Uber Lilith mechanics?

General Discussion PC
1

Hello everyone,

I have a few questions if any of the devs can clarify this that would be awesome

Is Uber Lilith supposed to be the way it is right now and by the way it is i mean:

Waves one shots you
Boils one shots you
Stepping out of arena one shots you
Fireballs one shots you
The blood wave one shots you
Boils on second phase one shots you
The only thing that doesnt one shots you its her auto attacks and adds

is this intended, is this the way difficulty is measured?

Now for the fight itself:

Lilith doesent have a pattern which you can learn and master, every single pull has a random pattern

She spawns blood boils outside of the arena where you as a melee cant go and hit

She spawns adds in different locations at all times

Waves in first phase overlap in spawning most of the time

Waves spawning outside the arena 80% of the time

The fight takes place in a red circle in a red room with a red boss spawning red waves indicated by red trails on the red ground and outside the red arena which is surrounded by a red mist/fog like thing all of this in a red lighting environment.

Wave speed isnt always the same

After first set of adds until the spawn of second set of adds in first phase she spends most of the time airborne and dmg immune, also out of the arena most of that time doing random stuff and spawning waves non stop where you can barely throw some dmg for like 1 second before she takes off again

After second set of adds she will touch ground to hit you once then take flight again untill she is phased

Second phase, fireballs change direction as you move and in some wierd instances the fireball did a full U turn to follow me

Breaking the platform without showing the animation for the platform breaking

Nearly impossible to understand and learn this fight as there is nothing to learn.

99% of the kills were made by broken one shot stagger abuse builds!

Now are all these intentional? is this how this fight is supposed to behave? Is this the way to kill an Uber boss?

Genuine questions all of them, i just want to know if they are intentional and if i should try and abuse stagger and kill it or i should wait until she is fixed and actually feel like i stand a chance and kill her?

Thanks

3 Likes
2

The boss is intended to be almost unbeatable. Almost all the one shot mechanics can be brute forced with paragon/items on some classes, some of them can be immuned by class spells. But the intention is obviously to dodge every single one of them.

The issue I have is the fight is kinda broken.

  1. If you push her into her 3rd phase as she spawns her 2nd phase adds (so skip a phase, almost), she will infinitely spawn waves and never land. She just bugs out and that’s it. Good practice for waves. If you skip it before she spawns P2 adds she will spawn P3 adds and the fight will work.

  2. If you do too much damage to her in the 3rd phase (set of 3 adds), when you kill the adds she will land, drop 2 boils, and take off and instantly without engaging. If you’re not at the edge you’re dead, the wave spawn is faster than usual and it will spawn from outside the circle, behind you, going towards you.

  3. Wave time to spawn is varying, so sometimes you have a lot of time to react and sometimes within an instant of taking off there is a wave in front of you. You die if you don’t pre-empt these fast spawn waves, and you die if you aren’t at the edge when she goes up, because your position decides the wave spawn position.

  4. Wave patterns vary. While the basic pattern is the same (2 up, 2 down) the orientation/spread varies, extremely difficult to see when they spawn outside the map to the south, due to poor visibility of that area. Sometimes up/down directly cross over. If you pre-empt these normally(aka 2x evade to the other side), you’re likely dead because the “safe spot” has a wave coming.

Tho sometimes the safe spot is still “safe” because the wave will despawn before it clears the circle, it will hit you and do no damage.

  1. Sometimes she refuses to fight you, just dashing around, often outside the room until she goes back up in the air. Have had it where she did 3-4 air phases/waves before she would stand and fight.

  2. Bloodboils from adds can spawn outside the circle if you kill them at the edge.

  3. In 4th phase, she can sometimes do her special ability (3 pronged spike) WHILE staggered on the floor, no idea what causes this bug.

  4. Camera zooms in between phases, reducing visibility and causing motion sickness, it zooms back out when she enters an add phase. This seems like an intended feature, as if the fight couldn’t get much worse.

  5. Adds can cause the character to “intelligently” path around them when you click to a spot rather than you getting stuck, but it can “intelligently” path you right in the direction of a wave and die.

