Blizzard get it together! We want answers. (GeForce Now)

Hi everyone! This is a long one, so buckle up (disclaimer: all of this is my opinion, alleged etc., keep that in mind :slight_smile: )

Background information: GeForce Now is a cloud streaming service that allows players to access a gaming computer over the internet and basically stream the footage of your gameplay to your screen. Key point: You already have to own the games you want to play. Meaning: The publisher of the games gets all of the money they would normally get from you playing their games on your own PC. They don’t lose any money. Since the service went public, in February I believe, you (the player) had the option to pay 5 bucks a month for GeForce Now for unlimited gaming time compared with the one hour of gaming time. The same week the service went public, Activision/Blizzard pulled their catalogue from GeForce Now.

So what are my issues?

  • Special quarantine point: A LOT of people are in quarantine and would love to play the games they love (and you know….paid for). As you can see from Geforce Now selling out their memberships there’s a huge demand for their service. So if you do not care about your players being able to play your games, at least think about it from a business standpoint and think about the money you lose (and no I’m not talking about taking money from Geforce Now here, I’m taking about the money you would make from ingame purchases).

  • Pulling their games from GeForce Now prevents a lot of players (including me) from playing games they have already paid for. And some players paid for those games under the impression they would be able to play it on GeForce Now. Which is the only way they can play FPS games on their hardware for a lot of players.
    And before you go “you shouldn’t have assumed that Blizzard would just allow you to play their games on GeForce Now”: You were able to play OW on GeForce Now for 3 years, while you had to pay nothing to use GeForce Now, so Blizzard wouldn’t have any money to “claim”. So concluding that you would be able to play a game on GeForce Now, when you were able to do so for three years, seems reasonable.
    Addition to this point: I am also aware that you buy a license to play the game and don’t buy the actual game nowadays, I’m also aware about the EULA which specifically states that cloud streaming services have to be authorize. Which GFN was for the beta and it went perfectly. This also can’t be the problem then.
    Additional additional point: The senior vice president of partnerships (whatever that means) of Ubisoft publicly stated that they will continue to support GeForce Now because, direct quote: “If someone has already bought one of our games on the PC, they should be able to play them wherever they like.” COULD. NOT. AGREE. MORE. UBISOFT.

  • Should publishers be able to dictate what hardware we are allowed to use to play our games on? The way I see it the game runs on the hardware of GeForce Now and I stream it back to my computer. What’s the difference between that and running it on my PC and streaming it over to my screen via a cable? The fact that it’s not a hardware based but an internet based connection between a PC and my screen? Fine: Then what’s with all-of the players that stream their gameplay on twitch? or the overwatch league that is played on physical PCs somewhere in the world and streamed via YouTube to the screens of thousands of fans? The only real difference I see here is that the publisher wants these things to happen, because it makes them money. How far are we willing to let this go? Would we be fine with it if publishers suddenly said: Hey guys! From now on you are only allowed to play our games on “insert name of computer manufacturer here” PCs! I’d assume people wouldn’t be okay with that.

Blizzard can you give us any answers or informations on the following points:

