Why PVP ( Arena ) wont be fun anymore


#1

Intro
Imma Glad Destrolock Wotlk and BFA if somebody questioning my xp. And ye i know bfa glad means nothing.

Pruning
Main source of the Problem that arena is bad. Will not get fixed. ( Was sayed in Blizz Q&A few weeks ago)

Randomness and Procs
Who thought its a good idea to add over 9000 random procs to every spec with this stupid trait System? And in addition to that having like 2 active abilitys and 123 passive ones per spec?

Class depth and design
Here is another Big point. I will explain this with some examples:

Druid:

  • Every spell can be used in nearly all shapeshift forms

  • Make magic spells only be usable in normla / moonkin form. Heals only in normal form. What is this bullcrap moonfire casting bears

Rogue

  • Stealth cooldown is like nothing

  • Revert back to 10 secs so u get punished if u get out of stealth for some reasons

  • add recuperate instead of the actual heal ( just press a button to heal x amount of hp vs spend combopoints for it )

Warrior

  • Every spell usable in every stance.

  • Let warriors only spellreflect in def stance and use certain offensive abilitys in off stance.

Shamans

  • where are the totems at?

  • Give them more totems that matters and make them think what totem to press when.

DH

  • Remove this crap ferrari class

Destros

  • stupid turrets with to much def and no abilitys to press

  • Give them more utility ( shadowflame, fel flame and so on). Nerf dmg and tankyness by a good amount and make CB hit though shields once again.

  • Make affli dots and UA dispell matter once again and add more utlility … remove demon armor for destro and affli and compensate it with active abilitys.

Hunter / mages / dk / monks / paly / priest

  • i rly never played them nor know what they would need.

Overall Mechanics

  • Spellreflect is up 3 secs… dont make it retardproove … let it just reflect one spell ( or two if on same global ).

Stupid high burst vs low sustain
Another big point… change that to more sustain heavy meta with less burst… UP the overalldps and lower the healing to prevent that stupid damp meta.

VendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendorsVendors****Vendors

Conclusion
Add more Active spells, remove passive spells and millions of procs, increase sustain and lower burst


#2

Didn’t bother reading past this, but you don’t understand these classes at all if that’s what you think will fix them. 1st: There was depth to stances back in the day. Just having one stance and one passive non-stance is not going to improve anything by just adding a few abilities to the stance. Not to mention the moronic shield visual. Also, don’t forget everything that was pruned from warriors.
2nd: Shamans does indeed feel better with more totems. But again, you’re so shallow if you think it will fix anything. The functions of totems back in the day were very different, with TotemTimers being an almost essential addon for pvp, and the different subsets of totem elements was pruned entirely and is sorely missed.

It’s not about just what little you think you’ve figured out. It’s about so much more. You just touched a fraction of the surface on what is wrong with class designs today.


#3

I agree on all those points. They should take end of wotlk as an example since all classes and spec where balanced and playable (except like holy priest maybe)
Also, give the choice to melee between kick and stun. Both is stupid.


#4

this. i just sit down and give myself 5 mins to write the most essential things that came into my mind… i explicitly wrote this are SOME example that came into my mind


#5

Well, i liked when you could go defstance with shield and use a shieldbash to interrupt a cast :smiley:


#6

Going def stance just to interrupt a cast was only useful 1on1 though. Outdpsing was better in BGs, in group battles. Because the value of pushing out damage was worth way more in the group battles than just interrupting that one school the target was using to cast, after pummel had been used. Of course, if your goal was to live as long as possible and you were 2vX as a warr then going with the shield with a healer on you was good too.
But otherwise, it was just better to kill what could be killed and die in the process if you were alone vs. more than one.

People tend to forget the actual downsides to swapping stances back in the day, I have no idea why though.

Then wotlk came as an abomination with inflated talent tree points clearly beyond what the talent trees were designed for, and so wotlk saw many changes in the patches, not to mention the impact the gear had. Specifically speaking, for warrs, stance dancing took on a whole new level in wotlk (it was a thing in vanilla and burning crusade too, just not in such clear-cut rewards for pulling it off well, and didn’t include as many abilities in the “dancing” itself when it was useful to do it. It was more situational, and more individualistic.) with a macro to be able to do it properly.

Not to mention what it did to mages’ talent trees and whatnot. It really did some messed up things to the “fantasy” of the classes’ specs themselves, and diminished the uniqueness (not removed, diminished - there’s a difference inb4 anyone interprets it the wrong way) of each spec the classes had.


#7

Here we go decition making in some situations thats what i want in this game. instead of that brainafk dmg slotmashine proc sht we have now


(Deepoxysbabe) #8

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#9

Well, the bottom line was just that Battle stance provided the stable damage output, while the Def stance provided the most survivability and utility, and Berserker stance provided the most burst in the damage output but at the cost of taking more damage yourself. However, what stood out even more than this was the way each stance changed the way Rage was generated. Each stance had its ups and downs.
And it cost a lot of rage most of the time to swap stances willy-nilly just to interrupt another cast with shield bash.

Also, wotlk made some pretty big changes to the passive differences embedded in the stances themselves, which is another reason why wotlk shouldn’t be seen as a representative of the “ultimate form” of the original class designs, which I’ve seen some people implying it is.

