Why no retroactive changes on primals?

To date, I have only ever managed to find a single Primal through reforging. Have a look at my off-season Wizard:
https://eu.diablo3.com/en-us/profile/Prometheus-2318/hero/49268115

The Typhon’s Thorax was created using a reforge. All other primals, across all my heroes and in my stash, and including all those I’ve ended up salvaging, where acquired mostly through Bounties, Nephalem Rift and Greater Rift drops.

My experience has taught me that Kadala & Reforging are the least reliable ways of finding Primal items!

In previous posts you’ve told us that you have vast quantities of unused crafting materials precisely because you don’t make use of Cube recipes. So, of course your experience is that you don’t get primals via reforging but that’s because it’s a method you don’t use!

The Cube’s “Reforge legendary” is, by far, the single most reliable method of getting a specific item as a primal, regardless of whether that’s a method you use or not. I know you don’t like it when I mention maths, but it really comes down to that.

Primals are 1 in 400 legendaries.

When a mob drops a legendary, it can be any legendary in the game. Due to smart loot, 85% of those will be for the class you’re playing, 15% will be for other classes.

So, let’s say what you want is a specific primal mighty weapon for a Barb. When legendaries drop from random mobs, 85% of the items are picked from a loot pool of things a Barb could use. Let’s say, conservatively, that there are 150 possible items a Barb could use. That means it’s a 1 in 150 chance of being the weapon and, if it is, there’s a 1 in 400 chance of it being primal. That means it’s (1/150) * (1/400) = 1/60000 chance of being that primal weapon.

Okay, how about Kadala? Well, at least you could target it as “one handed weapons” but that might still have a pool of 20 weapons. So it’s (1/20) * (1/400) = 1/8000 chance of being that primal weapon.

Okay, what about “upgrade rare to legendary”? This cuts down the loot pool further, as it means you could just get mighty weapons rather than any one-handers, so let’s say it’s 1 in 10. That’s (1/10) * (1/400) = 1/4000 chance of being that primal weapon.

That brings us to “reforge legendary”. The result is always going to be the same item as you put in, just with randomised quality / affix values. That means it’s 1 in 400 of being primal. That’s 1/400 chance of being that primal weapon.

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It is precisely the reason that I do not have much success in finding “top-of-the-line” items via Kadala or Reforging why I have so much crafting materials going unused.

Of course you’re never going to win the lottery if you never play the lottery.
Your stack of unused crafting materials are unpurchased lottery tickets.

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Actually, have a look at my off-season Wizard, Hermione:
https://eu.diablo3.com/en-us/profile/Prometheus-2318/hero/49268115

Her Primal armor, Typhon’s Thorax, was acquired through reforging. And then only because I was bored and had nothing.

To date, that is the only useful Primal I have ever found using Upgrading Rares, Reforging or spending Bloodshards at Kadala. Every other primal, whether equipped or in the stash, I found through in-game drops playing Bounties, Nephalem Rifts and Greater Rifts.

All other primal drops that do not have an immediate use go under the salvaging hammer anyway.

It may not be very efficient by your rules, but far far more effective and fun actually going out into the battlefield to kill demons to find what I want.

It’s a bit of a straw man argument. To me, and probably a majority of players, the main purpose of the Cube is to get the items we want and need in a hurry: first in an ordinary version and later in an ancient version. If we happen to get a primal version it’s just luck - but a good ancient version (and for many items just an ordinary version is good enough because some items can be extremely difficult to get good stats on) is all we need.
But if you’re player who is dedicated to get some Primal ancient gear, reforging (and to some degree upgrading and crafting (the special set pieces) is the only efficient way… but no guarantee that you’ll get what you want.

You are right. Sometimes a well rolled Ancient can be better than a Primal.

Have another look at Hermione:
https://eu.diablo3.com/en-us/profile/Prometheus-2318/hero/49268115

Those items that are not Primal are as near perfect as they can possible be. Even if some where to be replaced with Primals, the long-term benefits would be negligible.

This is actually another reason why I don’t reforge items as often as Meteorblade claims I should. By the time I have enough materials for any meaningful run at upgrading and reforging items, I’ve likely already found items that don’t really need replacing.

At which time I focus primarily on boosting them with Gem Augments.

How is my stance a strawman argument?

I edited my post and and added some stuff while you were answering to clarify why I say “straw man”. It’s only if you’re absolutely intent on, or obsessed by, getting a Primal item that you should spend a lot of time reforging and farming mats for reforging .

