Her damage per second is insane + silence. It would be kind of okay if not her constant vanishes, escapes, charges for a long distance with a short cooldown and unrevealed. She escapes TOO easily to have such a huge damage.
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Pop her out of stealth, then she canât Garrote.
Fixed.
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Both Valeera and Samuro have the same problem of having too easy escapes due to their invisibility. Playing against them is so tilting (59%wr Samuro haHAA).
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Why people always ask for nerfs to the weakest heroes?
Samuro has high winrate because he is exceptional at clearing camps and split pushing. He doesnât actually have to be in team fights to give his team an advantage and win the game, but many people donât understand the basic concepts of the game and then they think he is op, if so murky and sylvanas also are op, everyone is.
Samuro is weak, his strongest side is split push, soak and camp clearing, thatâs what you have to counter, not samuro himself.
Valeera is strong and she needs some nerfs towards her cc. The has too much cc and dmg at the same time, not to mention her escapes. Pop her from stealth you say ? With her teleport and unrevealable status ? And movement speed while stealthed.
Yes correct. Blizzard even made it hilariously easy to see stealth heroes now, so if you canât pop them from stealth, the issue is PICNIC.
The teleport only kicks in 3secs after using Vanish. Unrevealable is only active for the first second of Vanish.
Youâre basically trying to present a scenario where Valeeras are running around non-stealthed, approach you in melee range still non-stealthed, then quickly doing D-E-X-X combo on you. Yet you argue movement speed which is only active during stealth and which is irrelevant if shes in melee range non-stealth.
Youâre contradicting yourself, possibly because you havenât played her, then you would know she isnât doing the scenario youâre trying to describe, but actually doing another scenario where the counter is âpop her from stealthâ like Iâve said already.
I got Valeera at 25, played her mostly before revamp with Ambush teleport, single out build. Tried that post-revamp and failed miserably, had to rethink playstyle completely. Picked up the Garrote play and faired much better. I also learned youâre heavily bound by cooldowns now as Valeera, you have to wait 3secs for your teleport for easy-access, you have to have Stealth to Garrote-Open, Vanish is 8sec with no reduction anymore at 20 talent. So again, you would know this is you actually played her. Pop her from stealth, you force her back for 11sec (that is 8+3 for those bad with math).
And it is easy to pop stealth heroes, you can see them miles away after stealth revamp. So there is absolutely zero excuse on that front unless youâre playing a hero that literally have no abilities on actionbar to pop stealth heroes.
Her escapes arenât really that good, they are in comparison to other heroes pretty bad actually. She has a small dash on her Q which can be used to dodge say a skillshot, but then youâre on 4sec cooldown and Q is your main damage, so youâre choosing to do a small dash or deal damage. This dash range gets destroyed when taking Mutilate on 7 as part of current build, making it harder to dodge skillshots and stick on people vs old-build pre-revamp.
Vanish is 8sec, any form of dot damage will break it, so you gotta wait those out before you can actually benefit from 20% movement speed. Valeera doesnât operate by being constantly attacking like an sustain-damage dealer, it is hit-and-run play which requires Vanish. Counter Vanish, counter Valeera.
I think you refer to her ulties as escapes too, so lets talk about those. Smoke Bomb isnât an escape per se as youâre bound to a small area, although I tend to use it as such, probably against popular opinion. I use it to buy time for my Vanish to get back, the seconds donât align up why I have to run out, Q away, wait a second, then D. It is 1min CD heroic ability, which you can easily counter by tossing stuff into the Smoke, and simply move out of the Smoke to stop taking damage.
I havenât played much with Cloak of Shadows, personal choice really, but I do see Valeeras taking it. It doesnât offer much of an escape, it is a 15sec on-use Greater Spellshield for 1,5sec Window only, used to block say a Pyroblast. It has Unstoppable as well, but you cannot use that if youâre already stunned, so it is not a get-out-of-jail-free-card. Another good effect is removal of dots into Vanish, but it doesnât offer more.
Like PieknyTomek says regarding Samuro, nowadays hes used as splitpusher, mercer, really good on BhB as example. His glory days of ganking unawares are over. Most of his strength lies in incredibly buffed Mirror Images, not himself. I played him when he came around, and ganking was so much fun, triangulating the mirrors, getting perfect opening with W-crit. Nowadays his play is more about distraction, jukes (higher skill ceiling plays), wasting opponent time.
To summarize, people hastily judge heroes because they just lost a game against a good player using said heroes. The best way to educate yourself is to play the heroes yourself, and you will very very often realize how they are balanced, their strengths, their weaknesses and your conclusion will be âit is harder than it looksâ. For every single hero in the roster, there are bad players and good players playing that hero, donât judge the hero, judge the player.
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Hi,
I just started playing her after avoiding her for a long time. I avoided her because I feel she offers so little. Her kit allows her do to mercs, but not well: combo points are not awarded on mercs so she cant really bring her tools to the job.