  • Do you have a licensing agreement with Google (Stadia)? You switched the Overwatch League over to YouTube (A google company) and you pulled your games from a cloud based streaming service that is the main competitor of Google Stadia. You actually make money from GeForce Now, there is no way you don’t know this. People with bad hardware bought your games (and with a very high likelihood would continue to do so) because they were able to play them on GeForce Now. And not only that, they don’t just make the one time purchase of buying the game(in the case of OW), they usually spend money in-game as well. All of which, you lose. So why would a company not want to make money from selling their games and from in game purchases? Doesn’t make any sense to me. EXCEPT you have an agreement with another cloud based gaming company that would not only give you the money from the above mentioned players for the one time purchase (which in the case of google Stadia is often times higher than the price of the same game bought directly from the publisher AND you’re not able to play it anywhere outside of Stadia) and the in game purchases, but would also give you the money of people who previously played on other streaming services and now would have to buy your game again (because again: you have to buy stadia games on stadia and can only play them on stadia). Sooo… you already moved your overwatch league exclusively to a google company and by doing the same thing with cloud based gaming you would presumably make even more money. As you probably already got from a lot of articles and YouTube videos: Players are not happy about that.
    Additional points about Stadia: If you have read or watched any of the reviews of google stadia you should know that the reviews are bad. Like, really, really, really bad. Especially the ones that directly compared GFN to Stadia. GFN: You buy your games as your normally would and just play them using GFN (one app that you can easily download). Stadia: You have to use Chrome (first strike, because google’s data policy is horrendous in my opinion), you have to buy a controller (which obviously makes sense because why wouldn’t I buy a controller for games I want to play on my keyboard and with a mouse…sarcasm) and use the controller to play your games, you have to buy the games you want to play from the google stadia store (which often times cost more money than from the publisher), you are NOT able to ever play the games you bought anywhere else other than on stadia (AGAIN: on GFN you just buy your games as you always would and access them as you normally would). Why? Please explain to me how that makes sense from a consumer standpoint?
    BUT here’s the thing: I LOVE OVERWATCH SO MUCH that I would go through all of this and get Stadia and play it on there BUT it is only available in 14 countries, mine not being one of them. Which is just great. Really exceptional business model and very inclusive. There are literally more nationalities in overwatch than countries you can use Stadia in. Enough said.

Another extra quarantine point: As you can see from Geforce Now selling out their memberships and literally no one caring about Google Stadia, maybe consider what your customers want?

  • Do you really care about money this much? I would understand the above reasoning from a business standpoint, but if you in fact don’t already have an agreement with google Stadia in place I would be truly shocked about you as a company alienating your players because you want a cut of GeForce Now’s subscription fee. If you really want a part of GeForce Now’s earnings for letting us use their PCs to play OUR GAMES WE ALREADY PAID FOR, do you also contact all of the other gaming PC manufacturers out there and inform them that you want a percentage of their selling price as soon as one of the owners installs one of your games on their hardware? And please be aware that I specifically wrote “gaming PC manufacturers” here. I did this because I would assume you (=Blizzard) would argue that GeForce Now makes money because people want to play your games on their service, ergo you bring them costumers, ergo you want a cut of what they make. Well. I would assume 99% of people buy a gaming PC over a much cheaper “non-gaming” PC in order to…you know…play games. So they buy a gaming PC because they want to play your games, ergo you bring the gaming PC manufacturers costumers, ergo you should get a percentage of that right? Maybe I’m wrong but I’m fairly certain you don’t get a cut off the gaming PC manufacturers income.

  • Do you care about your player base at all anymore? In a human way besides seeing us as money trees. When I take a look back at the last years I am not only worried that you as a company completely lost touch with your customers (Battle for Azeroth was not well received at all, you got booed at your own convention (filled with fans of your games) when you introduced the new Diablo, the whole hearthstone hong-kong debacle, you had to refund Warcraft), but I am worried about your ethics as well. When I first started playing WoW in 2006 and fell in love with your company, I truly felt you cared about your player base and wanted to deliver the best content you could, because you were passionate about it. Over the last few years, the feeling I got from most of your decisions is that you only care about money, which makes me sad. This opinion of mine is supported by interviews of ex-employees of yours who stated they left the company for the above stated reasons. But then Overwatch came around and I got that same feeling of people really loving what they do and want to provide us with great content (love you daddy Jeff). However, when I look at the move you (as a company, not the overwatch team) pulled with GeForce Now I feel that disappointment again. I would love to be wrong and get an answer or even an explanation to any of my points.

  • Going back to the point from “my issues” and quoting the representative of Ubisoft: “If someone has already bought one of our games on the PC, they should be able to play them wherever they like.” I have no idea who makes more money, but Ubisoft and you (Activision/Blizz) are HUGE gaming companies. So why is it that Ubisoft is able to support their player base and you are not?

I am always happy to learn and grow. If you have a different opinion/view or more information on any of the points I made, I’d be glad to hear them

Also: Please take care of yourselfs and others out there, keep your distance to other people, avoid group gatherings (if you live in a country where you can still do that side eye Netherlands what are you doing side eye), cough into your elbow and wash your hands :slight_smile:

44 Likes

Please I want to play Warzone MAX graphics… wtf, we want old blizzard back.

