the thing with not joining backfill option would be extremely popular however the leavers don’t disappear so you would only get games that just dies out of lack of players, therefore everyone who selects the option to not join backfill are also banned when they leave games to make sure they don’t leave games destroying the experience for other players.
however if we’re gonna go down that route why shouldn’t these players just play competitive instead anyways if they are bothered by backfill?
You’d just know what the window is and leave then. It would just kick the can down the road.
Exactly, “comp” is just a chill mode with something apparently on the line.
And you actually get to play full matches not this duff defend only games.
i think there’s a weird relation to ranked games for players, they say all these things about backfill and punishing leavers, yet they hesitate to play the only mode that really does that.
and really that comes down to either being hypocritical or having an irrational fear of the mode itself that they run away from that would solve their issues.
The thing is, there is no issue with having backfill in and of itself. I’m totally FOR backfilling, there is just one specific type of backfilling I have an issue with, and that is when I get sent into an instant defeat screen. The game is essentially already over, as soon as the overtime-bar depletes. And there I am, in spawn, choosing my character, and then instantly defeat. If people want to leave early(because they don’t like the map for example), or leave mid game(because something in real life came up etc), that’s COMPLETELY fine. I have 0 issues with those leavers, or being a backfiller in those situations.
I don’t think there should be a need for a system where we can circumvent backfill, backfill in itself is a good thing for the game. It’s just this one specific type of backfill that is ruining the experience for other players that become the backfillers.
They CAN ofcourse, but comp is basically 2 times longer in game time(on average) compared to qp. Because you have to play as BOTH attacker, and defender. The games are longer, and most people that play ranked do so to climb the ranks, and have a serious game where they tryhard a bit more. Note that I said MOST, not all. Some play chill in ranked, but in general, ranked is a vastly more competetive and serious mode than qp. That doesn’t mean qp should be in a bad state. They are pretty different, but some prefer the appeal of just doing a 10 minute match, instead of a 20 min one.
Because numbers of SR and colour of rank scare them.
Even though it literally doesn’t matter.
No one cares what rank, or SR someone is.
But the games have better flow, more structure and less people completely arse about in them.
It is just a better place to play and learn the game.
But sadly, these SR botherers get so mad and toxic about it, it does put some people off.
your last paragraph is exactly why people should be allowed to just come and go in quick play.
It is just a chill, pick up mode. No commitment, no pressure, no worries.
You add stupid penalties to that, then suddenly there is a commitment, suddenly there is pressure and worry.
At that point you should have just played ranked.
you do understand that there are still long games in QP with control points? what happens then? people gonna leave after 10 minutes? then you’re still gonna have the leaver/backfill issue don’t you?
and not all games in competitive are long either because you can get steam rolled aswell, the only difference is that you get to play overwatch how it is supposed to be played in the official ruleset.
now ask yourself this question, how often have you just sat around after your first game to then instantly qeue for the next one in QP?
time is very much so not really the relative question here.
and if it was, you should be able to leave a game and the requirement for backfilling should exist for these games aswell because if you don’t know if you got 10 minutes to play and might need to leave for any reason you kinda want to be able to without getting punished which also means those who are left behind need someone to fill in for them because all they might need is that game where they backfilled for 5 min if that’s all the time they are gonna be playing anyways.
hence, don’t request something that doesn’t make sense for a short game mode that isn’t ment to be taken seriously.
as for the try-hard aspect of it, really the lower you go you will probably find less try-hard people in comp than in QP honestly as QP is such a mixed bag.
I can’t speak for others, but I’m definitely not scared about this at all. It’s more about convenience of fast games, and not getting trash team-mates that only serve to ruin my hard earned ranks. Just because you don’t care about your SR whatsoever doesn’t mean this is the norm. Most people in ranked play ranked because they want to climb in rank. However, there ARE exceptions, ofcourse, as with all things.
For you, yes, but not for the majority of players.
True, this is something that matters to the person climbing themselves, as they can use it as a measure of their abilities to a certain extent. But ofcourse, this is a team game, and not a single-player game. So luck with teammates naturally plays a part aswell.
I agree to this first part, but the amount of toxic players in comp is far more vocal than the ones in qp, I can guarantee you that. Especially if you queue solo. There is better structure and flow though, that’s true, but the games also last alot longer than qp, which turns some people off to the idea of continuously playing this. Aswell as whether they have a good day or not in terms of aim etc, and might not want to risk falling down because they are not on point with their aim etc.
You can get more or less the same experience in qp, as they both follow the same meta setups, and by that I am referring to the 2-2-2 setups.
