I understand that team 5 is full of “not very attractive men”, but if they would start to use their bigger head they could quickly realise that Jaina is way too powerful.
Please note that Team 5 admitted in the past that they wanted to make Jaine the most powerful Death Knight (the priest nerf happened for a reason).
The issue is that the moment a mage drops FLJ the game is over and the mage insta wins, there is just no coming back.
This game style punishes those players who actually plays for fun and do not play brainless aggro decks.
How to rework that could leave FLJ powerful, but it would still solve the issue and create a new nonretard play style?
Leave the card as it is,but add the following text: Your elementals on board(or in hand whichever you prefer, but only one printed) gains lifesteal.
Modify the hero power to summon a 3/6 golem without lifesteal.
-This way you have your extended susstainability (life steal and armour).
-You have a brutally strong late game stall token (2 mana summon a 4 drop “I see great value here.”-The Mad Man)
-and your oponent can still work around the lifesteal with aoe, etc and the minions can be countered by rushing the face for example.
What are your thoughts?
edit
Also a mage’s kit should never contain heavy healing. Priest, Paladin, Shaman and Druid should be the only classes with this ability.
-Lifesteal might be ok in Warlock, but the mage should never get any class clards with healing/life steal.
2 Likes
Jaina is far from the “I win” card you make it out to be. Due to her high cost for example, you pretty much sacrifice an entire turn when playing here, which can be devastating in the late game.
As someone with a Jaina deck, I can also safely say that it can be very easy for your opponent to deny you 1 health targets. Sure, she has a big healing factor with the lifesteal, but mostly when you actually put elementals in your deck. Just adding Jaina to any random mage deck is usually not the best idea. Nerfing her hero power would make her almost unplayable in a deck that doesn’t focus on elementals.
I also don’t know if FLJ is currently problematic enough in the wild meta to warrant a nerf…
the priest deathknight never got nerfed, Raza the chained got nerfed since it was to powerfull combined with the priest DK.
This totally depends on the match up, a early jaina on a empty or weak board against a face hunter or any other deck that can not deal with the late game has a difficult time from here on.
Adapt your decision making as soon FLJ enters the board since facing this it will require you to make different plays, consider cards that already have been played and how to avoid leaving a 1 cost health minion up.
Your opponent has probally fun with FLJ
Control mages would not be played anymore since it would instantly be one of the worst hero cards, FLJ is the reason right now control mages exists because it can come back from the brink of death.
FLJ is fine in wild and not considered to be overpowered in there.
If it gets changed then control mages would not be playable anymore in ranked.
I played quite a bit of Reno Mage with Frost Lich Jaina in it a year ago, but I admit I don’t know what is the current status of the card, so I checked HSReplay stats.
Frost Lich Jaina decks have, in Ranked Wild, a 49% win rate. When Frost Lich Jaina is played, the win rate improves to 57.7%, which is very far from your claim of being “game over insta win”. For the sake of stats, when comparing to all 11 heroes (which may be a bad argument, but useful to know), Frost Lich Jaina is:
- 5th most played
- 9th best win rate decks (or 3rd worst depends on how you count it)
- 5th best win rate when played
So, solid… but that’s pretty much it: solid, if you draw it and play it.
I don’t know how others are building their decks but the way I build mine is to have Frost Lich Jaina as my win condition, supported by Coldarra Drake (because memes), Ragnaros and Baron Geddon. I admit that my win rate after playing Jaina is probably better than 57.7% but I still need to draw it.
Overall I think it’s a great card, a superb win condition and one of those “build around” cards that I tend to like. Powerful, yes, if drawn and if we survive that far, other than that I have no issues. If it was such a problematic card, the meta would be filled with it, and it’s only in 3.2% of the decks.
EDIT: regarding this style punishing “playing for fun and not playing brainless aggro decks”, I wonder how you support this claim considering Frost Lich Jaina is the archetypical win condition of a control deck. The sentence sounds completely unsupported.
Ah i see reno mage is the only viable tier deck that runs FLJ and it’s tier 4.
NOTHING is game over insta-win besides cataclysm when you have Mechthun and no cards in the deck, IF you don’t have any deathrattles to interfere with Mechthung. I know the story.
