Diablo 4 feedback (From a former D2 No. 1 HC ladder player)

I agree with you except this point.

I do not want a 100% RNG game for people too broke to visit a casino to satiate their gambling addiction.
D3 tried this and you can see the result, most people only play during the season start to complete the journal as that is the only set of goals they can accomplish with effort. The progression is just too random.

There must be a way to get the items and with the affixes you want! The price can be steep and the materials can come from D2 über Tristram boss level opponents but the option should be there.

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Yea. By trade.
If you won’t find an item for you then sell it and when someone else finds item for you then buy it.
Pure random works with a functional trade system and that is a fact.
Geting all items in 1 day makes people leave. That also was proven by diablo 3.

You don’t want to put in effort? Well tought luck because there are no rewards for finishing last. Welcome to Life 1.0.1

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I think I should have better clarified what I meant by that. I was talking strictly about map RNG because the item RNG was too much from Diablo 3. I would have to find the same item 1,000 times until I got the stats I wanted and it just took the fun out of the game. I wouldn’t want to find say… A stone of Jordan ring with intellect when I needed strength (Speaking strictly in Diablo 3 terms). I feel like the Diablo 2 item system worked very well because you were getting the base item and the stats plus/minus a few +vit or +str levels that didn’t make a big impact.

Also as a side note, a small percentage of the player base only plays Hardcore mode but it’s big enough for Diablo (and video games in general) to implement a Hardcore mode. I don’t think alienating the hardcore community is good because every time you log onto the character, your risking a dead and a character you cannot resurrect so if I find, like I said, a SOJ with stats that don’t go with my character, I’m going to be frustrated in a negative way that I found such a rare drop and it was for nothing. Yes, I could trade it, but then I’d see myself trading most of the time, not self finding my gear, and the game would become stale quick.

1 Like

I can only agree on what Deathbringer wrote down, except for the fact, that I personally think, the most important things, needed in D4 are in the following order:

  1. Itemisation: An ARPG needs item depth (Str, Dex, Int, Will, Stam, …) and no green or red arrow indicating, which item is better. There should be very simple items, that can be better than powerful rare ones, e.g. for a boss you could suddenly need a ton of resistance, or for some areas you might want faster hit recovery or “cannot be frozen” (please bring a hit recovery!). Also a good ARPG should have +Str,+ Dex, (+Int), attack(cast-)rate, deadly strikes, crushing blows, +min. dmg, +max. dmg, +%dmg, +X absolute dmg, … on items, instead of “Attack” on shoes or rings. Sorry, but that doesn’t even make sense.

  2. Hit recovery, Block rate, attack-/castrate! Without them you can jump into mobs completely brain afk without being punished.

  3. No cooldowns on Skills for many reasons!

  4. More variety in the skillsystem and more choices to make. (especially for the endgame) Btw, I think this is a very important feature of an ARPG, but 1)-3) are just super fundamental and crucial. Without them it’s simply action, without RPG.

  5. Trading

  6. Gamespeed. It looks like a good speed in the demo, it shouldn’t be faster in the endgame.

  7. Monsters could be slightly more grim, light radius could be smaller, gold for legendary item color apparently is less comic-ish than a shiny orange, characters should look human.

To cut a long story short, the action part of D4 looks super cool, now the “only” thing missing, are the RPG elements. There I would love to see, that the team takes more ideas, which already work so good in other games, like PoE, D2, Titan Quest, … and reinterpret them. The dungeon keys, similar to PoE maps for example sound super cool to me!

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D2/PoE fan i see? Needing all these stats is cool but i dont like gear swaping like it is in D2 (one gear for ubers, one for speed farming etc). There should be other way to do it. Or maybe you just collect gear like some items have heavy all resistance, other has ‘cannot be frozen’ etc.
And yeas they should remove cooldown, let these
stronger skills just use more mana or what ever but you can then use legendary item to reduce mana cost on that skill.
I like the idea items now only have just attack, not strenght, dex, int. If they do weapons just for that class like in D3, then it’s fine i guess.

[Diablo iv - Constructive feedback on gameplay]

I agree with everything Deathbringer said.

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All of the points presented by DeathBringer are spot-on.

Just forget Diablo III. In fact, completely retcon it out of Diablo IV’s story. The Diablo fan community consensus is overwhelmingly unanimous on the point that Diablo III is simply a bad game with bad systems and bad design in almost all areas. Just ditch it. Clinging on to the mistake that was Diablo III is only going to harm future Diablo games. The best thing that can be done is to wipe it from the official series lineage.

Look at how many fans of Diablo have returned to the forums in response to Diablo IV’s media release. And notice that they all say the same thing about Diablo III: That it’s bad and Diablo IV is currently looking in its style (not specifically artwork) like Diablo III.

That Diablo series fan reappearance and commentary is the writing on the wall screaming at you to ditch Diablo III influence and use Diablo II as the basis for Diablo IV and then build from there. Don’t let pride and arrogance control your senses. There is nothing good to be salvaged or carried over to Diablo IV from Diablo III. Sincerely. Most of us bought and played Diablo III out of hope for a good experience and because it was what was available, and not because it was anything worthy of the Diablo series. D3’s design was a grave mistake and unless you recognize it as such you will only perpetuate its flaws.

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Give us complex character building with a complex skill trees.

Give us creatures that are designed and presented with integrity and realism, and nothing like huge monster in the DIV gameplay that does a cheesy and cringy goofy cartoony roar. That’s an 7 or 8 year-old’s idea of cool. But for a game that’s supposed to be serious in its presentation, like Diablo, it’s just friggin lame and painful to witness.

Give us a very challenging first-time playthrough, and not the garbage waste-of-time first playthrough that Diablo III offers. Even at max available first-run difficulty, Diablo III doesn’t begin to present even a micro challenge. And no challenge means no fun. Do you think I’m going to replay a game that was no fun to play through the first time? I’ll tell you plainly: I did not. Having the first run be a cakewalk was a blisteringly incompetent decision.

Give us low loot and very low special loot drop rates. In Diablo 3, every creature is a pinata filled with iridescent look. It makes loot drops meaningless, without valuable experience, without excitement, without pleasure. It’s infuriating how it it robs players of a meaningful and valuable experience by such a stupid and sophomoric design, and it says something bad about the people working on the games. I want it to mean something when a coloured loot drops. It means nothing in Diablo III, devaluing the play experience tremendously.

Keep the game slow-paced, with stark and dire environments. Some brighter environments can also work in a serious and dark game, if they’re done with sincerity. The thing is Blizzard doesn’t have a history of making games with sincerity - Blizzard is known in particular for making goofy, cartoony, insincere games. Well, that isn’t Diablo. Diablo, consisting of Diablo and Diablo II, is a series of realistic presentation, sincerity and integrity of visual, audio, and narrative designs. Diablo III didn’t have any of that, and instead was Blizzardified into a goody cartoony insincere pretentious pile of fairy crap, and that’s what made it a terrible game.

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Blizzard, please remember and take heed that Blizzard didn’t create the Diablo series and the series isn’t renowned and loved for anything Blizzard have, so far, contributed to it. You should be respecting of that and what it means.

Diablo is a renowned series because of the particular high quality style achieved by former Blizzard North developers. If Blizzard wants to make a quality Diablo game, you’re going to have to be faithful to what Diablo’s creators established and not try to Blizzardify the series, spiting what made it good. Leave your egos at the door, please.

With Diablo III, Blizzard sent out the strong message that Blizzard is a one-trick pony developer that can’t think or work outside of its tropes. Recognize the mistake that was feeling smug about Blizzard’s tropey style, thinking that smearing it on anything makes an impressive product, and make the decision to not repeat that mistake. Get rid of the over-exaggerated and hyperbolic character designs and animations. That’s cheese has no rightful place in a real Diablo game.

When making Diablo IV, think Integrity. That means to not think like Blizzard, but to tune into what Condor / Blizzard North were after. I think it might be key that Blizzard hires David Brevik, Erich Schaefer, and Max Schaefer as consultants for Diablo IV. Remember, check your egos at the door and don’t humour smug delusions about your abilities and personal vision like was done during Diablo III’s development. Diablo isn’t your personal game, and it has yet to be proven that Diablo can be a Blizzard game.

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Blizzard will never be able to do great Diablo game anymore!

Diablo series belong to Condor and no one else!

I dont think good items should be super-super rare. The best items should be rare and hard to get but not uber-super rare. There should be allways that feeling you may get that drop next coner what you where looking for. 80-90% of the season time i want to play whit best in slot gear, then it’s just matter of getting the same item whit
better stats. It’s not fun if you play 90% of season whitout the build you dont like just because you dont have the items what supports that build.

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I’m calling bullshite on your opinion on esthetics. Druid looks absolutely awesome and so does barb. They did find the right balance between cool and realistic.

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Nope, the greatest items in the game must be super uber hard to find.
Enigma was a dream for alot of player back in the days and to these days too. That’s why this game is still olayable 20+ years later!

