For a start being a former no1 d2 player doesn’t make u the final word in over a million opinions, u need to drop that shi*. Also all the d2 players talking trash about paragon need to quit it too as u had charms which its basically the same as paragon. u guys would run crying to ur mums if we took ur charms away. its all about finding a balance between the 2. d2 was good…20 years ago, move on. d3 to many ppl is still good. But i dont want d2 or d3 again i want d4, somthing fresh and new with new ideas. and i bet theres alot of ppl who think the same. peace out…d2 fan boys, i hope u h8 d4 just because all u want is d2 again
I agree a 100%… It is 2020 outside and industry and tehcnologies bring us outstanding possibilities compare to twenty years ago so of course make use of it! Make game diverse, deep and outstanding! Make it able to cater for the next generation for 10-20 years ahead make it a BLAST that everyone will remember…Make it a next technological step and a masterpiece to refer to… i don’t know what else to say
Well said NitroBaz, totally agree.
I could not have said it better myself.
As a D2-player I would prefer D2-gamestyle over D3 yeah. D3 has its advantages; high drop loot and fast levelling but in long run it’s quite boring. But I would like to see stuff like stash space from D3 in D4. Using mules was quite shitty way of playing.
D2 is pretty hard as in completing the perfect build. It brings happiness when you find an strong unique item. It was a great game until it was flooded by bots. However, the bots made sure the prices of a jah/ber nowadays is pretty low compared to the old times. Of course I would like to have an enigma but I didn’t have it and did I really need it? Nope.
I can imagine it’s quite difficult to find a good balance between low item drops and reaching the endgame with a strong gear, while having a open trade market without being flooded by bots and impossible prices.
I think you should reach the endgame with collecting good items and not by playing thousand hours to rack up paragons so you eliminate the need of items.
The opposite has been going on for years in D3 and it seems to be working fine.
People find their own loot and share it within their party, while the whiners have the option to either play with this limited loot sharing mechanism, or sit one out.
This whole thread is a mess. Starting from the OP with his “Trust me, I was very good at a different game 20 years ago, so I can represent the current fanbase” approach and his bombardment of subjective opinions about gameplay and appearance, backed up by nothing other than his confidence that he knows what’s best for D4 and that he can speak on behalf of the fanbase majority.
This is not D1, or D2, or D3 or POE. We get a unique chance to try a brand new and exciting Diablo game, so get off your high horse and try not to spoil D4 with your sense of entitlement that you get from your D1 rank and “years of dedication”. Please.
This is 100% match to what i am trying to promote here. And my wish is to give Diablo IV a new level of diversity and ingame depth. Potential options are :
- Fill the game with all sort of different modes which will allow to enjoy it from all the broad range of perspectives people might have.
- Add ingame events on the outcome of which will depend how you are going to function tomorrow or even few days after i.e. Guild Wars 2 has that sort of thing implemented where your parties or fraction actions literally change the way things are going to happen in future and so on and so for. This of course could be given a lot more detail and adjusted to Diablo environment and make it outstanding. Another example is making some system of penalties that would depend on all kind of different factors and therefore giving your party a certain boost/bounty or giving a disadvantage/debuff and let them last for certain periods.
- Make a new and influential partymaking&ranking system that will allow top tier players to compete between each other etc.
- And generally speaking things like that! If devs sit down and think i believe they could introduce a lot of freshness, depth and new look together with old beloved dark essence of the game.
That’s really the problem, isn’t it? Far too many players are so short-sighted by their belief that their long-standing support of the Diablo franchise entitles them to have an undeniable say, that they have blinded themselves to the fact that Diablo IV is supposed to be a new game and not a rehash of previous releases.
I played Diablo almost from day 1 more than 20 years ago. Eventually, when Diablo II was released, I continued playing D1 for a few months until all my friends also had Diablo II, and we all took it from there, adapting to the new style and mechanics and leaving Diablo 1 behind. The same held true for Diablo 3.
And it will be so also for Diablo IV. I’ll continue playing Diablo III for as long as I can, but when all my friends have transitioned to Diablo IV, then I’ll likely stop playing D3 in favor of the newer franchise entry.
People need to learn to move on.
Good post @Deathbringer,
I can’t say I can agree on all your points, but in general I would like the new game to be better than the previous versions. If some nice aspects from the former are in there, no problem.
Personally I think D3 is far better than D2 in many ways.
The paragon levels for me is like going from level 90 to 99 in Diablo2.
The maps, well only some are stationary in Diablo3.