10 Likes

I am old school player. All my gaming life there was this feeling that I cant get enough power from my comp. So I stopped playing games for about 10 years ago. I am family guy, I work hard. I don’t always have time for gaming or money for gaming rigg. But I kept in touch with gaming by reading and watching yt gameplays.
Then I stumbled upon geforce Now. I got inside beta, tested a few games on my 2012 iMac. I am not saying everything was perfekt but it was really good. Some latency until I ordered 100mbit line. The best gaming video performance in my life.
But this was just a biggining. I found Overwatch. 1986, a Konami fighting game, dont remember the name, just loaded from tape on my commodore 64. I was there, and Overwatch is everything I imagined games would become. I was blowen away, and it brought me back to gaming. I played every day, made ow friends, bought the game to my nephew. Anticipated ow2. And then you pulled out. End of story.

10 Likes

In case of some genres (like first person shooters) input latency is very important and guaranteed to be better with a local desktop PC.

4 Likes

Totally on spot. Hopefully more people complain, because Nvidia GFN is an amazing service, and we should have the right to play the games we have already purchased.

12 Likes

There is extra latency with gfn. Just as there is playing on “internet” compered to playing over the lan. I am connecting to nordic europé server and it works fine. Playing successfully many of heroes in ow is not that dependent on latency. Some latency comes with age my friends :blush:

4 Likes

I would assume pretty much everyone who plays an FPS game is aware of that. However, that does not mean that everyone who wants to play an FPS game is able to afford hardware that allows for decent stats while you play your games. And people who are able to afford good hardware would have no need to play over GFN. Also: The statement “input latency is guaranteed to be better with a local desktop PC” is just plain wrong. Again: Definitely true for people who have decent hardware, definitely wrong for people who have bad hardware.
But maybe I am missing the point of the comment.

3 Likes

Following this, hopefully a blue reply sometime soon.

/sad cloud gamer

4 Likes

I don’t get it, overwatch is so highly optimised I used to play it on my potato of a laptop…

literally an old AMD A class Mixed Cpu and Gpu…

why do you need to stream it?

2 Likes

I have 12 fps on the lowest possible settings on my desktop PC. And that’s on a good day. And no, my internet isn’t the problem. I would play it on my laptop, but that’s a MacBook.

2 Likes

fair shrugs idk why my crappy potato played it so well

Guys, dont troll the thread. This is not about latency. It’s about the fact we bought the games and can’t play them.

7 Likes

ask for a refund maybe?.. if you bought the game with the express intent of playing it through Geforce now, and are unable to play it at all because its been removed from that service and you don’t have the required minimum spec device to play through no fault of your own… idk… talk to blizz customer support…

talking about it on the forum especially the EU forum is unlikely to resolve your issue

1 Like

BTW, I’m not against the cloud solution. It wouldn’t hurt me in any way but there are technical problems with it. Blizzard might have other issues too (related or unrelated to the technical problems).

Today every decent first person shooter has client-side prediction (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Client-side_prediction) that does an awesome job at hiding and smoothing out a lot of the network latency. My average OW latency is 25ms that is unnoticeable. I start feeling the latency at 50ms and it’s still very playable at 100ms (for example when I connect to a different region). The client-side prediction does a really good job. As a comparison, at 60FPS a game has less than 16.6 milliseconds to do everything needed to process and render one frame (and I prefer playing at 144FPS that means less than 7ms per frame but that’s another story).

A cloud provider would put latency between that magical “client-side prediction” and the player. My guess is that the experience would become significantly worse with every extra millisecond in case of a fast paced game. Anyone who played quake 1 over network with and without client-side prediction?

Considering the average quality of the network connection of all OW players and the hardware requirements of OW: you’d have to have a very bad PC to lose against a cloud solution when it comes to input latency. I can imagine various issues even if you have a very good connection with high bandwidth and only 5-10ms latency.

The only thing I can imagine as a pro on the cloud solution’s side is good graphics quality for the money. Most FPS players don’t care much about shiny graphics and OW (like most Blizzard games) actually looks surprisingly good even at lower settings. TBH, I’m really curious how OW plays on one such cloud provider but I have doubts.