EDIT: Spare yourself the trouble
Your post is literally pointless. If you do not add anything to the conversation and instead you cut out my original post in a way to miss represent my words just go away.
“the priest deathknight never got nerfed, Raza the chained got nerfed since it was to powerfull combined with the priest DK.”
This is what Blizzard does most of the time to avoid dust refund. Raza was more important to the priest than DK and many fun decks died out with Raza which hurt the priest more than it would to lose DK Anduin.
FLJ simple ruins the game for the other player as Jaina can freeze your board at least 4 times and IceBlock 2 times which makes her immune over 65% of the avarage HS game.
If it is not fun to play against a deck it should not exist. This is not a single palyer game. IRL card games are fun where you make friends and when you lose agaisnt a good player who made some good plays you actually enjoy your defeat. In HS this is not the case as the devs make it sure that the game is not enjoyable.
“This totally depends on the match up, a early jaina on a empty or weak board against a face hunter or any other deck that can not deal with the late game has a difficult time from here on.”
This part is also pointless as you excluded my other important point in this manner.
Now get out of here comment hunter.
I guess you missed my post. If decks with Jaina lose 51% of the games, how can she be immune 65% of the average games?
The avarage winrate of any deck is way below 57+%. If your winrate improves by 8.7% just by addign 1 card out of 30 I would say that is a very huge boost.
The issue is not the card itself. It is the complete mage package.
A couple of years ago Team 5 stated that the mage class should have the most powerful spells as they are the “magical” class. My opinion on the other hand is that this is the stupidest thing that I have ever heared.
-A priest should be better at killing the undead,blessing etc than a mage.
-The warlock should have more powerful than a mage as they sacrefice their or someone elses life force for that power that is beyond of a mortals limit.
-A druid should have better transformation spell than mages.
Unfortunatelly Team 5 biass is highly visible as almost every board clear in the game has huge drawbacks. Just look at the warlock’s and priest’s mass murderer/ suicide speels. Meanwhile the mage gets away with deal huge dmg to the enemy and do not hurt yoruself at all instead get huge advantages left and right.
The fact that the mage can freeze the enemies board 4-6 times or even more with card generation. That the mage can go immortal for at least 2 turns without punishment. If you add the mages powerful spells that can target anything and FLJ’s I will freeze the living sh1t out of your minions and outheal almost all of your damage if you do not counter build my entire deck. This is the issue.
With the full package the added lifesteal is just too much and it limits the future cardpool of the mage that is bad for mage and other players alike. Meta or non meta it does not matter, Team 5’s attitude of we ignore the issue until our next powercreep causes a lot of trouble in wild.
I play since beta and I simple refuse to play standard as it is anti consumer and I want the original HS experience which is Wild and not Standard. Now if you want to play differently then do it I do not care, but wild is getting worse and worse over time and the issues cannot be ignored anymore.
That is why I at least try to help the community. Unfortunately, HS forums are pure cancer and aids. Just look at the other commenters. Go to any other topic and the moment someone try to bring up any idea no life morons will just say some negative crap to get 1 more comment to their name.
To you Nostalgmus, get a life, a job and a girlfriend and try to help the community instead of being a fool.
HAHAHAHAHAHA , i made sense and you got mad.
Going to grab a beer , stupidity is with you.
p.s you are quite delusional in your post , but hey see ya ![:crazy_face:](https://d30yn6ctwpaot1.cloudfront.net/en/hearthstone/images/emoji/twitter/crazy_face.png?v=6" ":crazy_face:")
I understand what you are referring to, but I look at the current state of Wild and absolutely fail to see where are all these problems you mentioned. I would understand your description if Mage was wrecking Wild, but it isn’t. In fact, it is one of the worst classes. This is not a matter of opinion, it’s fully supported by data.
The description you did of Mage’s class power level in Wild can be done for Hunter, Druid, Priest and Paladin. The difference is that it only really matters for Hunter and Druid. Paladin and Mage are halfway power wise and Priest is basically dead in Wild at the moment, even if Big Priest is kind of a thing.
And here comes the ancient old counter-question; who decides what’s fun to play against? You? Pfft hah!
