand.

You can keep them. They smell and don’t look like sociable persons. I noticed a disadvantage ob Forsaken Rogues. What smells like here?

Clearly not Forsaken Rogues, which would be odourless…

I believe in lore that some of them have deliberately feigned being corpses, probably for this exact reason.

To be fair, they are room temperature, have no pulse, and don’t breathe. I mean those are pretty good criteria for pretending to be dead…

Fear not, the plot armour is too strong for them to be noticed due to smell. Or they’d have been noticed in Ashenvale in the WoT a lot more easily.

They should not smell of anything. Same as Alliance Undead, they just don’t smell… they’re not rotting, they’re not decaying, they are absolutely static.

[Sereluna-silvermoon]

I’d say that is more like what happened. Had the Kaldorei managed to mind their own business and not go stab happy on the survivors in Quel’thalas, then said survivors might not be so hostile?

Ah yes, remember all the horrible things they did, like, attacking civilians, oh no, that did not happen, destroy homes, no, not that either, stop the blood elves from sucking fel energy, no, that did not happen either. But they dares spy on the blood elves. That is a crime that can only be repaid by genocide. The fact that their first Meeting With the blood elves involved them helping their Prince be damned!

Soo…which people of Azeroth are they protecting again?

All of them…?

Yes. Broke Neutrality. After a Vote, but still, Broke Neutrality.

Exactly my point.

Not the first time they have ignored Genocide now is it?

I do think it is.

Amazing how this always comes out “Oh well, the Horde did this horrible thing, so the fact that the Neutrals don’t react is just bad writing!”
“Well, they didn’t react when the Alliance did a horrible thing either?”
“Shut up! The Alliance does not do horrible things, thats not the same!”

No it is more like: The Alliance does bad thing. Horde does atrocious thing. The Neutral factions do nothing. Saying that the Horde does worse things than the Alliance is not the same as saying the Alliance never does anything bad. But then, if you did not make the conversation about that, you would run out of arguments.

Who is to say that a world ran by the Horde would be bad.

The surivors of Gilneas, Theramore, Lordaeron and Telrassil would say that. But then I Guess you would not see that as obvious because the Horde never does anything wrong in your mind. See how easy this is?

That’s what neutrals are, not just Neutrals whilst it suits them.

Ah, so they are dedicated to being neutral, no matter what. Here I thought these factions existed to protect Azeroth, and opted for neutrality so they could work with both the Horde and Alliance, nut you have enlightened me to the fact that they are neutral, for the sole sake of being neutral! They are immensly dedicated to being neutral. That is their whole Identity. Is one of the factions acting as a threath to the people of Azeroth and would the world be better of if they stopped? Yes! Should the neutral factions do anything? Nope. That is not what they are about. Their factions only exist to be neutral. Why? Because Johnny and Halgar has a Nice conversation while braiding each other’s hair.

If the Horde goes “Let us set fire to all the night elves, butn their homes, children and holy places just to make the Alliance suffer!”
and the Alliance goes “No, please do not do that!” the reasonable choice for the Argent Dawn is of course “Azeroth is their home, same as yours!”, because clearly, the lives of countless innocents is less important than Halgar.

And anyone who says otherwise has the “Horde is evil” mentality.

So…yeah. She doesn’t know what War crimes are and unless her suggestion is that the August Celestials are favouring the Alliance, nor do they.

Those charges would have been laughed out of a War crimes Tribunal, or rather, not laughed out, but just dismissed out of hand.

I do not really give cr*p about your personal opinion on war crimes. You seem to have the idea that there is no degree to crimes, that just because something the Alliance did falls into the same category as something bad the Horde did, they are both equally bad, no one can see any difference between them, and thus the neutral factions would have no reason to think one is more benevolent than the other.

Let us look at a comparison: Your example of the Alliance commiting genocide: “Nothing what so ever” vs the Horde burning Teldrassil. You can whatabout this as much as you want, but the fact remaind that the Horde does far worse than the Alliance, and the fact that you cannot see so is only due to your bias.

Seriosuly, you sound like Trump talking about how there is “violence on many sides”.

[Leíá-argent-dawn (Leíá)]

Seriosuly, you sound like Trump talking about how there is “violence on many sides”.

As a Trump fan, I’m not sure if I should support this or be against it…

[Shammysparks-argent-dawn]

It was a bit annoying. You couldn’t have a conversation about anything without it being turned into “The Horde are bad and -you- should feel bad for playing them” An attitude which as we see here, has still not left us. And this wasn’t one thread, there would be three or four of them active at the same time, and just when one died, someone thought that their take on the words “Blizzard Devs all hate Kaldorei and play Horde” was unique enough that it needed its own thread.

While I really understand the point you are making, has it not occured to you that it is Blizzard who are actually to blame for this sort of ‘‘forum onslaught’’?

The third largest player base was being hit with a hitherto unparalleled disregard for game bonding/immersion by destroying the focus of their identity - which capitals usually stand for.

You say that people felt less empathy for the destruction of UC. Well, are you really surprised? a) they are the aggressors who started this faction war (and I am not talking skirmishes here (i.e. Greymane), but war) b) while UC is in ruins and laid barren by the same population that used to dwell in these walls, Teldrassil was truly a victim in this whole sordid affair. To me, and taking all facts into account, the outcry was predestined.

As a Trump fan

omg, this will no doubt get the Farage fans to circle jerk now^^

[Leíá-argent-dawn (Leíá)]

omg, this will no doubt get the Farage fans to circle jerk now^^

I regret nothing!