why this is allowed in this game?
decks with 18cards under 2 mana and you still give them the token ??
this hugh advantage must be stop. agro decks are already fast enough to win in turn 5 or 6 and with that coin their life is even more easier.
Brain instead of RNG would be nice.
Well an easy answer is if you don’t have the coin then the mirror would be a slaughter for whoever goes first.
At least, don’t count coin as spell!
It’s unfair that “second player” is getting anti-counterspell tool, combo tool, etc FOR FREE. Especially if first player didn’t drawed anything that he can use on turn 1.
Coin should just give player 1 extra mana crystal on this turn. Without interacting with “cards played” and “spells casted” things.
Going second gives a huge tempo disadvantage. The Coin is designed to compensate for that. On its own, its effect is not strong enough, hence the second player also gets a second card.
I believe the last time I looked, combination of Coin + extra card was enough to get player going second to an overall 48-49% win rate.
EDIT: Could not find any “across the world” statistics but here are my own win rates for all constructed games played with HSDeckTracker active: going first 69%, going second 53%.
And for my Arena history, I used the statistics tracked by HearthArena. Going first 63.46%, going second 58.38%.
I know a very long time ago every single meta deck favored going first except one Rogue deck and even that was less than a 51%-49% adavantage.
You really have to go out of you way to make you’re deck bad, to make going second an advantage, so asking for nerfs is just nonsense.
you guys didn’t get the point of this Topic
it’s not about the coin itself
it’s about the coin being given to agro decks specifically. this is a big speed boost to someone who is already fast.
they full the board with cheap minions and over turns they buff them to maximize the damage per turn.
which is uncatchable and make you made a bad trades just to survive.
for example: why a Warlock can start the game in turn 1 with 2 3/2 minions because of the coin? or face hunter puting 8 dmage on board in trun 1 with 2 lepor Gnome.
many many times a Start like this will lead you to win in such unfair way.
your opponent can only pray to get the right counter play in the right time otherwise gg in trun 6.
I won’t go into the craziness that would be to define what is an aggro deck because there’s one on every matchup, even control vs control.
And although I kinda like some of the ideas here, namely not considering it a spell but just an artefact, I find that this would do more harm than good. As an example, aggro matches, where the player on the coin is by default the control, would be extremely biased towards the player without the coin. Not giving the coin to a faster deck going second also begs the questions, for instance: on which basis do we decide when it is correct to give the coin or not?, or even if aggro should always go first? if not should aggro be at an imposed disadvantage against other tempo decks that are not considered face decks?
My point is this: it seems to be a simple problem but the solution poses many difficult questions and many possible unintended consequences and that is excluding the definition of aggro because if we include that into the discussion, I’ll go as far as to say that it is not possible to come up with a working solution.
Agreed. Who’s the aggressor in an Aggro vs. Aggro match?
Doesn’t Aggro play Control as well? How can even such algorithm be devised?
There will always be unfavorable matchups for any deck.
Just because Aggro trumps one archetype doesn’t mean that it wins all matchups. Far from it.
I get what you’re saying, I just know your logic is faulty from the stats (and my own experience) that show going first without the coin, even as an aggro deck is better. Gaining a tempo advantage turn 1 but losing it for the follow 8, more than makes up for it.
I recommend to try playing an aggro deck yourself and see how much easier it is to win going first, even in your bias scenarios of aggro dream start vs control missing the answers, that one turn spike, doesn’t make up for being behind the rest of the game (aggro deck turn 10 lol).
Ixnay, even if the stats says the first is better you still feel the pain of bad experience even if it happens once per life time.
and this is happend every 3rd or 5th game. a zoolock or a face hunter with coin can win the game in trun 5/6 thanks for coin boost they got in the early turns.
iam asking you to try playing any control or mid-control deck in Classic. most of your loses gonna be against aggro and super aggro decks the games is over basically in trun 5.
the coin is like 20% tempo boost in such cases. and they are not rare.
They do the same thing without the coin by have extra tempo every other turn and still killing you on turn 6.
I’ve been playing the game for 7 1/2 years, usually from the control side but with enough aggro experience to know that if you give me the choice, I’m going first and I’m gona kill you even faster.
I have to agree, coin + extra card is actually needed. Even back in old times when people played Go they found out going first is such a huge boon.
This is an old law, as firm as failing to try to make everyone rich because then there is no one rich so yes the coin is needed.