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I also think, they have to be super rare, especially with a big player base. You can still have strong, cool items to enjoy your build. That would be the great advantage of an item system like in D2. You are not only looking for green and red arrows on the item, not only wether items are generically better or not, but have gear for specific situations, in which it is good. If you have this diversity, you can specialise your gear enough, not to be dependent on having super endgame stuff for you build to work.

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To be fairly honest. Diablo 2 end-game content is fast pace as crazy, especially in softcore.
teleporting with any character through a map to get to dia/baal get quick xp and doing it mostly for ilvl that pretty much done in mere seconds.
In fact… starting the game, login, creating a game and getting into action right off the bat is done in less then 40 seconds.
Most modern games take at least 2~5 minutes.
And getting to a boss in diablo 3, that also takes several minutes Especially Rift Guardians.
i’d say on average most people make it to a boss in diablo to in the 10-12 minutes.
as for 10-12 minutes on end-game diablo 2 characters. 2 to 3 games of full runs
Pits lvl1, Andy, mephi, Diablo all the ilvl 80+ drop zones. 3~4 minute run.
So… i halfy? agree with your point.
Diablo 1 is slow paced yes.
Diablo 2 Early game is very slow pace i can completely agree BUT!
Diablo 2 end-game is nowhere near slow pace.

But yes, Diablo 2 is a Very brutal hard game from the start.
Rakanishu who has lightning when you hit him (he protects the cairn stones)
since you have no resistances early game it really hurts and can easily kill you.
This is why a lot of speed runners or people with extensive knowledge of the game alway hunt for topaz, and shield with 3 sockets for early game so they can get those lightning resistances early on because act 2 on a new solo run character is absolute hell to go through with the beetles.

The core of what is missing here the itemisation.
Synergy within items and builds such as having runewords that give +1 to whirlwind or +1 to zeal or +1 to bear form.
Creativity, The fun part of Diablo is Creating your own character. that is part of the creativity, The same goes with loot.
Crafting, creating runewords, while having a very harsh drop rate in this game, runes are rare, most people never even see from ohm up to zod drop. they trade with people who get them from bots who run 24/7.
this is literally what makes a RPG an RPG.
People should look more towards those classic games, Look at Quest for glory.
You play your own style you could train lockpicking or get more mana or have brute force. these are all those kind of options that make your character you.
This is what Diablo 2 has and is missing in Diablo 3, This is solely why Diablo 3 failed. and Diablo4… is going into that direct its not RPG anymore… its a mmorpflbikfur its oversimplified nonesense without meaning.
Diablo2 the meaning was you’d get to the end. Alive if possible. it was hard brutal every corner had a challenge.
Pygmy dolls that run at crazy speed to you and then explode!
Souls that were invisible and they did crazy lightning damage and then you saw them but is too late to react to them.
its these fine happy little accidents that made diablo 2 a perfect gem for what it is.
oversimplifying things isn’t always good because you take the choices away from the players. you rip the creativity out of the game.
Diablo 4 will be fun for a short time… because its new…

But in comparison to Diablo2 which has been out for 19 years, and has 20.000 players on Europe alone every single day after each seasonal reset.
that is not counting in the modded communities. PoD has 500~1000 players daily (on peak hours when both Eu and US are awake).
There is a more private community from pvpgn that has nearly 500 players they just avoid the bots and dupes and all the bot bull**** from closed battle dot net.
Then you had those guys from Ladderhall that pvp on open b dot net,
you have the LLD(low level duels) community always lurking around. Median XL.
Man to be honest… there is probably 100.000+ active diablo players each year. counting out the bots, or people that log in on a blue monday and then quit after 2 weeks.
There is no other 19 year old game in existence that has this.
The people that don’t like diablo is new blood, its too old. incompatible has issues
playing in windowed mode on 800x600 sucks.
Huge lack of content, beyond ubers and pendamonium event.

i’d bet. if blizzard would make a new expansion to this day for diablo 2 for 60 dollars/euros.
it would be wildly successful. 20million copies sold first 2 weeks.
i’d stick my hand in fire for that.
anyone that has ever played diablo 2 would instantly return just to have a look.
And it would make its own commercial in the gaming industry.

“20 year old Diablo 2 game gets a NEW EXPANSION!”
picture that, they won’t even need to market it the gaming industry would just do it for them.
they could build whole new engine for it, increase the resolution make it Fog-of-war like beyond 1024x724. so its super dark unless you have a crazy amount of +x light radius.

Sorry, i’m rambling on.
its just right there. for the taking! for blizzard!
and they go like… "“nope don’t want it. too much effort. we want to make console gamers happy since they are our biggest audience now pc-gaming dead.”

Sorry for the long post.

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Diablo II/Initial release date
June 29, 2000
“Soon my friend soon.”

