I wish I could play my Cold Sorceress on Hell and have fun

General Discussion
1

I tried Hell a little and was turned off by even basic zombies being completely immune to Cold.

I know that Diablo II might be not a true RPG per se. But I also don’t like meta and cookie cutter builds. I want to go full frost offensive and some fire and lightning utility like Warmth and Teleport.

I would’ve rather spent more points on Cold tree than investing into some — apparently obligatory — Hydra or Meteor. Doesn’t feel right for my build.

Also, Cold Mastery implies -120% Cold Resistance. Shouldn’t my spells penetrate Cold Immunity then, dealing at least 20% cold damage?

2

Cold Mastery don’t break cold immunity.

You should use a Sunder Charm:
https://maxroll.gg/d2/resources/sundered-charms

3

Alright, good post.

Quick trip down memory lane (skip it, it’s not THAT important): More than 20 years ago, CM was actually able to break C immunities. That’s why monster CR is often so much higher than LR or FR. So that sorc couldn’t break all monster CRs. That was later changed, but Blizzard never changed the CR values. And that is why conviciton can now break many LIs, some FIs but almost no CIs.

Anyway. Single damage builds were viable 20 years ago. Blizzard introduced mass immunities to basically force you to either deal different damage types - or skip a boatload of content.
So you can go dual element until other options become available, let your merc kill CIs (which is slow) or skip all CI monster.

The aforementioned sunders are no option if playing offline or (S)SF online. If you trade or accept donations that you should be able to get your hands on a cold sunder and then you can kill CIs.

So if you can’t get your hands on a sunder, you could go dual element, farm TZs until you get your sunder and then go single element.

4

if we are talking about some kind of dnd style “make your own build”, which the diablo series was originally catered towards, the stat system gives you some options. since sorceress receives a lower amount of health from vitality, but benefits from dexterity and strength as much as other classes, there are some options there that also makes loot generally more fun. its not going to give you any aoe advantage, but its not like you need that as a mage anyway. you are always going to have some weaknesses, so its just about reducing the impact of that weakness

dexterity gives you enhanced damage to bows and crossbow. 100 dexterity is 100% enhanced ranged damage, and it automatically gives you a better chance to hit, so thats a good weapon choice for mages that want an alternative physical solution. you can tell the d2 devs intended for this, partly because mages generally start with higher dexterity, and partly because there is specifically one crossbow type that has improved attack speed only on mages and has generally low requirements compared to when you find it - repeating crossbow. but, have fun with all ranged. anything elite will be good enough on hell combined with decent dexterity, which is a must to wield it anyway

then there is strength that improves melee weapon damage. not as safe as ranged, but it has a lot more weapon choices to keep the damage updated, and you can always hide behind a melee merc to make use of it, or ramp up your defense now that you got the strength to do it. should be able to smack down regular zombies with cold resist in your way, and be able to pick out a few magical and rare ones too

i like to also use throwing weapons until they deplete and then drop them, if i have the stats to wield them. they benefit from both strength and dexterity. 100 strength and 100 dexterity means 200% enchanced damage with throwing weapons, both when swinging and throwing them. melee/throwing and ranged/throwing is good as a switch if both stats are focused on. makes melee hit better and ranged more defensive with better armor. also almost forgot, daggers have the same double stat boost. can have a visible impact on higher versions and some uniques. i remember instantly killing regular enemies with spineripper, granted it was on nightmare. still good if something works that well where it dropped using normal attack. your own stats and level is your true damage limit

i think battlemages should be a default go to, because there are only so many monsters that are immune to both physical and an elemental that you happen to use, and you still get to use your spells on the rest. it puts the secondary slot to use on someting that isnt just a buff booster. for warriors i think its also a nobrainer to swap to ranged if they have decent dexterity, why not make use of the damage boost against otherwise lethal enemies. easy way to deal with fire enchanted explosions too. nothing more than a normal throwing weapon that matches area level is needed to deal visible damage. im not gonna skip out on using up any exceptional or elite throwing weapons i can wield

finally, you can also toss a few oil potions at a group of zombies if the option is there. doesnt do much to single targets on hell, but the aoe could make a small difference. its the only cheap found aoe in the game that doesnt cost mana and has neither stat requirements nor stat boosts for damage, which is good enough a reason for me to drop my weapon to throw a few and put my weapon back on. zombies are too slow to react anyway, and as long as it deals visible damage it negates health regeneration, though your merc should obviously be there to help pick them apart

5

this is flatout wrong. Cite your source / proof.