Well said. I also feel like this is going to cost Blizzard a lot of money which ultimately does decline the experience of the game and support. I feel like Blizzard is out of touch. Like having to show your 70 year old uncle the ropes on his iPhone out of touch and this is concerning. Let me explain. I’ve been a players since Beta 2004 (back when the servers didn’t have names … just time zones). I played from Vanilla, ran a guild of about 150 members player: Illuvitar, server: Doomhammer, Guild: Tel Mithrim … we were at the opening of MC writing the book on strats while in tier zero… we made it all the way to Naxx. Played to the Sunwell in BC, Arena’d hardcore in WOTLK and Panderia … finally my time was done… approaching mid 30’s (age) I have two kids … a wife… a business… two dogs and just don’t have time to keep up with the tech race of a computer… the software … the hardware … support … all of it. Insert Geforce Now… what a concept… an instance where up to date software is stored on up to date hardware where you can access a game license that you payed for remotely on a computer you (rent). This all has zero to do with blizz (as stated above) … Anyway, this gave me hope… and it excited me for my kids and anyone I wanted to get into the game again. I purchased four MacBook airs that met the minimum requirements and purchased four more game licenses … I called my brother who is 10 years younger and doesn’t even have a gaming PC on his desk and encouraged him to load up the app on his slim machine. I called my nephew, introduced him to the game and helped him setup on his old iMac 2011. I called my old guild mates who had tables now (no longer the clunky gaming appliances from the 2000s) and encouraged them to get on… all the while evangelizing that they can now play the game instantly with no prep and no worries and no cost. Seriously! … I probably got 20 blizzard users to activate their game licenses again! That’s money blizz… and here’s the most exciting part. For the first time a newer generation was experiencing WoW through geforce now (my kids and younger family)… we all know that the younger generation is entirely cell phones and tablet based … no interest in even having a clunky computer appliance at all. The average generation Z will never own a desktop computer or possibly even a laptop. Tablets and mobile phones are the future!!! If blizz wants to align itself with the future of gaming and a new generation it cannot function like your 70 year old uncle at a family reunion that doesn’t understand this “cloud gaming in an old cracklings voice”… blizz! You are a tech company … you are a pioneer … we shouldn’t have to explain this to you… this brought you a new generation… new users … old users (that don’t want to keep up with the rat race). Honestly, I was shocked with the news that you pulled the games from GFN… it was shocking to have to explain it to all the people I referred. What was the result … the shut down all their licenses, immediately because they don’t have a machine to play and Blizz lost MONEY!!! The investment we made on MacBook airs … lost… GFN was simple, convenient, and most of all completely legal!! Get with the times… don’t be clunky like those old desktop machines that are caked with dust … support your players … you wouldn’t regulate this if it were an Internet cafe … don’t isolate yourself from your base and most importantly the new blood and future of gaming! We love this game and we want it to stay current and new. Blizz if you can’t understand that please consider the thousands I’ve paid you over the years … multiply that times the hundreds of thousands of users just like me … and then the hundreds of thousands of users that could be referred in a similar fashion to the ones I referred (New generation) and you are losing major bucks … Yes, that does concern me!

Sincerely,

  • A hardcore fan!!!
6 Likes

pls blizzard I just want to play overwatch with my friends again uwu

4 Likes

Honestly, I liken this to Napster or Kazaa before the publishing company really understood that it was absolutely inevitable for music and video to go to the cloud… the artists like Tool and Metallica tried to stand in front of the train of progress and got run over. Look at the way the industry has gone now and look how foolish those bands look. Blizz the difference is that we actually still have to purchase your license … you lose nothing! You gain players. Please wrap your mind around this concept!

4 Likes

Since 2016, I was hyped by OW, my only gaming device was the Wii U, not a problem, I was watching video. Now, I have a my old daddy Mac from 2012, all those rumors was givin’ me some hope. But no, thank u twitch and YouTube. A friend tell me about geforce Now, I had access to the BETA. Another friend gave me his account, I was going to enjoy soooo much! And I had really bad internet… This month, we changed our internet subscribtion. OW was deleted… :sob:

4 Likes

Please blizzard, just go back on GFN. I promise if you do that i’ll buy Call of duty modern warfare, that i can’t play for now because of my s*itty computer, and spend a ton of money on battle passes. Please, just go back on Geforce now and let us play your games. :’(

6 Likes