  6. Wave physical effect is slightly forward of the visual, meaning if you “think” you dodged a wave in good time you will likely still die if you’re crossing the front of it. The opposite is true at the back of the wave, you can run along with the wave inside the visual effect from the back and take no damage.

I will say tho, you can manipulate the waves to spawn safely SO LONG as you are at the very edge of the circle when she clocks your location, the wave spawns are based on char positioning, the hard part is it isn’t consistent “WHEN” she will check your location.

And I realise I just re-wrote a lot of what you wrote, but I skimmed your post and then wrote my own before reading yours properly to see if we came up with the same observations. And we mostly did.

3 Likes
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And for reference. I haven’t killed Uber Lilith, I got her to the last phase 8-9 times but I’ve managed to learn a lot and optimise damage. However, as I optimised damaged the behaviour of the fight changed drastically and she started to get more buggy.

That meant I was relearning the fight over and over, constantly trying to figure out how to deal with all the janky broken mechanics. And I really have a dislike for the design of the fight which really boils down to "run fast to the edge of the room, as close to the edge as you can get without getting one-shot.

The whole fight is really to just run to the edge of the room before she does your location check. If you can do that right you will get safe waves, if you don’t do that you will simply die. It just goes to show that it’s easy to make a hard boss, it’s not easy to make a good one.

2 Likes
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Surprise surprise though blizzard in spectacular fashion did the same as they always do like with the shaco, heres what you could have, just enough people to show it off and then they change it and take it away, the fight was easier at the start of the game and they did the blizzard switcheroo once enough people got the mount to show it off and ramped it up to ridiculous levels, so now if you are not running one of the uber cheese builds then every other build in the game can now go screw as you now cannot even hardly tickle her.

If i can do bosses in seconds on lvl 50 dungeons how come now i cannot even get quarter of her health bar off without her squishing me with not even her 1 hit wonders, not everyone who plays diablo 4 wants to play one of the 5 ultra cheese builds.

1 Like
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It’s technically possible to beat her without cheesing, it has been done, it’s just the fight is unbelievably unforgiving, and has multiple RNG elements that can screw you. But the reason Barbarian is hardest is because it doesn’t have a good cheese build. There is “kinda” a way to cheese it using Hota damage, but it requires an extremely specific setup including perfect gear and would probably take a hell of a lot of tries to pull it off.

I recorded some attempts earlier. I put one death in slow motion and timed when the slam wave visual was drawn to screen to when the boss slammed the ground, it was 1 second between the visual and the mechanic hitting. Due to the spawn position to beat that I would have had to see the visual, react and then cover the entire arena in 1 second flat.

If you get that spawn wave/location (which even happens if you’re right at the edge) the only way to beat it is to have max movement speed + a bonus movement speed + 2 evades, and a reaction time somewhere around 200ms or less. Pretty much, if you get this sequence/positioning combo, you’re dead unless you can face tank it.

1 Like
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This fight is a joke, troll, meme.
Also its complete trash mechanics, visually… you cant really tell what she’s about to do.
I never seen such complete garbage display of mechanics, wich seems to be comepletly random & utterly unfair. having to deal with multiple targets while evading other mechanics and trying to DPS a boss have nevere been so poorly executed.

It’s pretty damn obvious that the devs themselves have not beaten or even tested their own stuff before releasing it to the public.

And they prove this by doing nerfs constantly on all classes.
This game is a mess sadly.

3 Likes
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One shot mechanics >git gud. Anyway its lazy method to make boss strong. Do we want to play dark souls here ?

1 Like
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The fact that it has been messed with and is now completely random where the spikes go as well is an absolute joke, i tried several times yesterday and where the smudges appear first on the floor indicating where the spikes would appear, gone no red smudges for me, so i went by the lines on the floor and dodged to the side, wrong, the spikes now just appear wherever they like regardless of where the lines appear, so the fight now just being completely random and broken and not working properly means you have just a random chance to stay alive, not a factor of skill but pure luck.