OP, this wall of text is mainly BS. Just ignore it.
Trying to melee on hell without the right equipment will get you killed.
Trying to go physical (ranged or melee) will do a pitiful amount of damage since you have no skills besides enchant which will boost your damage.

Now that you’ve written a few paragraphs on how to kill extra slow zombies, you should theorycraft how to deal with CI archers.

1 Like
6

you have written like three replies to me on different topics that are hostile, what is going on?

sauce of repeating crossbow from diablo fandom

Speed: [-40]
warriors:
Amazon - Fast
Assassin - Fast
Barbarian - Fast
Paladin - Fast
mages:
Druid - Very Fast
Necromancer - Very Fast
Sorceress - Very Fast

7

Yes, but:

Blizzard uses only 5 very broad descriptive categories for attack speed: (very) fast, normal and (very) slow.
The actual FPS behind them range from 23 to 11 (which are all pressed into those 5 categories.
So the far more informative info is the speed, which is -40 in this case.
Now if you look at the IAS tables for the 7 classes, you will find the assassin using a slightly slower one than the other 6 - but those 6 use the same IAS tables.
So that means that the attack speed with an identical xbow and identical gear will be the same for a sorc, a barb and an amazon.
Nevertheless, they end up in different categories for xbows:
h ttp://classic.battle.net/diablo2exp/items/normal/crossbows.shtml
The actual speed is the same though.
And you can see the same categorie difference for (Siege/Gorgon) Xbows with the casters getting a faster category. The real attack speed is the same though.
h ttps://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/index.php/Necromancer_attack_speed#Necromancer_Crossbow
h ttps://www.theamazonbasin.com/wiki/index.php/Paladin_attack_speed#Paladin_Crossbow

So of your argument were true (which it isn’t) it would also be true for another xbow type: the crossbow with its exceptional and elite versions.
But that’s not the case. The actual attack speed with xbows is identical for all classes except assassin.

Why Blizzard categorized them differently? No idea.

8
  1. First post I read from you was correcting me when I hadn’t been wrong. Not an ideal start.
    1b) My reponse there was snarky, not hostile, I would say. But tastes differ.
  2. Next two contained info which was actually factually incorrect. Another thing I tend to be allergic to.
    2b) it’s possible that one was just a communication thing - I’d have to read it again.
  3. Kindly note that I didn’t reply to your other 1-3 post here on EU (dn’t remember exactly how many, don’t cite me on this one) and the other two on NA forums. Just the ones that rubbed me the wrong way. So it’s not a general “you” thing.
9

i do know that the characters actual attack speed is largely impacted by the animation they play, but if its the same anim across all crossbows for one character, then very fast should be faster than fast (urgh) right? so if say a paladin wields a *light crossbow which is fast, or a repeating crossbow, also fast, its nearly the same attack speed, or am i wrong? *scratch that, i just read its normal attack for light crossbow, but you get my point… if two crossbows are near the same attack speed, then - ?

if im not getting it wrong there, then mages having very fast attack speed on repeating crossbow makes that the fastest crossbow for them to use, by their animation. since i care for all classes to be able to use any non class weapon, i see that as a bonus, as the game saying “this crossbow is specifically tailored for the convenience of your class”

you could say that well its fast for the warriors too, so no real difference there going by anims. but for mages its a jump from normal to very fast, so between them, or even between their own speed, its a remarkable difference. they wanted that crossbow to be useful, especially to mages, compared to their normal crossbow standards

10

ok, i am open to not have been a target and that i was taking it too personal, but i still stand by what i wrote in my posts. there is no citations for me to make on those, its only based on game experience and years of doing different challenges (some challenges turned out to be more efficient than the norm, at least for singleplayer progression) that opened my eyes to a few things or had visible differences. a lot of my claims are easy to replicate and test if anyone is skeptic, like seeing who stabs the fastest with any thrust weapons found in act 1

just a quick edit, i got curious to actually test it like some scientific experiment that needs a real sauce, with the weapon speed. i will see what i come up with

i recorded them all stabbing with the balanced knife. amazon 25 in the air, the obvious slow ones 20 times, and those that might be uncertain i did 30 times (assassin). then i lined up all their audio and made the first stab sync up. this was my results

