It’s bad when end game bosses are one shotted. This should not happen no matter how powerful a build is.
All that is needed is for bosses to have a max damage cap per hit taken, a type of DR. It could be a quarter, eighth, sixteenth etc of the bosses total life, something along those lines maybe.
Damage capping bosses should not be the solution to this, balancing the game should. When some builds deal several thousand percent more damage than others, something is wrong, this is what needs to be adressed. Its ok to have a rotating Meta to keep the game fresh and not everything has to be equal, but the differences between builds should be much smaller, Like 25-50% not 1000-2000%
Right. I agree builds should vary somewhat in effectiviness, not greatly.
They should be when the reward is nothing more than farmable mats. You honestly want to spend 10-15 mins in a mind-numbingly boring spam-loop for a small quantity of materials needed to farm another boss that does the same only to get it all together to farm another boss with a tiny drop %?
Come on, think about what you’re saying. The journey to obtain those mats is not fun and you think they should make it longer?
I don’t even play anymore and still think it’s wrong.
What they should do it change the entire game. The loot system. The dungeon system. The party system. Everything needs overhauled. Sadly, what they are doing (each patch) is simply putting another coat of paint over a turd.
the only reason we saw one shot kills on PTR was because Druid is bugged but that was addressed and hopefully fixed. I don;t think you saw any other class one shot a tormented boss. Sure Barb is close to what druid was doing but no one shooting.
This is what is said:
That’s what you said. Those tell different tales. One is about end bosses, how those should not be one-shottable. The other is about mid bosses, leading up to end.
No, that’s what you said. You created the strawman and now you believe it.
Anyway, I like farming helltides; the path of steel. Good times. Not so much killing giant maggots but honestly it shouldn’t get oneshot anyway.
Loot chances should improve and the boss itself should toughen up. Yea, it should take some time and effort to get what you like but the big bore isn’t the boss itself, it’s the hundreds of runs you have to do to score anything. That takes the breath out of even the most stalwart of farmers. Because you know you’ll sit down for 300 minutes, 5 hours, with your 50/50 stack and your three stacking brethren; pure Duriel, counting 3 minutes each run. And that’s only 100 runs. I put 200 runs before I got anything this season, with the improved drop. Half a day, running maggots. You know how taxing that is. And I think that’s the actual problem. Those 12 hours of Duriel could remain for the same loot by doubling both the time needed to kill Duriel and the drop percentages, for example. Tweaks should be made because overfarming the boss like that breaks anyone, it’s not fun.
Having said that though, the boss isn’t terrible and could be made much funnier. But as it stands the only remedy for Duriel is speed, currently.
Think about that. You want the game to go faster because you’re sick of it, so why play?
Doesn’t make sense. Better to close the game and play something that’s fun instead of speeding up something you dislike. It’s like watching the smurfs, trying to make it entertaining through fast-forward.
But you did close the game because it didn’t make sense to continue. Question is if it helps in any way, faster or slower, for your case. Perhaps you just don’t feel it regardless. Because if you’re sick of farming, I don’t think this game will ever be much fun. But alas, I know little to nothing of your sickness. shrug
I think things are only looking up. Sure there’s many things I disagree with (you wouldn’t believe how much) but looking at what they’re doing it’s consistent with what I see as their vision. Many cool changes happening with season 4 and it will be fun to play it and see what’s going on. Too bad you feel otherwise. Perhaps there’ll be something for you up ahead.
And no, I don’t know what to do; I don’t make games. But I see the devs doing the lord’s work with this new season, at least from afar it looks promising.
Aren’t all bosses that drop end-game farmable mats considered end-game bosses? Not sure what your strawman comment was about but whatever.
Duriel is the only current end game boss, except Lilith of course but she’s not a farmable boss so excluded. You don’t farm materials from end bosses, you use them on those. Varshan is not an end game boss, or Grigoire.
A strawman is when you create a weaker argument than presented and then attack that argument instead.
Edit: No wait, there’s that other guy too, Malphas.
And you’re right, you didn’t say that Duriel should be one-shottable. I misread and apologize.
Edit 2: Or actually, I don’t really know anymore. Don’t feel like reading it again either. Maybe I was wrong, maybe I was right. You decide.
just let bosses scale up in regard to the participants, should not be to complicated to implement that.
it is done in other games.
I think the real point here (between us) is what determines ‘end-game’ bosses. Though, does that actually matter when my point can be carried over either way? Besides, who doesn’t like becoming all powerful, eventually?
Yes, true; the definition of end boss.
