Let's compare HS to MtG

General Discussion
1

I have played both HS Constructed and MtG for a long time. For the past few years, HS has lost steam, while MtG has - to me - hardly lost any of its shine. I find myself more in the Battlegrounds than in Constructed at the moment. I was excited about the TWIST format, but unfortunately it failed completely, with 2 - 3 OP decks dominating the meta.

What does HS Constructed (and TWIST) need to make it playing it feel creative and rewarding again, compared to MtG? What can the devs realistically do to balance the game and make it a fun experience for new players and old regulars alike? What can they learn from MtG?

2

That Activision Blizzard would be wise to not hire the Pinkertons?

3

That RNG is the root of all evil and 100% RNG is simply a disaster.

4

RNG has always been a part of any CCG - first and foremost, because of the fact that you draw cards.

But true - RNG plays a much larger part in HS. But is that really the root of the problem? Weā€™ve seen metas that had plenty of RNG, but were still challenging, creative and fun.

So - decreasing the impact of RNG is one part of the solution. Others have mentioned decreasing the impact of ā€˜mana cheatingā€™.

Anything else?..

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5

ā€œmuch larger partā€ is an understatement. HS is completely and only 100% RNG. Since the discovery mechanic, one canā€™t play around anything. In a way or another, any class has now access to any other card from any other class at any moment through ā€œdiscoveryā€. Leading effectively to a 100% RNG no matter what.

Mana cheat in HS is completely wrong. In other games, like mtg, mana cheat exists but it has a cost. ā€œDelveā€ for example demands you invested resources to build a graveyard. ā€œConvokeā€ needs you to renounce your dudes to attack as they tap for the ability to cheat mana. It always has a cost, even sacrificing permanents (KC ironworks comes to mind) thus removing board and giving up tempo.

In HS this doesnā€™t happen. Paladin mana cheat is ā€œjust play your cards which you are playing anywayā€. Druid mana cheat is just ā€œfind a card that mana cheats you a huge card that mana cheats everything elseā€. Thereā€™s no sacrifice at all. No loss of tempo, no loss of resources, not even spending resources towards it: itā€™s just ā€œplay your cardsā€. Which is what you do nonetheless.

6

Thanks - good analysis, and recognizable.

7

I mean imagine Lightray in mtg:
RRRRR
Provoke.
Lightray costs R less for each red card in your graveyard.
5/5.

Itā€™s nonsensical.

9

Can you support this with any kind of real proof, other than your gut feeling?.. Hard data?.. I know it does feel that way, but I doubt that it really is the case. Professional players would notice, and there are apps collecting a lot of data (HSreplay among others) - if thereā€™s something fishy with RNG, it would be detected.

11

Itā€™s not controlled RNG. Itā€™s dynamic difficulty.
The higher you climb, the better opponents you face.

In the end the player who has made no mistakes will win. Itā€™s certainly not a given how best to play a hand of cards in Hearthstone. Do you play fast, do you play slowly, do you go face or trade?

The decisions arenā€™t always easy, especially considering how many cards have their own special triggers.

Donā€™t forget that your opponent wants to win just as much as you do.

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13

Just because you donā€™t believe what people have told you doesnā€™t make them incorrect. This matchmaking system has been well documented and used in a ton of games, not just Hearthstone.

14

Nope. More often than not, you can play solidly, get board and hand advantage, set up lethal and then one of the following happens:

  • DK gets a copy of The Scourge with a random discovery and fills the board high rolling. You lose.
  • Mage casts 3 or 4 Solid Alibi in a row, then swings with either Kelthuzad or Astalor or Rommath.
  • Hunter topdecks Faithful Companion and goes face with two King Crush 20/20 each.
  • Paladin finds the Countess.
  • Someone topdecks a discovery card that creates a discovery card that discovers a card that gives immediate lethal.
15

But thatā€™s not due to luck; thatā€™s because the opponent youā€™re facing is actively looking for answers , ways in which to reclaim the board, contest your board or win the long game.

And if a Mage player, for instance,sees that he canā€™t win, then he will stall, trying to find the right cards to do that.

Youā€™re complaining about the power of the cards that allow an opponent to turn the tables in his favor.Yours is just an emotional reply to losing a match that youā€™ve done your best to win, and itā€™s perfectly understandable. I feel this way too sometimes.

How often do you find yourself squaring off against another player in Battlegrounds? There are only two of you left, both of you have great boards.

The better player will actively look for ways to contest his opponentā€™s board so he would win in the end.
The key difference in Battlegrounds is that coming 2nd or 4th place constitutes a win as well, so the losses feel fairer.

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16

My bad, I tend to forget that is actually skill.

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17

My least favorite thing about Hearthstone at the moment is the mana discount avalanche. Itā€™s felt more acutely than before, I guess.

Play a card to discount a card, discover a discounted card, etc." Thereā€™s nothing stronger than that.

I do hope they temper with this in the next expansion.

18

I wrote the truth I guess because my post was flagged for trolling and even removedā€¦ that tells me everything because never happened beforeā€¦ Thanks for confirm. I removed the rest so everyone can calm down, just forget what I wroteā€¦ it was a waiste of time. Have a nice day :smiley: