Why should we be happy about getting slice and dice as subtlety in shadowlands?
Why not get gouge instead? Isn’t the upfront damage much better without having anything to juggle that you have to, since you get energy and more poison procs?
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i dont have alpha. judging from the alpha talent calculator u can extend to see class/spec abilities.
level 10 passive energetic recovery = while slice and dice is active u generate 8 energy every 2 seconds.
this will help in single target situations and increase cp generation. increased poison application
No need for Gouge, you already have an insane CC potential. Would ruin PvP.
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this passive is not active… it’s not working…it’s not in spell book… it’s beed in WOWHead database for whole Legion and BfA (maybe because it’s in game data).
This passive is from WOD.
i have already told you this in your topic…
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mybad they are quite confusing then 
Honestly, I think SnD is a relic of the past, and it has no place in current game. All it does is slow down the rotation needlessly. It’s not exciting and fun, using it gives no feedback to you. It’s just a buff you keep up to not suck. The class has no use for it at this point. Just let it remain as a memory.
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Just another boring maintenance selfbuff in our already “check buff/debuff timers” rotation, worst ability they could have brought back. AND it’s without the energy regen part AND cannot be refreshed by Envenom like in the past AND and doesn’t “pandemic” meaning u cant refresh it before it runs out to get an increased duration. Lol.
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the current snd in alpha is a completely useless spell that literally does nothing , some random guy just put it in the spell book so the people can see 1 extra thing that is pretty much useless
So you would rather have the rotation of a demon hunter where no buffs are neccessary just mash every button that is available and prioritized?
Yes. I’m also playing WW monk, apart from rogue, and rotation is much better. You come, hit your abilities, you go. With rogue nooo, you need 1 bleed, then spend CPs in another bleed, and then you can finally start doing something.
Like who decided that assassination should be like affliction warlock? Watch 2 bleeds + maintain 2 selfbuffs, it’s so cemented now, but if you think about it… like wtf is this garbage? And they’re adding a third selfbuff. Amazing.
Look at dagger rogue in classic / TBC - huge high-energy cost crits, energy pooling etc.
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It’ll be used in raid and maybe M+…but i dont see what it will change in PVP when i dont recall it being used much in PVP since recuperate took priority.
i have changed my mind on SND…
For assa it’s ok but it’s just another thing to keep up… i would rather have Legion Artifact Ability. (it was good combo with Toxic Blade)
It’s not rly good for Sub… in BfA we have to keep up Nightblade 16sec DoT…
in SL we have to keep up 2 things: Rupture + SND…
i don’t wanna have another assa playstyle…
(again in legion we had Artifact ability that GENERATES CP AND ENERGY !! not spend !!)
Recuperate gave energy back in Cataclysm so it had priority. In both MoP and WoD (so two out of the three expansions with Recuperate being a thing) it was SnD that gave the energy back as Sub so not only it had priority over Recuperate, but you HAD to have it up or you had no damage at all. So, it was definitely used in PvP.
We’re not there yet, but in WoD SnD was CRAZY as Sub because even aside the energy regeneration it offered, it scaled with Mastery (increases the potency of finishers) so you had very high attack speed and poison application in the last patch of the expansion, making for lot of sustained damage (that plus rupture) to have something half meaningful in between goes. And this is exactly what Sub does not have right now.
I think the more tools the better (it’s essential for a rogue!), because you have more spells, more game styles to choose from, and to switch between, if you want to. Gouge was not only for PvP but also for PvE to do more/any dmg to foes with backstab or to attack with other ability without the risk of beeing blocked (ofc now block isn’t a problem anymore). SnD give us more hits = more energy regen, and more dmg. And if Blizz will decide to give a Sub some spells to use with only melee weapon restriction as eriler, Sub would be more competitive in playstyle with more sustained dmg. I bet a lot of rogue players want to make a choice single/multiple targets and burst/sustained dmg builds like other classes (monk? dh?) without a necessity to change their favorite spec to antoher.
In addition, I think the most fun in early expansions was the freedom allowing us to mix a little bit one spec with another thanks to talent tree. Giving us more tools in SL (chosen reasonably ofc), would give us something from that freedom.
What do you think?
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I would rather have abilities feel meaningful, instead of just something that is there just to slow down things, force you to have more ramp up. All specs have plenty of things to keep track of even without an outdated ability forced back.
All of the benefits of SnD (more hits, more energy) could easily be baked into other abilities. Assassination has Venomous Wounds, Sub has Symbols and Relentless Strikes and Shadow Techniques, Outlaw has Combat Potency, Restless Blades and Main Gauche. SnD doesn’t offer anything extra to those, it’s just another maintenance buff.
More abilities, a more varied toolkit is a good thing, long as your tools are for different things. However, there comes a point of diminishing returns, as having a bunch of hammers, tools for the same job, is just creating clutter in the kit, instead of allowing you to do more things. More of the same tools just means you have less chances to do different things.
Agree, we need more different tools to do different things, not the same one 
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You shouldn’t be hyped. Buff maintenance and ramp up dmg is garbage design.
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