And true, it doesn’t matter as long as we know what we’re talking about.
I’d like one-shotting as much as the next guy but I figure one-shotting wbs and final bosses like Duriel and Lilith, Malphas, the big bosses, ruins the experience.
For Lilith - who should be redesigned so that a normal person stand a chance in a regular fight - it cheapens the victory when it’s one-shot into a few dodges into a final one-shot. And for Duriel it’s boring since it becomes a slot machine rather than a boss fight.
There’s a game that needs to be played and one-shotting is only better than a perma-stun of the boss because it’s fast. When all we’re looking for is speed there’s something wrong with the gameplay itself.
I advocate that Duriel, for instance, would drop better and take more time. Also that it would be a more engaging fight, somewhat harder.
Thing is, with Duriel, is that we’re only looking to burn the materials as quickly as possible because there’s no actual expectation that it will drop anything as it takes hundreds of runs for it to do so. Hundreds of runs translate into many hours even if it takes only a few minutes to do each run and that’s tedious and super unfun. So if the boss takes a real amount of time, like ten minutes, you and me both would be scratching our eyes out and tearing our hair as half a day of super bore becomes a week of omega bore. That design has to change.
But I think you are missing the context which is the process.
The bosses don’t start off as one-shot. They become one shot as you (we) become more powerful. Isn’t that a natural part of the progression? To me it’s natural. It’s ok for the first kill to take 5-10 mins but when you’ve to kill it 1000s of times do you really want it to remain the same? I know I wouldn’t, so for me given the context it’s fine. Like I said they don’t start as one shottable, we just eventually grow stronger and given the repetition goes up and value goes down it makes complete sense to leave that process alone.
Sure, but the problem is that only a few builds can do this. The imbalance in builds is way too big, and thats the real issue. A HOTA barb can oneshot duriel after 20-30 hours of gameplay, meanwhile a WW barb cant oneshot Duriel even if they play 1000 hours. If one build is allowed to deal hundreds of millions of damage in a single hit, they all should deal hundreds of millions of damage in one hit. Personally i would prefer nobody did that kind of damage. The powercreep of D4 must be contained, rather than go the way D3 did.
In my opinion we shouldn’t be killing bosses thousands of times. Better we kill it a hundred times, for ten times the loot at a tenth of the speed.
Completely agree with you and I did somewhere miss the main point. Whereas, I want bosses to continue to be one-shotted (at perhaps the very end-game of the players journey) I do agree that build damage should not exceed a certain level over another. It’s the same in WOW with talent builds, it just promotes meta spam and reduces choice.
Personally, I would like (eventually) all builds to have equal one shot capability. I love the idea of eventually reaching a point were you wave your hand and a screen-full of demons just disappear, it’s a motivational driver. Isn’t that the same for everyone?
Not when you can do that after 1-2 days of playtime, which is currently the case and - judging by what happened on the PTR - is not going to differ greatly in s4.
Well, if they kept adding more loot variety and build options with the occasional increase in level cap, wouldn’t that keep you playing?
Well no, because there has to be a reason for loot to matter.
Diablo 3 had the same problem that - as far as I’m concerned - was never solved - you get your character adequately geared very quickly and can do almost all content the game has to offer and from that point onward the only thing that’s left is chasing either infinite small main stats increases, gem levels, or very minor range roll increases on the same affix and aspect types you’ve been using ever.
Because there is only one correct aspect very often for multiple builds and there most certainly are only a handful of correct offensive affix rolls on gear that very rarely change even in-between builds.
Don’t even get me started on the paragon boards, cause I’d instead call them mazes - since all you’re doing is avoiding horrendous choices - there is only one path to take with very, very tiny variations allowed.
As far as new builds/skills/classes go - that’s expansion material in this game it seems, so is realistically going to happen only once every 1.5-2 years. I personally require a faster content cadence in order for the game to stay engaging, you might be fine with waiting for months and years however.
Yes, I get what you’re saying. I remember in the early days of WOW you made use of nearly every new piece of equipment you found, even poor and common loot!
(colour loot table in WOW: grey = poor, white = common, uncommon = green, blue = rare, purple = epic and orange = legendary … similar to Diablo).
Every new piece of gear was an upgrade and you felt it. I even remember getting my first blue (rare) item, and watching my damage per hit go up from 120 to 160 which was insane! From that point it took me 3-4 hits to kill a mob whereas before it was 5-6. It was so impactful and empowering. I don’t seem to have any real relationship with loot in Diablo 4 outside of colour and what that is supposed to mean.