The items, yes it is easy in one way, on the other hand we do chase the perfect iteration of a weapon so I see no problem. This also brings me to the worst problems D2 had, as some more of the people here pointed out, the bots…
In my opinion the botting started in order to farm exp and the main items in the game that was the runes, the high end ones. The rarity of those also made a glitch become a huge problem that had a serious inpact on the game in total. The duping…
So regarding the rarity versus some people finding ways to cheat i prefer D3… Of course that doesn’t mean that we should have our items too easy…
So to sum it up: loved D2, love D3 more and hope D4 beats both…
I’ve been playing almost exclusively Blizzard games since the late 90’s, a lot of it being Diablo 2 and Diablo 3. I just want to add my voice to this and say I completely agree on every single point @DeathBringer made.
Edit: I want to highlight that making the game slow-paced will help in ensuring that the game doesn’t quickly die like D3 did.
I agree with almost everything @DeathBringer posted! Thanks for the nice and huge sumup!
1 CDs absolutely!!!
2 yeah some remodeling and signature appearance would be nice - but ok - its no main issue for me
3&4 as this comes together for me! In D2 you could try to speedrun through the game but even on lowest difficulty there were good chances to reach a point were you moved forward through the “necessary storyline” too fast, therefor were underleveled and undergeared and had to go back as forward was not possible anymore. I realy want that challange back! IMHO there should be no chance to beat a higher level of difficulty before finishing the one before! And this should not be accomplished by just blocking the option but by making it difficult enough so you are forced to improve your char to get through the game!
7 mostly agreed! this is an issue we’ve had in D2 and D3. At some point (endgame) its getting a pure grind! no matter if you do a full day of mephi speedruns in D2 or griftruns in D3 its the same over and over again with a very small RNG chance that at one day you might get the one item you want… and at least for the people who cant/dont want to spent weeks and month of hours of farming this is getting anoying! So IMHO there needs to be a different way to get it! It shouldn’t be easy! But it shouldn’t be just pure grindtime!
8 yes the rng factor of D2 was nice, but I guess having an open world can be fun aswell and if the dungeons are really becoming rng that would be a nice solution for me! on the one hand we would have the open world which we will learn to know and on the other hand we would have dungeons where we never rly know what to expect.
9 --> 4
10 If we don’t get paragon but a lvl-cap like in D2 GRifts could stay in my opinion. As at some point (D2 ~lvl80-85) you don’t just get better by playtime but you do need to improve your skills and gear, it would be a good option that there is always sth challanging!
I’m looking forward on news regarding the progress of D4! At least ATM I get a feeling compared to D3 Bliz is moving in the correct direction! Keep it going!
I largely agree with the author of the feedback. And also I was thinking about the pace of the game. In this form, everything suits me.
The only thing I would like a small (namely small) participation of the mounts in the battle. For example, the paladin’s (will it be in game, aha?) charge on a horse in a crowd of enemies with their scattering and/or stunning. And after applying this skill, the character would have already fought on foot. For the barbarian, it would be possible to make hooks that would catch several enemies and drag them to some distance, after which he would dismount.
P.S. Sorry for my English, it’s not perfect.
I have an idea of random events around the world of sanctuary where the ground splits apart and tough minions of hell come running out with unique elite mobs and once there all dead you can enter the dungeon to hell to do another event. Many things the devs could do with events like this.
Agree with everything except point #2.
And that is why you don’t tie core function to items. Skill trees provide the means to give core function to a player. If i as a monk want exploding palm I pick it from a skill tree. If i want to improve it I allocate more points into it. If I want the cold variant to do even more damage I can put skills into elemental/Cold skill. But there might be an item in the game Bill’s dagger of Awesome - Makes damage over time skills inflict all damage instantaneously.
Thats a good monk, customized by the player to be a exploding palm monk. Further specialized into cold. All directed by the player, involving decisions to allocate power as it was gained through a skill tree. And an item that would be desirable for many classes and would probably be incorporated into many builds.
I prefer that to the laundry list of must have items to create Uliana exploding palm monk. And until every item on the list is acquired it sucks. As soon as the list is complete a exponential increase in power.
Just want to say that I agree with this very wise D2 veteran!
I didnt see you mention anything about augmenting gear? Another tedious job of leveling legendary gems as high as you can to add a main stat to gear. Without doing this, you can not compete competitively.
The games current state is like this, unless you have 8 hrs a day to farm paragons, GR’s and augments you wont be able to compete anywhere near the top of the leaderboard.
What is your thoughts on this?
the devs are going down the same rabbit hole that was d3 dev.
items with 1000+ damage with multipliers. check!
all the attributes the items have are specific for a build, like they are telling you what build you should do. check!
magic and rare can’t compete with the number of affixes of legendaries in late game. check!