Her lane clearing is OK. Nothing great, nothing bad. Same as with mercs; her tools benefits from hitting those pesky heroes.
On the topic of heroes; she can do a number on most Assassins and supports, specialists. She canât engage tanks to well cause that puts her more in the line of fire. And she is properly made out of paper.
Innvisability is now jokingly easy to spot. Issue is that vs other stealth heroes you canât do a stealth opener. Nova can shoot you from stealth, Zeratul can do his stuff too. You can break stealth and hit W. And thats about the worst damage and utility waste I can imagine.
So what does it boil down to?
I am not sure. Seems she is good at harassing early game, and late game she can be a hero or a villain. If you get a pick-off for your team you will be the hero. If you fail and die, the villain. Personally I think the risk is too great, and Iâd rather pick an assassin with some propper solo and teamfight utility, like Thrall or even genjo (I donât play Genjo, prefer to pretend he does not exist).
Will grind her some more to see if I find her purpose!
This is a team game , if u are playing a squishy backliner u got stay with your team , where does samuro and vallera cause a problem ?
And a side note: it seems eviscerate does not always go off when i try to use it. Some kind of long animation or what?
so your proposal is that laning shouldnât happen if opponent has valera?
Stay together âin generalâ. The laning phase in HotS is extremely short - and unlike League, you donât physically have to kill minions to soak. A lot of players tend to play as if they forget this simple fact.
Teams would generally be aiming to roam in groups to mass-soak, punish over-extends or help push out when needed. In terms of solo-laning, if you are dealing with gank-squads or roaming stealthers looking for kills, there is nothing stopping you from letting the opponent laner get a tiny push, enough for you to slow-soak experience closer to your turrets and give said stealthers very little reason to go to your lane. Failing that, you are probably part of the 4man group rotating between two lanes anyway, to which Valeera by herself isnât going to achieve much by taking that on by herself â but if youâre a soaking duo-lanes solo and take a nice stroll away from safety, sheâd definitely like to have a chat with you.
The general mission at this point is to reach 10 before the enemy. You have less chance of doing this if youâre constantly offering yourself on a plate for ganks, be it over-extention or lack of awareness. Dying is the worst thing as they gain XP for the kill and your team lose more soak potential. If this means you have to hang back rather than push to avoid [insert stealther here] paying you a visit during laning, thatâs perfectly fine - all you need to ensure is that you can remain within soak-range of minions. You donât have to be smack in the middle of the lane being a bully, even if you know you can win that trade. As soon as you see stealthers on the map elsewhere, you know you have a window of opportunity to do more.
After that point you really should be sticking together, forcing gankers or stealthers to have to navigate through danger to try and trade. Late-game speaks for itself - Iâve lost track of the amount of placement players I meet who play as if the match still has a solo/laning phase at level 16-20+ and think that itâs a wonderful idea to wander off to get ganked solo in a lane and give the opponents a 4v5 advantage for the next 60+ seconds.
As for Valeera (or stealthers in general), theyâre a wonderful means of punishing bad positioning, bad decision making and over-extension. The downside is if they do not net kills (the XP making up for the fact theyâre doing more roaming than consistent soaking), then the advantage will either wane or remain even, rendering it down to team-fights mid-game - the point where teams spend most of their time together, only splitting when necessary. This is when the job of the stealther should be made as difficult as possible by not farting around away from your team or wandering off solo without knowing exactly where the enemy is.
Valeera - Stun/Silence burst & peel.
Zeratul - In/Out kill-secure with optional heroic setup potential.
Nova - Ranged harass and kill secure.
Samuro - Essentially a stealthed specialist focused on misdirection and building XP/Macro advantages.
Perhaps missclick or not enough energy
To make it clear for people that are âassumingâ: she has a teleport to close the distance fast, movement speed to dodge skillshots, unrevealable duration so she can stealth mid-fight and use her openers without being worried that she will be poped out(if she is in melee range), has a talent that reduces Vanish cd to 4s when using Ambush, Cloak of Shadows is a cleanse with dot removal and spell armor, her dash cd is reduced to 1s if she hits a hero so she can also use it as an escape, enables kills through armor reduction, slows, stuns, silences. At 20 she can move faster than mounted characters or she can stealth with an auto Cloak of Shadows. Also she has healing reduction.
Yes, I heard that she is weak in competitive but the only reason I read was that she is only good while dueling. However she has almost everything that makes a hero meta tier: cc of almost every conceiveable nature, healing reduction and armor debuffs, cc resistance with Cloak of Shadows, dive, acceptable waveclear with the Flurry quest, high health(2000), build diversity.
All the points you mention are out of context and doesnât reflect how she actually is being played. I have already argued how these points actually work and you havenât presented counter-argumentation based on realistic premise. Youâre just repeating your previous post with buzzwords on a surface level. Not really productive if you want to talk about the points you think might be an issue.