Nearly perfect? I would refer you to your helm (no VIT), RoRG (no CHD), Compass Rose (no CHC or CHD) and bracers (no VIT).

I’m not telling you how often you should, or should not, reforge. I am saying that reforging is the best method to use to get a targeted legendary if you were going to use any method. The items I mentioned above are clear candidates for upgrades, even if you only get better affix’d ancients rather than primals.

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And therein lies my point. Unlike some, I’m NOT obsessed with finding Primals, so logically I see no need to spend time trying.

I’m not obsessed by finding primals, but I am very focused on getting items with the right affixes for the build. Something you’re clearly not concerned with, as ably demonstrated by the fact you think your wizard’s gear is almost perfect. Heck, do we need to go back to you rolling CHC and CHD onto an Invoker’s gear?

You could’ve fooled me! Those items you mentioned that “require upgrades” are classified as such according to your rules. Not mines. They work fine for me just as they are.

You said…

…and I pointed out why they’re not even close to being perfect. You can, of course, ignore that they’re not ideal and continue to use them, but this is why you have lots of unused materials. You could get a good improvement by getting the upgrades I suggested but you’d rather just have the materials sitting there unused.

That which I consider to be the “right affixes” are clearly different to what you consider to be right.

What you failed to understand about me after all these years is that I do not play by the rules of the sheep whose only desire is to copy what everyone else is doing.

Again, you rolled CHC and CHD onto an Invoker’s gear, even after you’d been told that Thorns cannot crit. So, what you consider the right affixes aren’t.

Yeah, why stick to round wheels when you think square ones are best, right?

But that particular build worked for me.

That’s not the point.

If you still haven’t understood me after all this time, then you never will. There is no sense of accomplishment when copying what others have previously done.

Oh, make no mistake, I do look at what people like Rhykker or FilthyCasual (amongst others) have to say about which builds will be the best for a particular season. But most of the time I eventually end up with something different.

Why? Because unlike you, I’m not obsessed with being the same as everyone else!

In my opinion that’s still no excuse to ignore others pointing out blatant mistakes like completely useless affixes on gear.

I understand your point but doing things by yourself, finding out things by yourself does not exclude listening to the advice given by others.

There’s nothing wrong in trying your own builds and such. However when someone points out a major issue, like CHC and CHD in an Invoker build which benefits from those big fat zero percent, wouldn’t it be sensible to try the given advice rather than stubbornly ignore them?

Even creating your very own build, it would be ideal to actually think which skills, gear pieces, affixes on the gear, etc. would really synergize each other. Theorize things in your head. Listen to others and theorize some more in your own head.

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Hermione with current gear…
https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/148242765

  • Damage 7,995,130
  • Toughness 321,654,681
  • Recovery 22,501,015

Hermione with some affix changes I suggested…
https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/115895727

  • Damage 9,207,999
  • Toughness 444,597,302
  • Recovery 15,014,344

Hermione with current gear, but with them all set to primal…
https://maxroll.gg/d3planner/371401143

  • Damage 8,209,982
  • Toughness 347,882,751
  • Recovery 24,051,599

Increases by going all primal…
Damage increase = 8,209,982 / 7,995,130 = 1.0268
Toughness increase = 347,882,751 / 321,654,681 = 1.0815

Increases by going with the “right” affixes…
Damage increase = 9,207,999 / 7,995,130 = 1.1517
Toughness increase = 444,597,302 / 321,654,681 = 1.3822

The point is that your claim that your wizard’s gear is “almost perfect” is clearly laughable when, with a few affix changes, it could gain almost enough damage to go up by an entire GR level and those affix changes are worth vastly more than even turning all of her gear into primals.

Generally, everyone else wants to improve their heroes as much as possible.
I agree, you’re not like everyone else in this regard.

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So I should snap my fingers and automagically get those affixes you suggest?

D3PLanner is good for doing just that. Planning for the build you’d like to use. It has no function beyond that and cannot help in actually finding any of those desired items.

Actually, it’s an awful lot of fun sometime deliberately “nerfing” a build and then seeing just how far you can go with it. In this instance (which was actually a very long time ago), not using CHC or CHD did indeed work.

Trouble is, and please pay attention Meteoblade, everyone is so blinded with following the herd and copying everyone else’s builds, that they sometimes fail to see the other possible variations that sets provide.

I was, after all, able to make Catherine work for me according to my needs in Season 13.
https://eu.diablo3.com/en-us/profile/Prometheus-2318/hero/106911065