All your damage comes from items. check!
where are the resistances and damage types?
from the updates I feel like I already bought this game back in 2012
ppl seem to think attack is a dmg number, its not , if a skill does 200 dmg then u add 1000 attack that skill might do 250 dmg now. So its not a crazy dmg increase, also i noticed in the demo the legs had lower attack numbers to balance out the leg power.
I know I’m in the minority but I generally think there is too much nostalgia with D2 and look at the practicality of the changes in D3 as generally good. I played D2 from the start like everyone else and obtain every item possible including all the hacked items, runewords and so on. There are points that to me make D3 fail to itself… not to D2. Ultimately the nostalgia of D2 is way greater than it actually was. When it came down to it, only 2 things kept it going:
- Ladders (for those that cared – not me)
- PVP (which was my thing)
Other than that the game literally has no end game. We made something out of nothing because there was nothing else.
So back to D3 some of the pros:
- An obtainable level cap. This is actually a pro. Making it possible for all players to have access to all the same gear and skills is actually very good. It means there are more players at the top able to be creative, collaborate, and compete. It also means that the top players will be based on skill and not amount of hours played. Paragons muddy that of course – different problem.
- Being able to reconfigure your skills. Super important. How much I loathed accidentally selecting the wrong skill. Stupid. And then you have to reroll. But aside from that, build diversity and theory crafting is just that much better. And… who’s got the time for this rigidity.
- Combat smoothness was improved and D4… is so far slow and clunky. That said, again, I was unusual. I had a barb with an entire inventory of +5% run charms so I was faster than the servers at that time in PVP. Most people though I had hacks – not the point. PVP was really fast paced in D2. Don’t get the confused. Point is that slower is not necessarily better. I think D3 has a good pace when it is capped around 50-75%. Higher is just cartoonish slower is just sluggish.
- Items are easy to get. This again is a huge plus. The argument that the best uniques should be super rare actually hurts the game. The fact that it is achievable to make a decent build again adds to play style diversity. I’m enjoying that fact that I can play 10-15 different play styles. The ancient and primal items were actually a good touch to let hardcore players be noticeably better than casuals. IMHO the items with the best stats should be the hardest to get. Not necessarily that a specific unique item should be impossible to find. More on that below.
Where D3 failed:
- Sets should never have been the backbone of build design. In the earlier days of D2 and D3 the fun of every build being different because uniques and rares were the main focus made the game way more interesting and diverse. Both of them later went down a fairly silo’d path which was disappointing.
- Again in the earlier days of D2, rares could actually have better stats then uniques. I actually thought the premise of rares being stronger than uniques was great because it forced the best builds to ALWAYS be different. There was real excitement in getting a rare because no 2 rares were the same. If they combined the old rares + being able to imbue legendary powers on items… that would be really compelling.
- Last but not least… power modifiers in the 1000s… This one thing killed the entire game. It made the difference of one item be 10 torment levels. But more importantly it forced out every skill that was not tied to one of these bonuses. Early D3 was way more interesting that way because people always chose the skills they really liked for their play style and not the skills that were supported by items. There weren’t many builds that were grossly stronger than everyone else. Even now you can see how hard it is to balance the builds they do promote because a 50% change can jump 5 grifts when you apply all the crazy multipliers. It’s out of control. It appeared D4 was following this path of keeping the modifier down but I haven’t kept up with everything. The other problem with 1000%+ boosts is that it made it impossible to balance PVP. Without PVP it’s just grinding for numbers. Which… some people like… but PVP really was a huge part of D2 and it really brought all kinds of crafty people out with all kinds of tactics.
I don’t have much to say about some of the other complaints. They could go either way for me… like paragon levels, skill trees, attributes, cooldown… i mean, they were fine for me. People complain about paragons but in seasons they makes sense. In non-season less so. But that could have been mitigated by having non-paragon leaderboards as well.
And a final note… D2 was 20 years ago… I don’t have that kind time anymore. It is what is it. I tried PoE and realized I’m not going to drain my life into a 1 million skill tree. I think D3 offered a lot of great value for casual players while still giving hardcore players things to work on that are meaningful. Seasons, grifts, ancients, primals, paragons and so on. Sure there is always room for improvement. Saying it should be impossible to get to level 99 is just trading paragons for an old problem. The person with the most time will do the best rather than skill. There are hundreds of ways to make the game have progress. But like I said, you combine the old rare mechanics + better crafting and no more 1000% bonus and you have a real game again. It’s not that complicated. It is possible to make a game that is fun for casuals and hardcore players.