Which part of my last paragraph are you referring to?
Are you implying that commitment in the SMALLEST shape and form is a bad thing? Commitment in a game that isn’t ranked doesn’t mean that commitment in itself is bad. And it’s really not alot to ask for. If their commitment is that weak, then they should go play something else. Why even commit time to the game at all, if they can’t even stay in a game to the end when they are about to lose? ESPECIALLY if they don’t care whether they win or lose in the first place. If they have to step on others and ruin those players experiences for their own selfishness, then their selfishness should be curbed, not accepted. It’s just what would be better for MOST players, and putting the majority above the individual. As it should be. If they think the penalties are stupid, they can blame themselves, or go play something else, and the rest of the game would be better off without them and their selfishness anyways. Quite simple, really.
Ranked is serious mode, and lasts more or less twice as long on average compared to qp, not everyone want to commit 20 mins to a game, but committing 10 is alot easier.
The best bit is… all the functionalilty is there for your to create your own custom game.
you pick how many rounds, who plays, every little detail. You can ban people for leaving.
Why don’t you just do that if you want it so much?
Sure, there are exceptions, but the increased time in qp just reflects back to the additionally increased time in ranked aswell. The only mode that sort of stay the same throughout, is the control points one, but since we can’t change maps, it’s no point in committing time to a ranked that COULD be 10-15mins control point, like it would also be in qp, when it COULD be a 20+min payload/hybrid, 2CP aswell. By that reasoning, there is a 25% chance that you will get a match that lasts as long as QP, and 75% chance that you will get twice as long as QP.
What do you mean? please clarify. Because it sounds like you think I have an issue with the backfill system in general, but I really don’t. I have an issue with last second leavers. Imagine a scenario, we are on Oasis, and it’s 1-1. Last match has been started, and the enemy team is leading 99% - 0%, and it’s in overtime. And “my team” just lost a teamfight. Someone on “my team” leaves, and I get backfilled into their spot, and all I have time to see is the loadingscreen, hearing Athena say: “travelling to Oasis…DEFEAT!” back to the queue I go. Didn’t even get to choose hero, or even if I did, I would have no time to get to the point. THOSE leavers are the ones I have a problem with. They SHOULD stay until “defeat” has been said, and then they can leave. No need to watch potg, stat-screen, wait 30 seconds to get to menu, etc. Just wait for the overtime bar to deplete, and THEN leave. That is the type of players that should get punished. I don’t have an issue with backfill if it’s 1-1, and someone got tilted, and left, and now I have to take their place. That way I can actually play the game, and not be met with an instant defeat, you get what I’m saying?
ofcourse, and you could even steamroll yourself, and that’s fine. But the same goes for qp. I’m speaking generally here, and on average. It’s just normal that in one mode, you play as either attacker, or defender. In the other one, you play as both, but on turns. On average, the comp game will take twice as long. But ofcourse, there are exceptions, I’m not arguing against that at all. But I hope you get my point.
Well it really depends, I do both, as I’m unemployed and living on welfare, I have alot of free time on my hands. I sometimes log in, play one game, didn’t feel like playing more, go watch some series or play something else, and later, maybe I play some more. Sometimes I can play for hours on end, but if I feel like my aim is not where I want it to be, or is at the quality I expect of myself to play in ranked, then I wont. I want to climb in ranked, to the point where I can have even matches with equally skilled people. However, there are alot of bad apples on the ladder pulling me down, and making the ranked experience a sort of 1 step forward, 2 steps back situation, which can be quite frustrating when I can see that I’m clearly being pulled down by a mccree with 12% accuracy. That’s not good, and definitely not the same level of player as me. And since this game is so team-based, that can be a turn-off aswell. It’s not fun for me to try to climb, when others don’t have the same mindset. Therefore, I prefer the quick matches in QP instead, and I can just play as good as I can, without getting any downsides if we lose. Sure, I won’t climb either, but I’d rather not climb at all, than to fall down because of inadequate teammates.
Depends who you are asking, really.
And this sounds like a normal backfill, which I have no quarrels with at all. Backfilling is great, but not when it’s related to the last second leavers. If they gotta go when there is 1 min left of the match, then fine. Naturally I would prefer a fresh game, just like everyone else wants, but with 1 minute, something can actually be done. So 1 min backfill is completely fine with me. Had several games that turned around with one minute remaining, but the overtime games… I can count on 2 hands, in my over 1700hours of qp, the amounts of times we’ve turned a game like that around. 99% of the time, it’s just an instant loss, and that’s infuriating, especially if you queue as dps.
