3x 12 cost minions on board by turn 5? Conjurer's Calling needs nerf

General Discussion
21

You don’t really get to complain on a public forum, then complain when you get responses.

22

Nah i just wanted to make it clear.

Also tough youre right that the combo will be there for 2 years, we all dont know what will come next to either prevent or boost other stuff to ve more reliable

One thing is usually garanteed that blizzard collects data.

Right now i wouldnt mind if they change the grace titans manacost to 11. Would change the outcome of the spell so they cant get multiple taunts which would prevent the wall and for that would make the whole thing more difficult to preveil cs aggro.

I got crushed by token druid on turn 5-6 and i crushed people vy turn 5-6 with murloc zoo so if the mage cant reley to a 50/50 chance to get a 7/8 taunt it would be a whole different storry…

@ loco well that depends on the response :wink:

23

Oh yeah it’s strong but have some sympathy for Mage players, they never have a tier one deck and could use the card as it works well with Mages new legendary Khadgar :slight_smile:

24

Thanks to the p2win Twinspell mechanics enjoy, the new endgame minions on turn 5 “new gameplay”

25

well … 2 epics and 2 rares are hardly pay to win …

26

Well actually I do, because unlike complaint is both analyzed and have some value to it and have done the math for it, before posting it. Unlike Rayven’s noob comment about:

It’s an answer that is so slow skill IQ that it doesn’t even make sense, considering the context of the problem. And even SureK4y can see it and give an even better formulized answer than I did! The core problem, as I mention from the very start, is that it is not about that 1 turn combo… it’s about that you can make a deck that is basiclly pure big minions, while being able to have small minions in your deck, powerful removals and able to cast 1 turn combos that can fill your entire board with 6-12 cost minions in one turn, and turn out those combos several times, in several different ways throughout the entire match!

Even if you prevent it early game, they can still do it both mid and lategame and there just aren’t any class in the game with THAT much removal, to counter full boards of high cost minions that many turns. As SureK4y pointed out so very well, there is only 1 real way to beat them and that’s

Because unlike the old handlock with molten giant, this deck is pretty much stronger than that powerful deck, HOWEVER at least back then, handlocks all to the risk of being low health, while this magedeck doesn’t while being almost as consistent as the handlock

27

OH MY GOD!!! Yes it’s a simple answer, but sometimes the simple answer is the correct one. You’re complaining about them playing a mountain giant on turn 4 and using Conjurer’s Calling on turn 5, so the obvious answer is DEAL WITH THE MOUNTAIN GIANT WHEN IT’S PLAYED BEFORE CONJURER’S CALLING IS USED…it’s not f*cking rocket science. And don’t use that stupid ‘relying on card draw’ response again, because, you know what??? You can put just as many, if not more, minion removal cards usable by turn 4 in your deck as your opponent can put Mountain Giants, so the chances of you getting a polymorph by turn 4 are EXACTLY THE SAME as your opponent getting a Mountain Giant by turn 4. If you don’t…then that sucks, but…you know what…the mage is just as likely to not get a mountain giant.

And stop moving the goal posts by saying ‘yeah but they can still do it later’. Your original point was that its ridiculous that they can do it on turn 5…but the earliest they can do it in one turn is turn 9, by which point most classes have access to many cards that can deal with multiple big threats.

But, you know what? I don’t really care any more. If the deck you were complaining about was tier 1 and smashing everything, you may be able to make a valid argument, but it’s currently tier 3 with a 47% winrate on HSReplay….so it’s not like it’s an OP deck is it? In fact, the top mage deck on there is only tier 2 with 52% and that doesn’t use the Mountain Giant combo. Fact is, your crying about a combo being OP that just isn’t consistent enough to make the deck as dangerous as you are claiming

28

Funny you say that cause a simple "tier 1 deck hearthstone April 2019" shows on the very first 10 links that the conjour’s calling deck are in the very top 1 tier you say they aren’t… cute