fastest to slowest

amazon
assassin
barbarian
paladin and sorceress (exact same speed)
druid and necromancer (exact same speed)

i have footage of them now, so i could line them all up to amazon and share it

ok i got it made
h ttps://drive.google.com/file/d/10U4nsyd6SZ_HQAT2OmMx91CEioImv9I6/view?usp=sharing

this also really puts into perspective just how big the difference is. when amazon reaches 25 stabs, druid and necro reaches 17, paladin and sorc reaches 18, barbarian barely reaches 20, and assassin reaches 21. everyones numbers are close but amazon adds 4 extra stabs over assassin

11

merc can be a wonderful meatshield. or he is a madman non-cold iron wolf that turns groups of enemies into dust. or a fire rogue leaving puddles of fire below them that they wont bother walking out of

now that i already did a bit of detective work, i wanted to put some into this one too. for starter on the enchant thing, i think as one of my friends said it, its mostly used for the attack rating, with the added damage being similar to what you might find on some magic weapons. deffo also shows below why thats so important. and reminds me of a time in act 2 nightmare, i was fumbling around with exceptional weapons, all seemed good but none of them hit reliably. then i found a “strange crystal sword”, one of those with ridics attack rating, was all it did. was way more lethal than the exceptionals. talk about hit chance problems

h ttps://drive.google.com/file/d/16dKnZEtyKDXf55NPPqTBo34_WSP5M5Zw/view?usp=sharing

here are some (many) thoughts to the ‘winged axe and winged knife’ recording

i added the two throwing weapons, level 99 item level (didnt think of it at creation), and whatever weapon came out of imbuing them was what i used. i did also put sorc to level 99 forgetting it would impact the hit chance positively

my stats were set to 100 strength and 200 dexterity. besides that, i had no equipment, no charms, no merc, nothing that would help on the damage or hit chance. just the weapons themselves. fighter merc would also have helped keeping them still so that half the time would not be spent backing up, but in a hurry i went with the bare approach

the winged knife was doing a little better despite having less lightning damage and only a little more physical damage. probably because of its attack rating bonus to undead

i didnt remember this before i started recording, but zombies on hell have 50% physical resistance as well as their cold-i. most of the damage i think just came from the added lightning damage. i think any version of throwing weapons (any weapon for that matter) with a large amount of added elemental on it would have worked well. before i tried the rare throwing weapons, i went with normal rarity ones and they worked fine towards fallen. but for zombies, the need to counter their physical resist and high defense to counteract their regeneration is a definite must i didnt consider

i think its also important to say that, in general, these are hands on alternatives that makes loot more interesting for casters. its not a perfect alternative to their innate abilites, but they are cost free in terms of mana and can be lying on the ground at any moment. if you dont know what to use your secondary weapon slot for, its an opportunity. its up to you if you want to devote time into using them. which is much less time together with a merc and a few helpful charms than it would be like in the video - was about a minute each to kill them both alone

i also still think its amazing you can use normal attack to kill stuff, even on hell. that you can face near top difficult situations with unconventional approaches and somehow you come out on top. and for me it really just goes to show, the game is not an adversary to you if you chose to make a build with no offensive/attack skills in it. if you want to be a paladin who runs entirely on different defensive auras, the game allows it. you can choose to kill swift and fast, but you can also choose to be the tankiest mother who has a solution to any danger up their sleeves. any skill combinations on the tree is possible, and the developers wanted to make sure none of your choices stopped you from succeeding, all in a true dnd fashion. yeah you can also make your merc the actual hero

its not the case for those arpgs, where skills level together instead of being picked from the same scarce points that forces a divide in what you pick

this battlemage approach will be very efficient to use through normal and nightmare, where it does not just barely chip away some health. unless you plan to rush or get rushed and want to have safe alternatives that dont pull on your mana reserves, it helps you progress through most of the game where enemy resistances can still also be an issue, and where you might run out of mana when you least need it. whipping out an alternative on the spot is just a lot more fun than fumbling up a teleport for provisions to get back in the game

by the end of the all, if you acquire the means to kill immune enemies, the points put into dexterity will still contribute to your defense and block rate, and it will still keep the options open for using unique weapons and runewords. the battlemage can not be internalized forever