Requesting that people that leave as a habit at the end of the game gets punished would be good for the game overall. Sure, an occasional leave because something came up, and they really had to go, sure, I’m cool with it. The numbers of this happening would be WAY lower than what they are at this point of the game’s history. It wouldn’t solve the problem completely 100%, but it would reduce the numbers DRASTICALLY, which would make the experience for the majority of players, better. That’s the point.
Sure, qp is a mixed bag, and I’m fine with that. I know what I sign up for when I want to play qp. But it would be great to actually get to play, and not just see a defeat screen as soon as I get in there. I’m not looking for balance, I’m looking for a way to curb the last second leavers. I’ve made my point about that plenty clear. Backfill is good! Last second leavers, very very bad for the game.
I don’t want to sit there and adjust rules etc, and wait for the people that wants to go play “qp” in custom games. They can just fix this issue instead, and qp would be in a much better spot. Custom games, lol. I just want to play qp. Press button, sit in queue, play match. but at this point, it’s more like: press button, sit in queue, gets game, instant defeat, back in queue, then play.
Because it simply isn’t qp. It would be a qp-clone, and I would have to make it, and sit and wait for people to join etc. I cba. I just want to play qp. And over the years ever since the game was released, this has never been such a huge problem in qp as it is now. Leavers have always been here, since day one, but it’s the frequency of leavers that has skyrocketed, and this ruins for SOOOO many people that are in queue, and just wants to play the game, as they’ve always done. We can never get rid of all, but we CAN reduce their numbers. It would be a good thing for the game, but bad for the serial-leavers. And that’s good. Nobody likes them, so too bad for them if they can’t be selfish. The game should take prio to their selfishness, that’s just the most logical thing to do.
Why would you punish people in quick play.
That is just counter productive.
So what you sre saying is you can’t be bothered to make something that would be better in your eyes??
Then why should blizzard do something for you?
You have never given hard numbers on how this would increase numbers of people playing quick play.
(In fact adding dumb penalties for irrelevant things would probably reduce numbers)
Because a “one for all” approach is by default better than an “all for one” approach. Better to punish the serial leavers for being selfish and ruining the experience for other players, than to allow them to ruin it for others.
How is that counter productive? We are literally talking about the serial leavers having to wait 5 seconds more, versus, the long queue times of all others. ESPECIALLY dps players. One guy should wait 5 seconds? or the other should wait 12 mins, and then 8 mins more? so, waiting 5 seconds versus 20 mins in queue. Which has a more unfair outcome of that situation if there is no punishment for the selfish guy not willing to wait 5 seconds?
Naturally, he shouldn’t be allowed to have the power to do so. But if he chooses that power, then he should have it as a double edged sword. He can leave fast, and ruin for one guy, but it should ruin for him aswell. it’s only fair. Really. nothing counter productive there at all.
so it’s only last second backfill and ending up on defeat screens?
well yeah it is a problem, but it is a problem you can’t solve by punishing all leavers
and really something that shouldn’t exist because they really don’t get into the next game quicker and winning and losing a quickplay game have no ramifications except for not receiving XP for the game that they were in which to many don’t mean a thing.
but it is a loophole and really there’s no good way to fix it without making it unnecessarily complicated and most likely affect people who don’t care about it will feel more the negative effect than the people it should affect.
How many leaves is serial leaving?
Over how many games you counting it?
Is it a FIFO system or LIFO system for counting it over that period?
What’s the time limit for “late” leaving?
As Renegade said, any system would over complicate it and mostly be a net negative in terms of engagement.
how would it be “better”? it would just be a clone of what the game should actually be like, and there is no need to ban people, I never said to do so, I just said punish the serial-leavers that leave at the last second every single game.
Because I paid them fullprice for a game I really like. And it would make the game I so very much like, into a better one. That’s why. Why should this other guy who leaves be able to ruin the experience for others who paid aswell? it’s about standards. if standard is low, you don’t give up and move to something else, atleast not until you try to get it improved first.
I didn’t claim it would raise the numbers, I simply said it would reduce the amount of leavers, as some of them don’t want to get punished, which could be avoided by staying a few seconds more. It’s not really a steep price to pay. What I claimed, is that this will improve the quality for players, as the game would get closer to how it’s always been, when there wasn’t a rampant amount of people leaving at the last second. This happens ALL the time now. Before, it happened aswell, but it was rather rare. That’s what I’m arguing for. Make it better, like it was before.
what makes you think so? You honestly think there are SO many players that leave the games, that this is the most normal thing for players to do? please… Most people stay until the end, but in more or less every game, there is some dude that leaves right at the end. Not 5 or 6, but almost always 1. And those 1’s, could just stay 5 seconds more, and nothing would happen to them. Simple. If they don’t want to wait 5 seconds, then fine, punish them, because they ruin the experience for some poor guy sitting in queue for 12 mins already. It’s not fair at all. So yes, punish THOSE players. They should learn to have a minimum requirement of 5 seconds of patience.
