Is Kel'thuzad any good?

General Discussion
1

As the title says; is Kel’thuzad any good?

I’ve been playing him a bit as I like the character and the general idea of his kit. Not the best player by a long way and I have had my behind handed to me on a number of occasions!

I understand that he has damage. Great damage. And very nice cc. But is he not a bit too short ranged? I also find his delayed playstyle just a bit too slow.

Obviously, this could all be because I am just a bit crap, but anyone else thinks he could do with either a range increase or a shortening of his ability delays? Not both, just one or the other, or does anyone else have an idea?

2

Kel’thuzad is very very good but he is also super hard to master because all of his skills are skillshots, and without getting your skills to hit he doesn’t even the pillar, which is crucial to his gameplay.

I think KT is in very good state at the moment. It sounds like you need more practice with him, but if you like him don’t let that discourage you from playing him, if you master him he is a beast.

3

he has one of the top winrates at the moment, if anything i expect him to be nerved slightly in the future.

he is a skillshot based hero so if you dont hit them - either dont play him or pratice more.

he is a little bit week to dive, but if a good ktz player has all the time to do his things the hero looks broken.

4

Ah, cheers for the replies! Yeh, just need to practice the skill shots. My main faults are stubbing his Q on the lead minion, having enemies walk out of his W and similarly with his R2.

I definitely get hit hard by dive Heroes. Again, I tend to whiff my W as they walk out of it due to the delay (to be fair, its only 1 second) and just get punished for his short range.

Aw well, hopefully no nerfs incoming. I do indeed fancy mastering him!

5

You should try to learn how the timing to combo Chains into Frost Nova works, with that you should have a majority of his power down. And if you pick Shadow Fissure as your ult, it should extend combo naturally.

But just because the above combo with Shadow Fissure is amazing damage, do not discount Frost Blast’s potential to be a game saver or amazing initiation tool.

6

If I can suggest something you might want to try practicing it on bots. Maybe don’t start with elite AI, but keep that progression up.

Beginner AI are basically sitting ducks, so it will allow you to work on the combo more than on the skillshots. Once you master combos keep on progressing. Elite AI will basically evade any aoe laid on the ground and from my experience their reaction against skillshots is much better than an average player’s. If you have no problems chaining combos against elite AI you would probably do fine against many players.

I wouldn’t suggest playing QM with him, as long as you don’t join with team of friends, there are some heroes who can mop the floor with kel thuzad and he is horrible pick for qm, especially divers like illidian or tracer who can avoid basically everything you throw at her, they will give you very hard time.

7

KTZ is good, but i think he’s more of a situational hero and not an all around hero like KT and Jaina is for the amount of skill added.

Sometimes it’s not just about KTZ as a hero too… Sometimes your KTZ pick can be amazing against your opponents but your teammates could play very poorly making you get destroyed even tho your pick was good. Keep that in mind too xD

8

Playing a lot against him in recent weeks, i find that many KTZ players have a problem positioning themselve. They are vulnerable to flanks, do not use their tank for cover and often step up before crucial abilities of the enemy team are on cooldown. You basically want them to focus on someone else, so you can dish out all the CC and dmg within a short period of time on 2 or 3 people. So focus on displacement and poke dmg in the mean time.
I also find that they cannot deal very well with Johannas trait (rendering the chains useless) or certain amour abilities (Arthas icebound fortitude, Diablos spell armour etc…). If you survive his first onslaught (e.g. by use of ultimates) and KTZ’s abilities are on CD, he is pretty much dead.

BTW, i would recommend to play QM. If you hold your ground against Genji and such without having a tank, you should thrive with one on your side :slight_smile:

1 Like
9

Recent games I played a bit of Jaina again, and I wanted to share some similarities I noticed. With Jaina, we all know how she can combo-wombo with several abilities. Through my handful of games, I noticed, that if I initiated a fight or went in first, I wouldn’t get my stuff off correctly. I had to sit back, let someone else on my team knock on the door and when the enemy then was engaged, had used an ability or two, then make my move. And it worked every single time, except when I dun goofed and missed my skillshots ^^.

I bring this point up of having to wait, because it is the same for KTZ. He is also an ability damage frost-mage(lich) with mainly AoE spells with some component of CC attached to it. He is arguably harder than Jaina, but also need to get his abilities off in the same pattern for maximum effect. He also needs someone else to shake hands with the enemy saying “how do you do”, before he comes in with his bombs.

KTZs power is unlocked after his quest is done, this is alpha and omega priority. If the quest isn’t done, there is no KTZ, empty seat on the cinema row. Focus the quest, then you got the tools.

Then there is the timing of abilities, chaining people into the root, with damage on top. It is almost mandatory to take Glacial Spike active talent to create a hitching post where you want a single target to die at. With multiple enemies, you use them against each other. It is hard skillshots, I’m a terrible KTZ myself, but when you nail someone and get the combo off, oh man it feels good.

Another hard thing to learn is boundaries, this goes for any given hero really. KTZ is weak, easily killed by dive-heroes, so positioning and being around teammembers to protect yourself is key. His damage is indeed very delayed, bound by CDs, and very much is surrounded by the fact you need to catch enemies out of position and blow em up. So patience and look for that good opening where you can do your thing, then you get value out of the hero.

Playing against him is annoying, when you constantly find yourself chained, then rooted and all kinds of damage landing on you, and all the meanwhile hes like safely in his teams backline, out of reach. It feels like having to play around a Mosh Pit, except its just a normal ability kit.

10

Where you and others will struggle the most is he’s very, very susceptible to Dive, Stun, Slow or Focused; if he’s not protected when jumped he’s dead - which currently A LOT of heroes have as just their basic abilities, as he has no ‘true’ means of escape like a speed boost or shield, only his root (or chain, but if nothing is around and you have no ice-shard or it’s on CD, gl.)

11

against people that are really good with him, he is honestly a bit broken once he completes his trait quest, especially if his team deafts around him to force the enemy team into position. In those cases he can just do a TPK at every teamfight.

12

His burst damage is ridiculesly high. Just another unbalanced herp

13

I heard "pros " don’t pick him because they can’t complete his quest. If there is anyone who could confirm this, please do.

14

In general you will see that pro players don’t opt for quest-based talents that take time to complete or pulls focus away from their task in order to complete said talent. They play differently than 98% of the playerbase, its meaningless to us peasants. So you are correct in your observation.