12

it is

also correct

within one category like “fast” there can actually be different FPS values. So they will be close in speed, but not necessarily identical.
Take the Paladin wielding a -10 speed sword like the Elegant Blade. Without any on-weapon IAS it is already clasified as “very fast”. It would result in an attack speed of 13 frames. As you know, on-weapon IAS can go up to 40IAS, this would result in an attack speed of 10 frames. The category would still be “very fast”, since that’s already the fastest in the game. So depending on the on-weapon ias of the Elegant Blade, the Paladin will swing with 13, 12, 11 or 10 frames while the attack speed is called “very fast”.
If you add non-weapon ias, it can even go down to 8 frames, which is the fastest possible for a 1H sword in the hands of a paladin.

actually not. You forget the exceptional/elite version of the repeating crossbow which both sit at an inherent speed of -60. All three are clasified “very fast” for the sorc, but attacks with the repeating xbow will take 14 frames, while the demon xbow attacks at 12 frames.

In 24 years you’re literally the first I come across who calls it that way. :smiley: And I’ve been pretty active in the numbercrunching and sourcecode reading and -analysing community.

while for the non-mages it’s a jump from slow to fast. Also 2 categories, like for the mages.

that’s true for all 7 classes when going from xbow to repeating.

O.O
That is your interpretation. I honestly don’t know what “they” wanted.
Take the sorc. Compare Heavy Crossbow (20 average damage at 22 FpA) with Repeating (9 average damage at 14 FpA) - which one has the higher DPS if you just take the white item w/o modifiers?

13

no need for the footage, the IAS tables are all recorded on the ABwiki I linked before.
YOu’ll see that the druid and necro indeed use the same table and that it’s the slowest and that pala and sorc share one as well.

but not your iron wolf, unless you equip him specifically for that. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:
See, I wouldn’t suggest an iron wolf to a new player, since they’re the weakest of the mercs. It’s obviously fine to experience with all mercs when you’re an experienced player yourself. But an IW for a newbie might result in frustration.
I don’t always use the “ideal” merc on my builds because I prefer another one for some reason or another. But for newer players I’d suggest to try out the strongest (for that build) first.

mostly, yes.
Try this: Max enchant, synergy and FM. Grab a (x)bow which Fires Explosive Arrows or Bolts (Demon Machine is best, even a Kuko will work). Grab Razortail (and/or Wisdom RW). Use normal attack.
You’ll outperform Fireball/Meteor sorcs while using much cheaper equipment.

14

weeell, i think that really depends on the gear. act 2 and act 5 mercs get their asses handed to them often without physical reduction, and they always run into trouble if there is any. act 1 and act 3 merc might be squishier but they dont invite trouble and do well with hit and run, which new players might often find themselves doing. their only real weakness are fast monsters and other ranged… but against anything else, they will strike first, while melee mercs are almost required to be hit in order to hit back

ranged mercs have also become more useful against bosses with some of their new skills, and would be hard to say that they easily succumb to one when melee mercs easily get slapped down by a boss as well if not well equipped. to me ranged mercs are by default easier to use with whatever equipment you have, melee mercs are a little more demanding and require more attentive care with healing… and also just tend to bleed on resurrecting cash while still building up their gear

15

Don’t get me started on merc AI, esp. for the ranged ones.
Act1 merc and I were killing a group. One melee enemy left with just barely a sliver of life left. I estimate: One shot with the bow of the merc should be enough. She’s still fine healthwise. What does she do? Start kiting. And kiting. And kiting. Just one shot, but no. facepalm

Anyway, the two ranged mercs are now much closer to each other regarding defense. Yet to me, the act 3 still feels squishier than the act 1. Maybe there are differences in AI?

16

thats when i draw out my secondary weapon and kill it, no mana spent. a bit time saved if its ranged, too :stuck_out_tongue: magic arrow, fire arrow, or cold arrow… frost bolt or firebolt, would be ideal for those sits too. i will always use secondaries, or cheap skills if i leveled any, to finish off weak enemies. and leave mercs to the duty of distraction and chipping away health, and doing whatever else they do. rogue will definitely be most useless early on where she hesitates a lot, then become much more aggressive starting on nightmare if she leveled along. rogue with necro army is also amazing when positioned right. unlike some iron wolves, she always lands her hits if shots are not obstructed. gotta never underestimate fast straight moving missiles for still or incoming enemies. she just blasts away on higher levels the moment she is still