With the adventures and the single player content we’ve received with every expansion since Kobolds & Catacombs? Yes. It can be played as a single-player game. Obviously it was not designed as one and is PvP at its core. But you can play nothing but single player content if you wanted. Don’t even need your own card collection for it.
Pffftt BHAHAHAHAH! “Enjoying your defeat”? Now that’s funny. Maybe it’s because I am admittedly a sore loser myself, and so are you apparently because otherwise you would not be here complaining about a Frost Lich Jaina who is like the least of players’ problems in Wild, but I refuse to believe anyone “enjoys” losing. They may not care or mind at best. But they certainly are not “enjoying” it.
Here’s an idea; stop playing the game. Seriously I don’t get why people keep playing games they don’t enjoy or think they’re rigged or whatever, unless they somehow get money by doing so.
Funny. I would give you the exact same advice. 
I don’t bother to go through rest of your post(s). All I see is senseless drivel. And more to come no doubt.
It could be. If you have a risk to develop a tumor you try to prevent developing it, even by removing that particular portion of your body.
Between Odd, Even, Hero cards, Open the Wagegap, Keleseth, Mechthun and all that wild will never be fine.
The devs say “Wild is fine, the power level is higher for everything there” while they shoud say “Wild is not fine, but nothing there is fine so therefor it is fine”
I’ll direct you to Motilek’s Goodbye when I reach the computer, I think that’s at least one of his many posts criticizing the turns the game took.
2 Likes
That’s just looking at the data though. Data always has to be interpreted to get a decent conclusion. We could for example say the same about Leeroy: decks that run Leeroy generally get a WAY higher winrate when Leeroy is played vs. when he isn’t played. Does this mean that Leeroy is an “I win”-card? No, the winrate spike is there for the very simple reason that in most games Leeroy only gets played when you have lethal (or close to lethal).
I’m not entirely sure if the same goes for FLJ, but I know that I’ve often lost games where I had drawn FLJ, but never had a good opportunity to play her. So imo, if you want a good idea of the winrate spike a card generates, you should look at the winrate when the card got drawn.
I’m glad you post this. The card itself is indeed not the issue. Your suggestion would however turn the card into a very niche card, only beneficial in an elemental deck. (like I said in my previous post which you seem to have ignored)
Then why isn’t Mage on top of the pack in wild? Mage does indeed have a strong array of spells to choose from, but adding more spells usually comes at the cost of having less minion-power on board. A spell-heavy deck is usually forced to take on a more control-oriented role, simply because it can’t win the face race. So having all those possible spells doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to stuff them all in a single deck.
Couldn’t it also just be that you have an opinion (which you are free to express) and other people have another opinion (which they are also free to express)? You feel frustrated when playing against FLJ (or Wild mages in general), so you want to see some changes to the card/class. We, on the other hand, don’t see any big issues with FLJ or Wild mages, so we would prefer that there are no changes.
The likelihood of us finding a common ground is extremely low, but that doesn’t mean we have to go full caveman and start throwing faeces at each other… So let’s approach this another way: what exactly is your problem with Mage and/or FLJ?
- Do you find it unfair when you lose to FLJ?
- Do you simply find it annoying to face Mages?
- Do you currently struggle in games against Mages? If so, what deck do you play?
- …
The heck does that have to do with FLJ?
See, one thing I’ve noticed is that people who call something out as bad usually are not paragons of wholesomeness themselves. I find the forums to be the same as any other.
Furthermore, using the term “cancer” to describe some users on a forum on the internet is very, VERY disrespectful. And respect goes for a long way around here.
As for the balance of FLJ? I defer to everyone else here regarding that. They have very good points, especially Phillybear.
3 Likes
“See, one thing I’ve noticed is that people who call something out as bad usually are not paragons of wholesomeness themselves. I find the forums to be the same as any other.
Furthermore, using the term “cancer” to describe some users on a forum on the internet is very, VERY disrespectful. And respect goes for a long way around here.”
Based on the above comments I will write the exact same thing others wrote to me.
What do you think who are you to decide what is respectful and what is not. There are almost 8 billion people living on this planet, different cultures and norms. If you think you have the moral highground then you are just wrong.