Blizzard wanted to combat the gold sellers so what they did is just make the perfect opportunity for people to charge for gold using a broken build to do it that can take down lilith in 10 seconds and skip the broken mechanics and resell it on the market, how did they not see that one coming ?, they just opened up the market to them LOL.

1 Like
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I’ve been trying to figure out if the character orientation (so the direction you’re facing, not just your position) also has an effect on how the waves spawn. Because you can be centre at the south side right on the edge, kissing death, and then she will spawn a wave from the west (to your left in other words).

If you get that wave from the left, it’s really risky to evade through the normal way as you would just evade outside the map unless you’re perfect. So you need to evade north west to the right side of the arena and then direct north and click the furthest north corner once, leave go of the mouse so the wave just skims past you.

I find if you hold down mouse click to move a lot (I do) it’s going to kill you because you will run outside the map… But this is just for phase 1/2 waves, in phase 3 when she does the slam patterns it seems she can still totally screw you even if you’re standing at the edge.

10

Like i said man i watched several how to videos in preperation and the spikes for me at least are now just completely random, apart from the massive wave she kicks up where you can just move through her, the lines appear as an indication where they are going to appear and now they just appear wherever so you cannot even prepare to dodge out of the way as the spikes wont go where the lines are, its now just a guessing game and then ya dead.

1 Like
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Im just curious if this is intended guys,if this is what they had in mind when designed the boss or if something has gone wrong because to me it seems alot of things went wrong here and its kinda strange this fight got to be released in this shape.

i might be wrong and this might actually be what they had in mind and place difficulty behind a “random things happen and you got to react to them” wall, which is not bad if things work as intended, but it feels like they never tested this fight or they couldnt pass the first 2 waves and couldnt tell of the fight is as it should be and they said …yeah it works.

I wish to challenge the Devs to a stream where they take a normal build and they kill Lilith live, and i mean more then one dev, like 5 devs killing Lilith in this state without abusing stagger or one shot builds phase skipping or immunity.

Cheers

12

Go watch BEN_ on youtube.
Did beat her on 3 classes on HARDCORE without cheezing her.
Hard to learn, unforgiving. doable

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That really wasnt my question, just because someone did it in this state doesent mean we should fish for the perfect spawns and everything to work as good as it can so we can get a kill, ive seen Ben do it and ive heard what he said thats why im asking if this is how its supposed to be,

“Diablo 4 has likely sold at least 4-5 million copies , using available data, as of June 9, 2023.” According to this there are that many people assuming no one bought 2 copies that play the game, 1 person out of 4-5 million, you do the math.

Cheers

14

Main problem is that the game goes from difficulty 5 to 99 when you try lilith, no inbetween (and Nightmare dungeon scaling is a joke, eather you don’t or you get one shot) Most of the scaling is wrong or badly adjusted, too many errors to point to.
so where to begin?

15

Hard to learn, unforgiving, doable, buggy and poorly designed with random non deterministic events happening from pull to pull. Ben even says in his videos “sometimes this will happen and you will lose a pull to it, but it won’t happen often”

His “won’t happen often” bugs happened to me quite a lot. Killing it on hardcore isn’t killing it in one try, there is just more involved with each attempt in order to not die. Interestingly, on hardcore the fight is easier because you get 1 free death (and on Bens barb kill video he would have died if it was softcore), of course the consequences are higher on HC and it takes a lot longer to get attempts in, so it is impressive.

16

The 1 free death you talk about is a 2 second window where you have to choice to use a scroll of escape or kill the boss before you die :smiley:

17

Incorrect, the 1 free death is an invulnerability potion, which was consumed on Bens barb kill.

18

Elixir of Death Evasion: For the next 30 minutes, prevent death once and become Immune for 2 seconds. Once this takes place, you cannot benefit from it again for 5 minutes. This Elixir is special, and may be used alongside any other Elixir.

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Exactly, he died if it was on softcore.

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but there is still the 2 second windows i talked about, so it’s a super ballzy move , i wouldn’t try ever