i think iron wolf is a bit squishy as you level him, thats true. also for act 5 merc, well, at least in original. havent got enough chance to see the differences with new skills on him. would also say same for act 2 merc without defiance. i feel all mercs are squishy against physical damage, and, on nightmare and hell, combinations of enchantments, until they got enough dmg reduction one way or another, whether its actual reduction or some kind of distraction. at least for ranged mercs, its very easy for some classes to create distractions for them

i think you are a much better expert than me when it comes to stats like these. i just go by gut feelings experienced in the game. on one hand im thinking iron wolf has the shield, on the other hand rogue has dexterity increasing defense. its also my experience rogue is more defensive and gets hit less, at least as you progress. i think any merc is decent if you focus on raising their defense as far as it can get, with what loot you find, ignoring other mods. it can get tempting to pick lower defense ones cause their mods are usually way more superior, but im not really sure mercs need those mods that much, if their exp is cared for

17

You should consider walk speed an important factor in AI behaviour!

The AI is, simplified, programmed like this:

  1. Check sight for foes
    1a. IF see foe, engage nearest
    1b. ELSE stand still or walk to random point
  2. Check sight for foes
    etc

IF you want to improve AI reaction time, increase walk speed to shorten the timespan the merc is running because while doing so he is NOT checking for foes. Hustle is an often overseen armor for Act 1,2 and 5 mercs.

The Act 1 cold merc with Mist and Hustle is a real powerhouse and is able to kite AND kill most enemies. My dual LW+Hustle+Andys A5 merc is the only one who can keep up with my Frenzy barb. I love this guy.

Same rules apply for minions, this is why Harmony is not a bad choice for a summon druid. It makes your tame wolves go crazy and increases their aggressiveness by a multiple.

Additionally all mercs have a distance check all the time running from about a half screen width to your hero. You can drag or “order” them to run in your direction when triggering. It feels like having your merc on a dog lead.

Of course, the most efficient way of “using” your merc is, once again, enigma. But its the most boring as well. :slight_smile:

18

for real, mercs are actually really great for controlling, if taking just a couple extra secs to position them right. sometimes no secs at all if they walk in your direction and you stay in the path to make them pause and rethink, that way you can control where they stand to attack if they are ranged. you can get used to doing this before engaging in each fight so you auto do it whenever you see the need or an opportunity. its not like you are gonna be able to control merc each time, sometimes they just get themselves in dumb situations, and some enemies are more aggressive than others and quick to charge in, but it matters a lot of times. i also like when both merc and player are ranged, you can switch between who stands front and who moves back. if you move back far enough before they kite, they will kite far too. they always move to your area. only problematic if you try to do close combat and they follow. then they can get stuck kiting around, trying to position around you, and around danger. but if you are also ranged you can make them back up to safer positions with you

this is kind of unrelated. i have been starting to play d2r with a friend again, who is still very new to the game, and i gushed a bit about how much d2 is about teamplay, cause he played a defensive aura paladin that he had a lot of fun with and i wanted to encourage him, and continue to enjoy the choices he make. that every class always benefit from each others skills in some way and so on, and how much it will matter later

and that even when you play singleplayer, the merc takes this role instead, filling out (chosen) weaknesses for you. was playing a bit on the side, and happened to capture this. iron wolf took one out, one of those annoying blood lords, largely on his own. fire wolf at that, in the original, with his broken inferno. but, the blood lord was always enough out of range merc just shot fire balls instead. then i could show him just how much teamplay mattered later. i think this is the biggest charm of d2. its not who can create the biggest bullet hell for the enemy and kill them fastest, or who can make it fastest through the game. you can make it into that, but the game is also so much more than that. i like d2 best when its not a competition, but a group effort, whether with merc or other players

i think people who expect or want merc to be as efficient as the player is… expecting competition. i dont want my merc to compete with me on who can kill better, i want them to just be there and muster what they can, so that i also can help them navigate their weaknesses

h ttps://drive.google.com/file/d/1KswZ7MfFqzppXtsRcaUroKL-rS-hWdai/view?usp=sharing

1 Like
19

Play with a friend on hell maybe!

20

It’s because Orcinus understands the game. And you are spouting bullshit and are convinced you have an inkling of an idea what you are talking about.

Patience runs thin

1 Like