Why are only Hunters, Warriors and Shamans allowed to have hero cards? I’ve lost several games now just cuz of these hero cards completely reversing the matchup in my opponents favor, especially Zhul’jin. Zhuljin in Beast hunters is just stupid cuz of the new wyvern twinspell. Hagatha offers infinite spells and Dr. Boom offers insane utility.
These classes are currently the top 3 classes after the release of the expansion. It’s just straight up unfair in my opinion. Anyone else think so?
Zul’jin is just a one-turn swing card that does practically nothing after being played once. Plus about half, if not most, of the current Hunter spells can backfire.
You obviously don’t know what the word ‘infinite’ means if you think Hagatha offers “infinite” spells/value. She can only generate as many spells as the player can play minions.
Dr. Boom, Mad Genius, is powerful, no one can deny that. Perhaps the best of the three. But he’s not anywhere near the same power level as the actual Death Knight Hero cards. And his hero power is random and can be his downfall because of that.
And yet according to HSReplay the best, and only, Tier 1 deck currently is Token Druid. You know, a class without a Hero Card. How is that possible if having Hero cards is an unfair advantage? And Tier 2 has very strong and solid Rogue, Warlock, Mage and Paladin decks. Funnily enough even the only two Shaman decks in Tier 2, Murloc and Big, don’t use Hagatha. She’s not listed as a core, or even popular card, of those decks.
So, as for what I think; how about no?
I was referring to the term “infinite” over the course of the game. Not a single turn. As for Zhul’jin, he is definitely not useless. He can single handedly turn games in your favor and in my opinion is way more stronger in a beast deck than Dr.Boom is in Boom warrior. So how about yes?
I know. And she still won’t generate infinite amount of spells, unless you somehow got infinite number of minions in your deck to play over the course of the game.
Did I say he’s useless? I said he is a one turn-swing card who does nothing afterwards. His hero power, while not bad, is in the grand scheme of things, nothing compared to the other two’s, let alone the previous Death Knight Hero cards’.
Yes he certainly can, depending what spells you played and if RNG favors you. Doesn’t seem to beat Token Druid most of the time and carry Hunter to tier 1, though. Paladin and Rogue seem to be doing better according to win rates too. Without hero cards. Weird, isn’t it?
I don’t care about your biased opinions. Especially when it’s about whether cards should be HoF:ed. I care about data and facts.
Eeer no. How about you instead throw your feelings out the window and look at UNBIASED data and statistics? I look them up on HSReplay.
Zul’jin is basically the equivalent of Shudderwock or Tess (or the original big bad N’Zoth), you could easily print a spell or a 1/1 with same effect. So hating Zul’jin for being a hero card, is flat out nonsensical.
You can argue the value train of the other 2 or ask for Zul’jin to be nerfed/removed but it’s 2 completely different issues.
@Spideros Don’t be an hypocrite, getting a spell for each minion played often allows you to win before running out of minions, and I appreciate that Hagatta is actually bad in fatigue to compensate but it’s really not much
An 8 mana that gives you 5 armor and usually clears the board (as Shaman has lots of cheap small damaging spells and tokens) is already good, then comes the passive hero power in the best token class that can give you lightning storms bloddlusts schemes rains and more, and yes, you can get totemic might and other bad cards but I think getting at least 1 decent card compensates for those especially when your opponent can’t have such value
Zul’jin is totally balanced. You need to build your deck around him, not to mention many Hunter spells from Standard can easily backfire and clear your own board, and after all he costs 10 whole mana. Games dont even last that long. I already removed Zul’jin from my Hunter decks, why would you add him when Token Druids kill you before turn 7?
Hagatha is ok’ish, since shes anti-synergistic with Murloc shaman plus at the point u play her, you dont have a full hand so even if her hero power shouts value, you wont get too much out of it. Control decks on the other hand dont run too many minions so the same rule applies. Hagatha imo could be too strong in a midrange deck, which currently doesnt exist.
Dr. Boom… God damn hes op. This card standalone carries games. Rush for the rest of the game is too much tempo wise, and the hero power is also very good in multiple levels.
Though for me the problem is not even hero cards. Its token druid. I don’t mind aggro decks as long as theres board clears to counter them. Name me an aggro, tempo or midrange deck that hardcounters token druid. There isnt. none. So u either play Control decks with board clears or u get rekt.
What is so hypocrite about my statement? It’s true. If you got no minions left in your hand to play or deck Hagatha’s hero power does nothing. Is it unlikely to happen? Yes. I just get annoyed when people exaggerate and use the word “infinite” in cases like this. Almost as if they don’t know what the word means. Deathrstalker Rexxar’s Hero Power offered infinite value because you could never run out of minions since you could always make one every turn and pay only two mana for it. No other requirements were needed. Hagatha doesn’t do that.
