Will the horde leadership fail?

Lore Story
1

After the conclusion of the fourth war in 8.2.5 I think it’s right in assuming that horde leadership is on it’s last leg. And clearly not doing too well, considering it has shrunk to a skeleton cast of mostly second tier people.

Just a little clarification for a better picture.

Cairne is dead.
Vol’jin is dead.
Sylvanas and Gallywix are gone.
Kael’thas is dead.
All the old orc leaders died twice. Counting the AU in. Especially the other Durotan.

That means the last non replaced leader so far is Bob Theron. The rest is allied races who don’t count for the overall image, since they joined like 10 minutes ago. Another big hit to leadership. Like Lor’themar or Thrall dying and the horde may implode on itself. How did it come so far in the first place? Does blizzard just hate the horde? Is there a way to fix it? Would it be better if we just deleted the team all together? So many questions.

What is your current view of the horde? Do you still cling to some faction pride or did blizzard sour the pot for you too much? I’m curious.

2

Just being incompetent and doing nothing would be a step up from the Horde leadership we saw before. And I trust Baine’s super friends to do that. That already is the fix the Horde needed.

1 Like
3

I don’t.

I feel like they enjoy writing the Horde a lot, but they do not enjoy building things up, they much prefer tearing things down.

For all we know, we’ll soon have another Orc yelling:“ENOUGH WITH THE STUPID COUNCIL! I’M THE WARCHIEF NOW!” and half the Horde following them for yet another round of youknowwhat, while the Council of displaced leaders will have to fight a Guerilla war against their own populace until they call in the Alliance to explicitly watch them dispose their usurper without their help to prove that they really really are better now.

5 Likes
4

Well at least you admit that the alliance turned us into their vassal. I love people who are honest.

5

Nah, but you are now down to our level! Enjoy the council fantasy, I can really recommend it, if you want the factions to do nothing. Which is indeed a big step up in my eyes. Make sweet hate to the factions.

6

Unless Blizzard steps up their game in terms of faction building, and spends enough resources on appropriate and detailed attention, the current set of secondary leaders the Horde is currently leaning on will inevitably make them “subservient” (in story terms), to the cast of well founded characters with rich background the Alliance has to offer.
Basically, the future story will inevitably gravitate towards the likes we had in Legion: An alliance leaning character leading the charge and becoming the protagonist of a story where Horde races play as secondaries that tag along his or her ideals.
Be that person Anduin, Jaina, Malfurion or Velen.

Because, being realistic, why would any writer lean on the likes of Voss or Eitrigg, when you have the established and known faces of Malfurion and Jaina.

1 Like
7

So it’s Argus all over again. Just as I feared. Damm.

8

Vol’jin was useless, Sylvanas was mad, Kael’thas was insane, and all the old orcish leaders were crazy. Aside from Cairne, nobody of value was lost.

1 Like
9

Don’t think so.
Lor’themar replaced Kael’Thas and if he died there’s other characters as Lady Liandri.
Baine replaced Cairne.
Rokhan is replacing Vol’Jin.
Thrall was absent, from the Horde, until recently, let’s hope he can stay for longer this time.
If he died. Well let’s hope it will be in a time period one of his children has enough age to replace him.
Like what happened between Varian and Anduin.

Apparently the writers just like to kill characters for the sake of the plot.
How many characters have died ?
I would say: too many.
Even my favorite character was killed before Warcraft 3: Taretha Foxton.

If Varian can be killed than anyone can be killed, even Anduin, but first he would need to have a adult son to replace him, just like his father.

I think the ball will be on the Alliance side this time.
Thrall Horde was based on principles that got shattered, by Garrosh and Sylvanas.

As other posters explained before, there’s no reason to not have a full scale conflict, between the Horde and the Alliance after Teldrassil.

There’s already too much blood between Thrall’s Horde and the new Alliance.
Camp Taraujo, Theramore, Purge of Dalaran, Teldrassil, Undercity, Dazar’Alor.
Just to name a few examples.

Anduin is a peaceful leader, unfortunately the writing as always paired him with the worst Warchief as possible, in his time period: Sylvanas Windrunner.

Biggest irony as usual, the Horde is now ready for a ceasefire, and maybe a long last peace since now, with the removal of Warchief position, none can go above the others and launch a full scale war without consulting others first as Sylvanas did.

Warchief position only worked when Thrall was leading the Horde.
Blackhand and Orgrim Doomhammer were warmongers, as Garrosh and Sylvanas.
Vol’Jin is the exception not the rule.

But the Alliance, thanks to Sylvanas will not believe it as this was not the first time.
Worst an entire Alliance capital burned, with civilians inside, because of the former ceasefire.

There will never be peace in Azeroth.
Something always happens:

  • Varian goes to meet Jaina at Theramore, for diplomatic reasons, he gets kidnapped and enslaved by the Orcs who don’t recognize him, as King of Stormwind.
  • The Horde and the Alliance fight together at the Wrathgate just to have both armies decimated by Grand Apothecary Putress with the blame falling on the Horde.
  • Garrosh replaced Thrall because every single entety in Azeroth is completely useless to stop the Cataclysm and we all know how that ended.
  • Horde and Alliance fight together, Gul’dan, just to have a military disaster, where the Horde is blamed for retreating, leaving Varian to die.
  • Vol’Jin gets stabbed by a legion foot soldier and chose Sylvanas.
    Because:
    “My team believes that continuity exists to enhance a story, not to tie the hands of creators” - Sean Copeland, Historian Supervisor"

Yes I believe they will fail, just like Anduin failed to keep the former ceasefire after Legion.
Because even though Sylvanas is gone, she left a very vengeful Tyrande behind.