PS.: Notice that I’ve said serial leavers. An occasional leave doesn’t need to be punished, but if this happens over and over and over, and they have no respect for other players time, then they should be punished. Definitely.
What makes you think adding dumb penalties would add players. You’ve provided zero data.
How many leaves is serial leaving?
Over how many games you counting it?
Is it a FIFO system or LIFO system for counting it over that period?
What’s the time limit for “late” leaving?
Correct, that is the ones I have an issue with, yes.
I suggest some sort of measurement to see how often this happens. And based on this frequency, they could be placed in sort of like a “un-prio queue”, where they have to wait longer for games than usual. Would work great in my opinion. That way, there is no need for them to leave earlier to get new rounds, because they would just be in queue longer anyways. And it would obviously need a sort of timer attached to it. What this timer would be, I don’t know, but I suggest that somewhere between 1 min and 30 seconds until game ends, would be a good place to start. Or with control maps, if the score is 1-1, and the enemy team has between 80-90%, then it would kick in on those. Numbers are negotiable ofc, I’m just spitballing ideas here. Exactly how we get to a solution is a good thing to discuss, but atleast you acknowledged that this is a problem in the first place. So atleast now we are on the same page with that. How to balance it, or what could possible solutions be, that is something I’m very interested in hearing more about. But as a starting argument, I don’t think rewarding players that stay is a good thing to think, as this should just be the norm, AND, if people don’t care about the rewards at all, then the problem persists. Punishment in this situation is the correct way to go in my opinion, but exactly what the punishment should be? that’s something I’d love to hear more about.
I dunno, you tell me. I think it should be a sort of % based thing, starting from the day it would be implemented. So if you say, played 20 matches in a day, and you leave at the overtime on the games you lose, lets say you have 60% win, and 40% loss, that means you would leave 8 matches, I’d say you are a serial leaver. Even, I think this should apply for leaving right before winning aswell, because it should be consistent. But you tell me, if you have any input on the matter, or ideas.
In my opinion, it should be a constant. It should prevent people from leaving MOST games, but that doesn’t mean it should be 50/50. I’d say maybe around 20% leave rate should “tip you over the scale”, but there should be no way to track this stat, other than if you actually write a journal. But honestly, to go to that length just to leave 5 seconds earlier? be my guest and log your matches if it pleases you. That would in a way be punishment aswell, and most people wouldn’t bother to do so anyways, so it’s no big deal.
I don’t know what FIFO and LIFO stands for, so please explain this to me, and I’ll give an answer after you do so.
I’d say somewhere between 1 min and 30 sec left of the match, except on control points, as they don’t have timers, on those, I’d say between 80-90% in the enemy’s favor. But I’m open to hear different timers and percentages on this. In my eyes, it would be fair to put it around this point, but I’m open to suggestions.
Not necessarily, depends who it affects, and in this case, it wouldn’t even be an issue for most people, as most people actually stay until the match concludes. There is still alot of impatient and selfish people leaving at the end, in almost every match you see them, but they are definitely the minority. Those players would basically have a choice. if they know about the system, but chooses to ignore it, that’s their prerogative, but it would in effect just punish them aswell, just like they ruin for others. It would be fair. But if they opt to stay a few more seconds, then nothing happens. in fact, they would instead rack up some good “karma”, as they didn’t leave, and their % requirement to be in “un-prio” or whatever the punishment would be, further off because of it. Effectively rewarding AND punishing at the same time. win-win.
I never said it would add more players. I’m simply saying that the number of last second serial leavers would go down. And that’s all I’m talking about improving here in the first place. Maybe more players will like this change and come play more qp, or, maybe they wont. But that’s not really what it is about. It’s about improving the quality of the experience for players. There is nothing in this game that feels more sh***y than to sit in queue for long periods of time, only to be instantly met with a defeat screen. And it’s clear that I’m not the only one thinking this. People want it to change, and that’s why we address it in the forums, in hopes that it would be seen, and maybe get some more focus to solve it if there is enough interest.
Or, maybe nothing happens at all. Could be aswell, but still better to bring it up and let our voices atleast be out there, so there is a chance that they can be heard, rather than staying quiet and doing nothing. That would definitely not change anything.