I don’t think you even know what the word ‘hypocrite’ means.
Actually the deck that currently hard counters Token Druid, is Zoo. My guess would be that it’s the only deck the takes the board fast enough…it runs 14 1 drops and 8 2 drops and then has the uber punish card in sea giants.
The thing I like about Token Druid being the top dog is that it’s not a polarizing deck at all. It’s good against everything (except zoo), but not oppressively so. So when my opponent plays bad, I often win the match-up.
But anyway back to the original topic, The eredar lord of the burning legion, would like to remind you that there are currently 4 classes with ‘hero’ cards ![:grinning:](https://d30yn6ctwpaot1.cloudfront.net/en/hearthstone/images/emoji/twitter/grinning.png?v=6" ":grinning:")
Doesn’t exist though.
For someone who’s always talking about data and facts, you seem to know surprisingly little about methodology.
Well, feel free to enlighten me then; how is data from hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of matches gathered by sources like HSReplay NOT unbiased and thus NOT more reliable and valuable than some random salty player’s confirmation bias?
Please. Explain that to me since you seem to know better.
Calm down friend. No need for you to get so agitated. You might be annoyed by the term infinite, but it is true. They get a ton of spells for free cuz of her. The Transform one is especially punishing.
All these decks can function without their respective hero cards and would be more balanced if they do. That is my main point. Token Druid might be at the top, but these 3 classes are in the top 5 and removing these hero cards will at least give the other clans a more fair fight.
They are more reliable. Not sure why you bring this up, I never denied this.
You know what, I take that. You didn’t explain how they’re not unbiased but whatever.
Nope. It’s not. Unless the meaning of the word was just universally changed and no one told me. Excuse me for taking words literally to avoid confusions and misunderstandings.
“So let’s ignore that fact, shall we?”
Those top 5 after Token Druid are fighting with tooth and nail with less than 1% difference in win rates between the strongest (Mech Paladin) and weakest (Mech Hunter). That is about as “fair” of a fight as it can get. If that’s not good enough for you, nothing will be.
Look, you can whine and complain about hero cards being OP, unfair or whatever all you want. But they’re clearly not a problem according to the data we have available, so I think it’s safe to assume they’re not going to be nerfed, least of all HoF:ed early, any time soon before their rotation next year. Better get used to them.
Besides the other classes are most likely going to get their own hero cards in future expansions. Maybe more than one per expansion this time. At least I find it hard to believe they would stick with only three for the entire year.
One of my fave cards is my golden Hagatha which I got from the Witchwood bundle last year. She has been fun to play. Obviously I would not want to see this Hero card removed. She is far from being over powered either. Granted she can give additional spells but that is only provided when a minion is played.
Just because they appear to get a ton of free spells does not mean the ones given are useful. I have lost matches as Hagatha. I have also won matches as murloc shaman before I have even drawn Hagatha.
As Siperos has mentioned I firmly believe that the other classes will also get their own hero cards in future expansions. Removing the existing Hero cards is not the answer. Token Druid, Tempo rogue and Zoo warlock are currently the best decks out there and all have no Hero card.
Lmao…“Mech paladin is the strongest”. That deck was forgotten until ppl started playing it with secrets. Even now pure/secret mech paladin is weaker than Mech hunters. Unless they get a better hand, Mech hunters are far superior. Thief/Tempo rogues can also aggro them hard. The only deck that I’ve ever played is Mech Paladin and i used them to get to Rank 5 this season. So i know what im saying.
As for “infinite”, i dont intend the actual meaning of the word. What i meant to say was “a lot”. I thought this was meant without directly stating it, but i guess you cant stop taking everything literally.
They were probably looking at the stats, which do indeed have Mech Paladin at no.2 behind Token Druid.
https://hsreplay.net/meta/
Wow, I’m surprised. Honestly thought I was the single one playing Mech Paladins cuz I didnt encounter a single one of them while ranking up from 20 to 5 this season. Glad that they’re back. Loved them from the start and always will.
Yeah it was the sleeper pick at launch. The stats were good, but there were so few games being played with the deck that it wasn’t appearing on meta lists/you couldn’t be certain they were reliable, so people weren’t just jumping on the train. Turns out that those numbers were legit, especially against bomb warrior so in the last few days it’s play has spiked.
Yea, i had no problem against bomb warriors lmao. I was surprised that people were actually complaining about bomb warriors.
Most people play Secret Mech Paladins though. I hate secrets cuz i think its a cowardly way to play the game. I just play the old fashioned pure mech. Its the only deck i’ve ever played with lol and I’ve always enjoyed playing it.