Another uninteresting Torbjörn thread

So I am terrified of the Torbjörn rework, to be honest here. Especially because I do not think that any of the reworks worked out well so far, looking at both Symmetra and Mercy, or even the minor reworks like Hanzo. I can only hope that it is going to be like the Symm 2.0 and thus won’t get nerfed into the ground two weeks after the release. My only prediction, looking at the pattern in front of us is Molten Core being an ability on a too short CD (get it - 'cause Mercy and Symm both got their previous ults as skills).
Anyways, this is my what, third or fourth rework idea.

1.) Health changes
Additional 50 armor to his health pool.

2.) Rivet gun changes

  • LMB projectile speed increase from 57 to 80.
  • LMB fire rate decrease from 0.6 sec to 0.7 sec.
  • RMB fire rate increase from 0.8 sec to 0.7 sec.
  • RMB minimal falloff range increase from 7 meters to 14 meters (maximum stays at 20).

3.) Forge hammer changes

  • Damage decrease from 55 to 50.
  • Every third hit reloads Rivet gun.
  • Every third consecutive hit on a player or the turret is critical.
  • Swing speed increased from 0.8 to 0.7.
  • Increase range to standard quick melee range.

4.) Armor pack + Scrap changes

  • Armor packs grant 50 armor instead of 75.
  • Scrap requirement decrease from 50 to 40.
  • Bodies grant 20 scrap instead of 15.
  • Turrets no longer drop scrap on being destroyed.
  • Increase of projectile speed from 12 to 15.

5.) Turret changes

  • Can no longer build a turret.
  • Can build a Combat Turret.

6.) Combat Turret Statistics:

  • Has a maximum health of 25 with a 100 armor.
  • Fires 6 times a second, for 5 damage each time.
  • 6 second cooldown.
  • When deployed it starts with 25 health, gaining 100 armor over 0.75 second. Each hit with the Forge hammer adds 30 armor during this process.
  • Has 33% faster rotation speed.
  • Can be upgraded with 3 swings, each one taking 10 scrap or an armor pack to get a protective metal shield that covers about 75% of the front.
  • Doesn’t gain the shield from Molten Core.
  • About 20% smaller than the level 1 turret.

7.) Molten Core changes

  • Charge requirement increase from 1625 to 1800.
  • Upon activation reloads Rivet Gun.
  • Reload speed and rate of fire for Rivet gun and Forge hammer increased by 50%.
  • Torbjörn gains 250 armor.
  • Duration increase from 12 seconds to 15 seconds.
  • Scrap generation speed is doubled (from 2/sec to 4/sec).
  • Combat Sentry gains AP-rounds, increasing the damage from 5 per shot to 6, while also ignoring armor effects.

Some annoying bugs n’ such that are in the need for some fixing:

  • Scrap/armor in places that cannot be reached, like being stuck under cars, or in walls.
  • Turret not colliding well with the terrain, making us unable to place it on certain stairs or other misc spots. Maybe allow Torbjörn to place it on walls?

Why though:
Torbjörn should be better as a hero, and his turret should be… also better. I mean, in higher palys the turret is just a little addition, it is not really used (granted Torbjörn isn’t used either), while in the lower elos the turret is a real headache for people. This in theory would be a nice change because it makes it more effective in fast combat and skirmishes, improving the effectivness in the high elos, while making it a lot less opressive in the lower ones. Yay.
The Combat Turret does 2 more damage per second than a level 1 now, and does 4 less if you factor in armor. The fact that it won’t be destroyed by any splash damage when placed, the lower cooldown and that it builds and turns fast should make up for the loss of damage somewhat.
And of course, the gun changes. I tried to be reasonable, but these changes are needed a bit. Torbjörn is getting outclassed. His gun is okay, but not ideal at all. RMB is just trash, these changes should give him a bit more help when fighting up-close, while the slightly slower fire rate on his LMB with improved projectile speed should make him a bit better in combat but worst at spamming chokes, which is a win-win to me.
As far as the Forge Hammer change goes, your gun reloads if you have the hammer in your hand for about 2.1 seconds. If the swing speed increase takes effect, these numbers will be the same, 2.1 sec, or 3 swings. The third swing being a critical is just something I stole from TF2. This of course opens up interesting synergies during Molten Core.
Lastly the Molten Croe/Armor changes. I think nerfing the armor pack in such a manner is needed. I mean it is kind of a nerf, kind of a buff. You get less armor for the scrap, but you can hand out more armor even if you factor out the turret scrap. Just looking for turning Torbjörn into more of an off-support than he is now.

That’s all I can yap about this, feel free to comment, ignore, call me out on it, or whatever y’all feel like. I am open for a discussion, but I get this is not exactly a hot topic. Though it is nice to know how the developers are putting a lot of thought into it. Anyhoo, who else is afraid of the rework?

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People are just dumb when it comes to dealing with Torb and bis turrets, amd stupidity shouldn’t be rewarded with change.

If they absolutely want to have their dps whoring party without a shield tank to safely catch the lock-on, if they run in fact desperately against the turret instead of killing the Torb who builds them - let them have it. I find it hilarious to see them rushing a turret and start beating on it while having rivets and scrap shot into their face, and when they think they almost got it down, it’s suddenly sitting at 800 HP and shreds them.

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It isn’t just for that reason. I think - and most actually good Torbjörn players like desRow or Fuey500 - that the turret is objectivly weak. It has a high health pool compared to most heroes, but it has a very big hitbox, it is immobile, and it’s damage is questionable. The main problem is how in lower ranks the auto lock-on helps bad players to get results, and in the same elos it punishes uncoordinated teams, while in the higher elos it doesn’t give the edge to the Torbjörn because it is too easy to deal with it.

And I was only talking about a level 2 turret, but the big issue is the level 1 of course. Namely that this game already punishes you for not having high mobility. What do you think happens to a hero who needs to stay immobile to unlock his full potential? Five swings are already very unforgiving, not to mention you need to heal your turret first. It also gets destroyed by a single small splash shot when it is placed and if Torbjörn dies while it is building up it suicides. That is just not good design.

Just remove RMB
Full health turret on deployment
More voice lines
More voice lines

Why would you want more voice lines? BINGO! BINGO! BINGO! BINGO!

Okay, but for real, why remove RMB?

Dat voice cracks me up, a good timed use of voice lines is priceless!
It just doesn’t feel right one-shotting a Tracer

…Yes it does :joy:

You are implying the changes are due to people not able to overcome the turrets, this is not Blizzard’s issue, it’s that above a level he is impossible to use and be effective and thus is not picked. His changes have little to do with inability of skilled players to negate his kit.

if this the new torb ive just seen on ptr i want my money back he got nothing of worth to counter nothing now you cant even lay a turret the spot you want it either go halfway down the street or too short you dont want that in the middle of a game so anything you was trying to do will never work if you cant tell where your turret will land to put it in a good position of fire