Secondly it’s sad that through the ENTIRE post since the very beginning, you haven’t even understood the entire underlying problem of the entire post… you claim you are high rank, but highly doubt it, considering you can’t analyze a simple forum post… You talk about the turn 4 mountain giant as though that is where the problem lies the entire time :upside_down_face: That basically just shows you can’t even figure out what this post about in the first place, even though it was written in the very first post… dear lord how dense. If the problem was the mountain giant by turn 4… we have had a problem since day one of Hearthstone :man_facepalming::woman_facepalming: Which is why I give up on you, you simply can’t comprehend it, even if I bend it in neon, cut it out in cardboard and lit the thing on fire, you still wouldn’t get it…

lol they can do it at every single turn past turn 5… and they can spawn multiple 6+ cost minions 10-15 times in one game… No retardo… there aren’t that many board removal cards in any single one class to deal with that! You are so clueless half is enough

they got firetree witchdoctor, messenger raven to keep early board presence while maintaining their hand count or rabble bouncer if the enemy got to big of a board presence…

they got twilight drake, astromancer, mountain giant to always get use of their hand count.

they got khadgar and vargoth to double the minions every time they cast anything

they got malacrass to give them even more giants, or conjourer’s calling, or any of the other OP card they got in the starting hand

So even if you play aggresive, they can put up bigger minions than you…

so you skip them?:

guess what, you can’t cause there is a 50% chance you end up against 2 7/8 taunt mininons by turn 5…

you go face then!:

Well unless you already got the killing blow by turn 5 or lots of spells/cards to go around taunt, then gg you won’t killed them now, because they got an infinite wall of big minions…

you dominate early game: well they got minions on the board to clear while building up the big minions, or throw rabble bouncer…

so no, they don’t need to wait for turn 9 to do it in 1 turn… from the point of turn 4 they can throw a minion on the board that has 8+ health or higher and attack between 4 - 8. If you don’t deal with them, they increase exponentially with each turn… if you deal with them, you can’t attack them, and even if you deal with them every turn, eventually you are getting overrun and there are too few board clears in the entire game that can deal with those in the first place… those who can have a maximum of 2 charges per class

and the fact that you are like "well just deal with every single minion that comes on the board every single turn"… well okay, so at which point can I ACTUALLY deal damage then? You can’t…

As said I have a deck containing

2xExecute

2xShield Slam

2xShield Block

2xDyn-o-matic

2xBrawl

2xWarpath

only thing I miss are 2x supercolider and 2xbig game hunter to have ALL board clear / big minion clears possible, and I can’t even keep up with that even if half my deck is basically build around controlling and clearing the board…

So, yeah great! I get rid of the mountain giant on turn 4 okay, sweet. What do I do with the twilight drake or new mountain giant on turn 5? If I ignore it next turn they will just triple or quadruple the minion count of equal or higher cost, so what do I do? and the same for turn 6, and 7 but by that time from here on out this is only contains more and more big minions… and they got one for every single turn past turn 4

29

if you encounter them a lot by your taste try to remove a shield slam or a execute for supercollider , i think that card is better in that match up.
maybe even run 2 of them.

the only difficult thing i find against them is when they khadgar into 4 argent commanders.

30

Oh look, you’ve made an idiot point again…guess what…no matter WHAT turn between 4-8 they play it, it still takes them 2 turns to pull it of, so them trying it on turn 6 is EXACTLY the same situation as if they tried it on turn 4 , so the solution is…surprise surprise…exactly the same…DEAL WITH THE MG THE TURN BEFORE THEY CAN PLAY CONJURER’S CALLING!!!

Now excuse me, but I’m off to talk to the wall, because that seems to absorb information better than you

31

But I’m also going to refer back to this point…

32

and I’m gonna refer back to this point again

33

Like I say, I prefer to use sites that use lots of data collection to collate fact like this one:

https://hsreplay.net/meta/

Funnily enough typing ‘tier one decks’ into google isn’t what most people would call ‘accurate’

34

id say mage with 55% winrate highest is by far not a problem… I would say all classes with 60%+ is the problem…

Warrior 64%+
Hunter 62%+
Rogue 61%+
Warlock 65%+
Mage <55%
Priest <57%
Paladin <57%
Druid <58%

Stats are taken from best decks in HSREPLAY with few million games to sample with… so fairly accurate.