And please!!! Remove the Power Ranger transformations from char!
If i play with Barbarian i wanna a Barbarian. Not a Hulk with 3 eyes! In demo we can see Barbarian transform in ugly big guy with horns in his head!!! Why is this, if player dont have that kind of helmet???
If i create a Mage i wanna play with Magic. Not a Walking in the Air ghost!!!

If i wanna play with “Transformations” i play with Druid. Only in that char make sence.

Remove the “Transformations” from chars. We WANNA Diablo 4. Not teletubbies\powerRanger\Ninja transformations!!! Please!!!

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Trust me it will and will be played even when DIV be released and forgoten!

OK here are some things i thought of that could/ could not be taken into consideration by the devs.

1.Tradeing
Tradeing should be left free as in no restrictions (its not wow diablo never had bind on pickup) its a stupid thing to add and it creates chaos.
Why:??
It messes with the tradeing system. People like to trade top tier items and make good currency of those and buy other high endgame items to min max there characters. Its a never ending circle. Items anyhow need to be grinded they dont fall from the sky anymore or so they sed.There could be some special items what drop like from world bosses or a specific boss what diversifies the end game besides dungeons and whathever you have in mind. Idea is item prices will fix themselfs in time and a oveerflow in some form of currency or a otherwill always exist but this is where point 2 comes in.

2.Seasons
Adding new legendaryes/nerfing others is a good thing its ballance change and helps the game allot evan the trade mentioned in point 1.
Heres how i see it: Il give a lame example the stone of jordan ring witch gives + 1 to all skills lets say this whould be a sought off items and very expencive what if in season 2 you ballance it like this ‘’+ 1 to all skill lvls for X seaconds if Y condition is met’’ activly nerfing the ring and ballancing it at the same time. Might be good for some builds might be bad for others but it crerates diversity and in its stead a other item whould take its place as high market sell point. Ballancing evrey season as it comes around by the new items/gear themes that are introduced. You dont need to make it like this but its a example of what you can play around with to make meta builds new and interesting evrey season.Nerf a build create a other. dont need to add damage numbers to skills and tallents and multiplyers over multiplyers like Diablo 3 had that effectivly ruined the game you just have to tweek the items allready existing in the game and in some case add somthing new.

Point 3 Level of the game

Level of the game should be 100 and not that easy achiveble simple as that

Point 4.Legendary items

From what i heard legenday items will drop the same for diferent lvls so youl get the same legendary item over and over again as you lvl and farm. Thats a mistake
The legendary system should progres whit your lvl but insted of geting that item over and over again you should drop higher lvl more powerfull items as the game progresses. If you realy like a low lvl legendary you could implement a artisan or some system that raises the lvl of a item at a cost. Droping the same thing over and over again its repetitive and becomes boaring.It whould become a loot hunt for + 1 stat for evrey item equiped what frakly whould kill the game in the end.Its ok to get duplicate items as long as they are the same tier lvl not one from starting the game and one in end game but with diferent stats . Thats just lazy in my opinion.

Point 5 End game

So in this years blizzcon they presented 1 form of the end game trough dungeons (they sound more like poe map system than rifts but call them what you will) Idea is that as long as that key holds more than just 1 affix it becomes interesting. The more dangerous the better and the higher value

A other form of end game content is to farm some sort of uber versions of the bosses. other is world bosses theres potential there

Final point Crafting:

Crafting in diablo games never had a sweet spot lets be real. Diablo 2 had a easy level starting system called INBUE and that was it there was some crafting trough runewords and gems but i could hardly call that crafting.

Diablo 3 had the worse crafting i ever seen . none of the items you crafted where basicly ussable at end game.

Crafting is based more or less on creating your own items with the stats you like/need at a cost. So if rare items are not to become a thing in diablo 4 i realy see no need for crafting.Legendary/set/mythic items have fix stats and thats how it should be but rare items have potential if given enough concern.

I dont know if eny developer sees this or even if theyl take this in consideration but evrey bit helps and i hope feedback from the comunity whould be accnoleged this time around

1 Like

3, 4, 5, 6 and 8 i think are a must that blizzard has to take into account but espacially 4. They’ve gotto slow the game down. To me, that’s the most important one of all.

And I must say ( 5 ) I wouldn’t like to see those over-polished/exaggrated animations of characters, mob and skills.
And again, yes open trading and random maps please.

Thanx, OP.

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I wholeheartedly agree to your 2nd and 5th comments. Not only bulkiness of bodies but i can say that even the walking/running animations are very much like WOW characters. I think character animations should not be jumpy a la WOW heroic style but it should be more natural and maybe even crippled/stalky, lets say when they drop below 50% HP.

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