Will Tyrande be Sylvanas version of the Alliance now ?
I believe so.

As always will than have people, blaming the council for not stepping up to the task of defending the Horde bests interests as Garrosh and Sylvanas did.

BFA just do a amazing job making us look at the past through: Daelin Proudmmore, Sylvanas speech to Saurfang in a “Good War”, Jaina’s nightmares, Thrall speech to Jaina, Saurfang speech to Anduin, that is utterly futile to believe in a better tomorrow, because there isn’t.

Even the afterlife isn’t safe from being raided and plundered.

That’s my opinion.
Cheers.

4 Likes
10

On the alliance side? Not nearly enough. Apart from Varian their roster is undamaged. They have literally plot armor. The Zuldazar raid portrayed that perfectly. All the new AR faces won’t matter for the bigger story.

He died for shock value. Then the horde lost Vol’jin for parity. The quality of the scenes speak volumes here.

Thrall had a naive dream. The horde was never good to begin with. Saurfang admits that to Anduin even.

Too much glass was broken in order to actually have peace again. It will return. And once more with senseless horde aggression.

Not really. Just the leadership changes. The people are still bloodthirsty monsters. I’m sure Tyrande will do something to expose it.

No. Blizzard is not willing to write the alliance as aggressor when they can villain batt more red leaders instead.

Cheers in return. I respect your opinion but I believe it’s a false assumption.

3 Likes
11

ofc will fail thats only way blizz can even write horde leadership.
And alliance be passive idiots that forgive anything an evrything cause reasons???

12

The horde is nothing.

No. How? The only times when I felt I was actually doing some good in bfa was while helping the Zandalari. And where are our allies now? Forgotten, as it seems. Rastakhan is dead, the Zandalari have no voice in the council and aren’t even mentioned any more.

Other than that, what Susanoo said.

Yes, the horde leadership will fail. It may look like they’re all in agreement and perfect harmony right now whereas the Alliance has internal tensions, but who are they kidding.
Tyrande and Genn will get a lecture from Anduin and fall in line again soon enough, and the horde council will do absolutely nothing until one of them suddenly throws a fit and starts the next war and then, after Shadowlands, we get MoP 3.0 because that worked so well the two times before.

2 Likes
13

Seems legit. Sadly. Blizzard really turned the stacks down to 0.

Suddenly Sylvanas laughing in the background.

1 Like
14

Well well well, would you look at this little atrocity, hehehe…first, you need help from Horde champions to solve trivial problems instead of you and now, you trash the Horde. Heheh…

Make no mistake, war is coming.
With all its horror…
…and all its glory.

1 Like
15

I agree, there is no mention of the Zandalari, that is bad.

However, you seem to misunderstand the relation between the Zandalari and the Horde.

The Zandalari are not in the Horde, the Darkspear trolls, the orcs, the Blood Elves, the Vulpera, etc etc, they are Horde. The Zandalari is just an allied Kingdom to the Horde, but they are not Horde.

The Horde has no say over the Zandalari and the Zandalari has no say over the Horde. That is basically the relation here. Kinda unique from other races in both the Alliance and the Horde.

But the Zandalari could certainly have been mentioned in some other way.

Oh, 'tis also the Alliance’s own fault that the Zandalari really started pushing against them along with the Horde.

As always, the Alliance are written to create their own enemies. It has happened with almost all the playable Horde races by now. I think only Highmountain tauren, pandaren, orcs, and the undead are the exceptions here.

1 Like
16

Talanji is set up as one of the most probable Azeroth-based characters that might have a role in Shadowlands, though. A racial leader who is bound to a death entity… which, coincidentally, has the only revealed dungeon in SL. Also, there is her role in the Vol’jin storyline. So I kind of doubt that she will be forgotten.

3 Likes
17

Yes, I know the Zandalari are only allied to the horde and not part of it ( thankfully ).
What I meant to say was more that they don’t seem to have someone in the council to speak on their behalf. Not even Rokhan, who spent the major part of this expansion helping Talanji in Zandalar :frowning:
What does Talanji even think about the peace treaty? We don’t know anything and it’s frustrating.

@Wimbert That’s what I hope as well!

2 Likes
18

Why should they?

The Horde has no say over the Zandalari and the Zandalari has no say over the Horde.

Talanji made that very clear, even directly to Sylvanas at the time.

Even if the Horde has a peace treaty with the Alliance, does not mean that the Zandalari needs to have one too.

But I agree, I also wonder what the Zandalari thinks about all this. For all we know they have the same desire for vengeance and Tyrande has, the Zandalari, like the Night Elves, were attacked “unprovoked” and the Zandalari king even died at the hands of the Alliance “unprovoked”.

3 Likes
19

No.

/10chars

20

Well…
Even if the relation started as one amongst equals, Blizzard has already started brushing them under the same carpet as every other race that belongs in the faction (be them allied or core).

People shouldnt expect any kind of favouritism or preferential treatment as Zandalari. Because mechanically speaking, they’ll end up behaving just as every other Horde race.
The issues derived from a distinct treatment (both mechanical and storywise), are to great for Blizzard to bother handling appropriately.

Nah, they’ll be thrown amidst the rest of allies, and the speech thrown by Talanji will turn into just a mean to make their addition not as forceful. Even if in the end they are treated like everyone else.

We already have indicators for this.
When the Naga problem resurfaced again, the Zandalari went to have an audience with Baine. And they were treated just like the Maghar and the Nightborne.

Id be the first to cheer for a third playable faction. But just like Night elves, the Zandalari will be thrown under the same category as the rest of allied races for their respective factions.

1 Like