And on top of that, Mage/Priest/Paladin heavily struggles and has less than 40% winrate in most cases or even 20% against the top 4 classes…
Now thats what I genuinely call an issue…

35

I do agree but, while perfect balance between classes is something that should always be strived for, it’s the impossible dream. There will always be meta’s where 2-3 classes are the strongest and 1-2 are weak in comparison to the rest. While the devs to put a lot of time into balancing classes as much as they can, even they can’t foresee every possible combination of cards for every single class, and it can happen that a player can spot something that’s never occurred to them in play testing that tweaks a design they were aiming for in a way that makes it even stronger or even create a whole new deck they hadn’t thought of that turns out to be very strong. What’s important is that this is recognised and each class gets it’s opportunity to shine at some point throughout the year.

Another issue that compounds this problem is that the vast majority of players on hearthstone are net-deckers….mostly because they either don’t have the ability to deck build good decks themselves, or simply can’t be bothered. As such, when a new meta arrives, a large portion of the player base gravitate to the stronger early decks that others have created which means that, early on, a lot of classes will look a lot weaker than they might potentially be. Whether someone actually unlocks this potential, though, is another matter entirely. But look at the last meta, Wall priest, which ended up being one of the stronger decks of the meta, didn’t arrive on a large scale basis until about halfway through the meta…the beast hunter deck that ended up being the one everyone complained about didn’t turn up until the last 6-7 weeks of the meta.

Also, a lot of people would also argue that some of the classes that are weaker this time round deserve to be so because of how strong they’ve been in the recent past. Odd paladin, for example, had been tier 1, or near enough, for 3 expansions in a row…which is pretty much unprecedented. So it could be argued that it’s only fair that it’s one of the weaker classes for a bit, whereas druid, which has struggled for a while now, is justified in having a tier 1/top tier 2 deck for a change.

It’s swings and roundabouts really

36

Okay so please show me a deck type that works that can counter a deck with pure 8 health minion every turn after turn 4, come on, I dare you just 1 deck that can both deal dmg and prevent 8 health minions or multiple 6+ cost minions every turn. Because if it is not stupidity that rules you, this should be an easy task, with your lame as answer that is always “just kill all the minions every turn”.

Because if there exist any deck that could handle that, everyone would play it, because the opponent would never be able to use their minions

37

Firstly…it’s not EVERY turn is it? They have 2 mountain giants, you show me a viable mage deck that, from turn 4, CAN pump out 8/8 minions EVERY turn? Honestly, your argument is getting more and more stupid every time you reply.

Secondly, if you’d even bothered to look at the site I linked in ANY kind of detail, you’d have figured out that you can look at each deck on the tier list…go into it, and see what it’s worst match up is. You could even have bothered to search around on the net to find counter decks…what do you think I’m here to do? Spoon feed you up to legend?

The fact of the matter STILL is that you’re complaining about a deck that isn’t even tier 2…let alone tier 1.

38

I said 8 HEALTH every time not 8/8 every time
and it’s rather easy, let me paint the picture for you

Minions:
2xFiretree Witcher
2xMessenger raven
2xTwilight drake
2x Molten Giant
2xRabble Bouncer
2x Astromancer
2xCrowd Roaster
1x Khadgar
1x Archmage Vargoth
1x Kalecgos
1xArchmage Arugal

Spells:
2xPower of Creation
2xArcane Intellect or Book of Specters
2xConjurer’s Calling

and then you got 6 slots left you can use for optional counters, like ooze/harrison, flamestrike, blizzard, sea giant, malacrass

39

It’s still not EVERY turn though is it? There are a LOT of high cost minions in that deck so It’s extremely susceptible to bad card draw. It might luck out and get good card draw early in a few games, but over a large collection of games it will get annihilated by turn 6-7 by aggro decks. I guarantee you that deck is not consistent enough to be come a top tier deck.

40

Have you smoked something or do you see some cards I don’t? because either you draw high health or cost cards that can be used early or else you get drawcards to mulligan for the other cards
there is only one bad draw hand and that is if you draw both (khadgar, archmage, vargoth, kalecgos, archmage arugal and both power of creations and conjurer’s calling all in the opnening hand and start draw… and the chances for one to be THAT UNLUCKY is so tiny it doesn’t really matter if that happens once) and if you pick the remaning other cards to counter boardcontrol, then you have a respons for every situation or able to throw down high health cards that can be split into other things