Oh, and being able to identify which stance would provide you the most Rage generation, and/or survivability, and/or the most damage output, all came down to personal preference and decision-making as well, depending on the fluid situational read of the moment.


(Deepoxysbabe) #10

Either WOTLK (s8?) or MOP (s15) should be taken as an example of class design, period. There was simply no better design. Classic and TBC was pretty much a 3 button spam, nothing new, Cata is arguable, had diversity but personally i didnt really like it and also my knowledge is kinda imited.

Wod–>Legion–> bfa prunned everything out of the game. Skill isn’t superior to comp/classes anymore as it was before, class/game depth disappeared COMPLETLY compared to before.

Wrath --> great class design, you had alot of options even tho i didn’t like to have 10x the same spells (talking about ranks)

Mop–> great class design aswell, everything was OP / viable which makes it already balanced. You can pretty much play free flow and do whatever you feel like. You are not stuck in some rotation and even the way you deal dmg changes drastically depending who you face / what your opponent is doing.

I’ve actually played all of those and I’ll tell you that the majority of people (including them who left) were prefering S15/ S8 in terms of class design ( according to streamer polls & personal opinion from streamer such as Soda cdew and so on. (Won’t make a big thing out of it because they don’t talk for their community)

Talking about good player ? Been talking to people like Trill, rubcub, kubzy (Mostly people i know back from those nasty nolifing PTR times) and they are all into MOP and would play it aswell if there was a proper scripted p-server (obviously can’t & won’t announce any server here) but we all know that getting back to the design would be the easiest solution.

Is it even worth arguing about such things in the wow Forum ? I mean the majority of people who still play this game are probably the ones blizzard tries to adress with their “changes” so you will probably get that kind of feedback here aswell.


#11

Shows you never played warr in vanilla pvp. BC did dumb it down a bit, but like I said, managing the stances was a frequent thing in vanilla. It was just that most warriors had no idea what to do. I still haven’t encountered anyone in WoW who could identify with the feeling of stance dancing in vanilla, all ppl seem to know of is the wotlk iteration of it.

I don’t count private servers at all, they’re just nonsensical incomplete emulations that filled in holes in the coding with their own guess-work.


(Deepoxysbabe) #12

This topic basically has “arena” in its title, i don’t even want to compare it to vanilla.

Well since you dont understand them, you cant just assume they fill the holes with their “own guess-work” if you take a look, most of spell formulars & mechanics are properly documanted on 3rd party sites (sadly not directly from blizzard but they have/had an insight on their DB so its basically the same)

Also playing private server is probably 20x more fun than BFA legion or warlords of downcraft … i mean, come on lol

Point still remains, WOTLK / MOP had the best fast paced PvP with the most game/class depth. That’s just how it is and a warrior in vanilla who doesnt know how to stancedance properly won’t really proof me wrong tho
*Just looking at old warrior footage shows me that, yes, it is still better than the current game but you have far less options than in above mentioned expansions.


#13

I know they filled the holes with their own guess-work, they’ve even admitted to doing so.

And what you apparently don’t know is that they guessed the stats values. Some private servers even made blatant changes to them on their own, in order to “balance” it the way they wanted to. You really shouldn’t put so much faith in private servers, bro.


(Deepoxysbabe) #14

Who is “they” is there only 1 private server ? If some 3rd world private server does random fixes or implements random formulars (if they do and assume its right, it cant be a proper server afterall) does it means everyone does that ?

I dont put “faith” in private server and i please you to show me where i did, i just said its more fun to play and from my personal experience i can say that i’m right about that ?? That’s my personal opinion, has nothing to do with putting “faith” in them since i dont.


#15

Nostalrius is the most glaring example. But the thing is that they’ve reverse-engineered the source code, Blizzard has never publically released it. Learn the going-ons about this before you speak, mkay?

They’ve ALL done so. Blizzard hasn’t released it for any version of the game.


(Deepoxysbabe) #16

Dude, thats basically what every server “does”. They “GET” a proper core (buy/just get them for free (budget method) and start working on it till they release it. do you think they built the core from scratch xD ? Do you think Nostalrius did anything but download a clean core ? Vanilla was 10 years ago son, you couldnt even “reverse engineering” it now if you wanted to

Did you just tell me to “learn the going ons” but tell me that Nostalrius used “reverse-engineering” ? Dude, they bought/got the core from somewhere (probably a really clean one) and started working on that, classic cores are out for AGES and people back then got them already.

Also you keep talking about some vanilla private server like dude … read the headline, “ARENA”, vanilla is completly irrelevant in that topic


#17

No, I wasn’t really talking about Nostalrius specifically. I was talking about ‘they’, as in the private server community.


(Deepoxysbabe) #18

You should really google “reverse engineering” because that’s not what you need to build a server. Anyways, i’m not really into discussing about a vanilla server and

I’m playing on private server without “own guessed fixes” but fixes based on changelogs & spell formulars. It’s actually that simple :wink:

also /upping this thread for a good reason :slight_smile:


#20

Could i message you ingame for that p-server thing? Just for interest :wink:


#21

Changing stealth cd would do nothing in pvp due to subterfuge, only pve so it wobt happen.