Do you sacrifice CHC/CHD for AD or CDR?

General Discussion
1

Hi guys,

Finding rings with CHC/CHD/Socket/AD( or CDR ) is way to hard for me. I only have such one non ancient ring and it’s like 40% CHD, 5.5% CHC and 12% AD.

I am paragon 1500.

Generally I am trying to achive 50% CHC and ~500% CHD and then put in AD or CDR as needed.

Would it be better to say have 40% CHC, 400 CHD% and a lot of AD or CDR?

Currently I have like 50% CHC, ~500 CHD% and ~100% AD and cooldown based on needs.

What do you think?

2

what char are you playing ? every char has different needs

3

WW Barb, MOTE Barb. For WW Barb I have 50% CHC, 500%CHD, 96% AD, 44% CDR.

For the MOTE babr I have 50%CHC, 480% CHD, 99% AD and 33% CDR.

4

1:10 CHC to CHD is too much CHD, or not enough CHC. The optimum ratio of CHC:CHD is 1:8.5. Enchant some CHD on your rings into CHC or more AD/CDR if possible. There’s an online calculator and table that displays which stat is more valuable depending on how much of each you have; https-d3resource-com/critcalc/

5

My Whirlwind Barbarian has…
25% AS
53% CHC
607% CHD
114% AD
21.24% CDR

The max CHC I could get is 54%, so I’m 1% away from that.
The max CHD I could get is 610%, so I’m 3% away from that.
Regardless of what that site tells me, adding AD, AS or even base damage would be massively more effective than CHC or CHD.

6

Sound very good :slight_smile: , what GR can you do ( and what’s your main stat )?

7

I don’t think you would want to sacrifice a crit chance or crit damage roll for AD (in builds that benefit from crit/crit). In builds that demand a certain level of CDR you might wanna live with cdr instead of crit until you find better items.

8

Well…yeah…

Why’d you leave out these bits of what i said? That site is just for comparing rolls of CHC and CHD to find out which is more valuable by bringing you closer to the optimum ratio for criticals. Other affixes don’t need to be factored in to determine that.

9

For the simple reason that I do not accept that there is a single optimum ratio and, even if I did assume there was an optimum ratio, the value of that ratio would be vastly different between builds.

For example, if I put in the stats for my Invoker, does it matter whether the site says CHC or CHD is more useful, when Thorns cannot crit?

What about a HotA Barb, where you can have a much lower native CHC due to the fact that the HotA attack gets CHC from how much fury you have, so CHD is massively more beneficial than CHC?

I’m pointing out that regardless of whether that site says my Whirlwind Barb would be better off with more CHC or CHD, either answer is wrong because with the stats my Barb has AD, AS or base damage is worth a huge amount more damage than a tiny increase of CHC / CHD.

My Whirlwind Barb’s current CHC:CHD ratio is 53:607 = 1:11.4
If I max’d the CHC, it’d be 54:607 = 1:11.2
If I max’d the CHD, it’d be 53:610 = 1:11.5

Go look at my Barb. It has almost max’d CHC and CHD on every single piece of gear that could have those stats. Max’ing those out would be less than a 1% increase and is way less than the other stats I mentioned.

10

Yes, you have to actually use some sense if you reference that site and consider which build you are using it for. It is not the be-all-end-all website for character building.

And about the stats of your WW build that you seem to be trying to boast about, that site in not wrong in describing that you would gain more benefit from CHC than CHD because the site is not comparing the critical affixes to all other affixes available or claiming that CHC or CHD is always the best affix to invest into. It is only comparing them to each other, just those two critical affixes; CHC and CHD, for the purpose of determining which one is more beneficial when you are choosing either one or the other to use as an affix.

If it were possible for your WW build to gain either an extra roll of CHC or CHD and you consulted that site properly, you would find out that a good roll of CHC would increase your build’s dps more than a good roll of CHD, because it would bring your current critical ration of 1:11.4 closer to 1:8.5, instead of further away from it.

You might not have a use for that site with the build you are playing, but i was not sharing it for you was i? I was sharing it for adragomir, the topic creator, because it can be used to improve his or her build as was requested in the OP.

Why did you derail this thread anyway by posting about your own build when it’s about someone else’s?

11

I’m not derailing it, I’m disagreeing with it and using one of my own heroes as an example of why. I do not agree that 1:1.85 is the optimal ratio for CHC:CHD. I’m saying the correct ratio is dependant on which build you’re playing and that site does not take that into account.

I can tell you without doubt that if I put my non-seasonal HotA Barb’s stats into that website it would tell me that adding CHC would be more beneficial and that advice would be wrong, because CHD would be.

It can only help to improve his build if it gives the correct advice.

You’re assuming that the answer to improving a build is always going to be CHC, CHD or getting the ratio of them to 1:1.85 and I’m saying that sometimes the correct way to improve your build is to choose neither CHC or CHD, and the optimum ratio is highly dependant upon which build you’re playing.

As an example, for a Whirlwind Barb (which is one of the builds the OP is playing and asking about), getting your AD over 100% is incredibly important. That site would advise you to take CHC or CHD even if an AD increase would be vastly superior.

In short, that site can give completely wrong advice.

12

Just because you are unable to use that site to improve your own build, and are incapable of understanding how it can be used to improve someone else’s, does not mean it is giving wrong advice.

You really don’t seem to understand what the very simple information on that site is for. Let me explain:

It is not advising people to always take CHC or CHD in place of other affixes, it is for comparing how much benefit you are gaining from them when they are at certain values. If someone is enchanting for example, a ring, and both CHC and CHD are available enchantments, then the site can be used to calculate which one will give you more dps. Conversely, if someone wants to sacrifice either CHC or CHD in favour of enchanting a different affix, they can calculate which one can be spared for a lower decrease in dps.

The OP is considering using more AD or CDR instead of a high amount of criticals. By consulting that site it can be determined that his current CHC is contributing more to his dps than his current CHD. This means that if 1 ring has CHC as an enchanted property and the other has CHD enchanted, then it would be more beneficial to re-enchant the CHD into more AD or CDR instead of the CHC, because enchanting the CHC instead will cause him to lose more dps.

No-one can gain new, different affixes on their gear by enchanting without first losing a certain affix. If someone, like the OP is considering, decides to lower their build’s criticals in exchange for more AD or CDR, we can use that site to calculate which CHC or CHD affixes on their gear can be spared for those new affixes with minimal losses to paper dps.

The 1:8.5 ratio describes the ratio of CHC:CHD one needs before 6% CHC is (almost) exactly equal to 50% CHD in terms of their contribution to a build’s dps (it will be equal to 51% CHD). If someone has a different ratio to 1:8.5, then one of them is more beneficial to increase while the other can be decreased with a smaller loss.

If someone’s build has CHC or CHD sources other than from gear or paragon points, then those will need to be factored in when comparing your paper values of them. That can be easily done by simply adding those values into the “current stats” section of that site, which factors in those extra sources, updating the results according to when they are in effect.