Experimental Moira Changes

This is coming from a pretty angry top 500 Moira OTP (4 accounts currently in T500, all Moira mains) who’s hero already struggles to find value in the higher ranks of Overwatch.

Firstly, I’m not against change. I also like to believe I’m reasonably impartial when it comes to changes to all heroes, but I’m sure there will be a little bit of bias to take into account.

I was one of the few Moira’s to argue against the original fade experimental, not because it I thought it was overpowered, but because of how in reality the skill will be used. Fade is Moira’s escape ability. She has to live in the ability danger zone, where all sorts of stuns, splash damage and displacements reside. It will be pretty rare that a Moira player can effectively use this ability to save other players when she herself is constantly in danger due to her ability ranges.

So when will it be used? Well the answer is, maybe 5% of the time it will be used to deliberately save a player, the other 95% of the time will occur when she just so happens to be fading to escape an ability… lands next to a team mate, just as a Widow headshot or hog hook hits them. It will be highly frustrating for other players to play against this seemingly RNG based damage block.

Simply put, you should not tie an escape ability to have this sort of additional effect, at least not at the end of the ability. It just feels like bad design.

Anyway, there’s bigger issues in this experimental patch to talk about.

The Biotic Grasp change is fine. It will barely have any effect, I can’t see anyone complaining about that nerf, but it is a straight up nerf let’s be clear.

The damage orb changes are possibly the worst experimental change I’ve ever experienced. Here’s why.

Firstly, players are often frustrated by abilities with no counter-play. People hate Ashe’s dynamite burn effect for example. Now Moira’s orb will have this same effect. Once it’s stuck on you, that’s it. Currently you can walk away from the orb to try and minimise the damage output, or you can use a number of abilities to escape. Not any more. Frustrating to play against.

Now it will certainly happen less often, but that brings me to another point in how the ability is used.

Damage orbs are used for a few key purposes in the game.

  1. Zone control - They can be used to deny clean access to an enclosed area.
  2. Armour stripping - Being able to pass through shields allows Moira to soften up an attacking force, often taking away some of their dreaded armour. This provides the team with a utility that other supports lack, and with Moira’s lack of actual utility, this is pretty important!
  3. Assassination - Many argue that a support shouldn’t be an effective DPS, but Moira is not a normal support. List out all the other support’s utility, Moira simply has none, and yet this is actually fine, because Moira’s utility is damage output. The hero has been build around the whole ‘one hand give one hand take’ / ‘Light and Dark’ / ‘Heal and Damage’. Moira is played as a burst AoE healer, but the most effective Moira players should be finding a fine balance between damage output and healing output, in order to get the greatest value from her kit.

So talking about value, let’s compare the healing orb and the damage orb.
Currently, the healing orb is generally the preferred option. This is because often you and your team control how much value you orb gives. Your team want to follow it to get healed. The damage orb value however, is controlled by the enemy team. They want to extract as little value as possible out of the orb.

These changes do actually change this structure a little. Sure the enemy still can avoid a damage orb, but once it hits, they cannot reduce the value of the orb further. The biggest point however, it in most cases, it would actually be crazy to fire a damage orb with these experimental changes because of the risk of an absolute zero damage orb being thrown out, compared to a very reliable high value heal orb being thrown out.

If you miss the damage orb, you extract zero value out of the skill. There is no area denial, there is no partial value. It’s now all or nothing. Although, this is also reduced further, as hitting a 1 HP target with the orb, will now only produce 1 HP of damage value. The only circumstances the orb will have value in combat, are before a fight (when there is no healing to do), or when used in combination with a crowd control ability, such as Graviton Surge. The first example’s value is tainted because unnecessary damage on enemy players provides enemy supports with ultimate charge. The second one would result in a buff to the damage output of the orb, providing it hits a target that can hold onto the orb for the duration of it’s output, and if it is not blocked by a barrier.

Compared to a heal orb, which you can utilise as a zonal heal tool, with smart bounce play, damage orbs will nearly always be a bad choice of orb. So this results in Moira being a burst healer with no utility. If your team needs burst healing, just pick Baptiste, get the same sort of heal output but with far superior utility.

Orb bouncing is a skill that the best Moira players have greatly refined. I could show countless videos of intentional bounced damage and healing orbs that are designed to extract the maximum value from the orb. I do get it though… there’s a number of times when the orb will bounce off at a weird angle and just so happen to tag onto a passing player, resulting in a frustrating experience. But the longer an orb travels and as the number of bounces increase, this becomes more and more unlikely to happen, and much easier for a player to avoid.

I could actually add even more regarding the orb changes, but I really need to move onto the fade changes here.

COOLDOWN! from 6 - 8 seconds.
Myself and any other Moira in the game would rather have fade on a 6 second cooldown, than have fade on an 8 second cooldown with this phase effect. As mentioned earlier, Moira lives in the ability danger zone. If this area becomes too dangerous for Moira then another healer is simply a better choice. While fade is on cooldown, Moira often has to take a highly passive approach to the game.

Moira’s key strength lies with her ability to be an aggressive healer. In fact, she actually needs to play aggressive to maintain her healing resources. Her entire balance in Overwatch relies on the ability to be aggressive, and to live in the danger zone and the only thing that allows Moira to accomplish this is having a short cooldown escape ability. Remove that, and you’re better off picking a healer than can play away from that zone, or at least provide some strong utility for their team.

‘No longer frees Moira or allies from Zarya’s Graviton Surge or Sigma’s Gravitic Flux’. - This is exactly the same as above. Why play a melee healer who will get caught in these abilities when you could just play a healer with more utility who can sit outside of the effective range of them? You need to think why a player might actually choose Moira as a healer, and this nerf simply does not allow Moira to function effectively enough in her role to justify her as a viable pick, regardless of ranking.

Also… Gravitic Flux jumping can result in some highly flashy and fun plays and allow Moira to reposition for either aggressive or recovery play. I guess this is the change that kills a lot of the fun for Moira players then…

Also, running from spawn back to your team takes quite a bit longer with fade on a high cooldown. A further hidden nerf.

So what would I like to see?

Well… firstly let me say that I understand that one of the fundamental problems the developers face in hero design, is the number of ability keys available to a hero. You can’t just suddenly add an additional ability, and a lot of work went into the original set of abilities that often, they can’t just all be completely replaced. Secondly, I understand how each hero functions are different skill levels in the game. Balance is not static across all skill levels. Certain DPS are stronger at higher ranks than others, because they are harder to get maximum value from their kit.

I believe my suggestion could balance Moira’s damage and healing abilities in regards in the lower ranks, where more powerful healers (but higher skill cap ones) get less value because a player’s ability is less than in the higher ranks. At the same time, I believe my suggestion could reward players who master certain elements of the hero, bringing Moira in line with the strong support choices in the top levels of Overwatch… all of this without needing an additional key binding. I will not be too specific with my suggestion, because I believe the game developers will know far better than I on how to fine tune this concept.

So here it is.

Fade - Untouched.
Biotic Grasp - Attach angle reduced by 37% (just to stop people moaning).
Coalescence - Untouched.

Now here’s where things get interesting…

Moira has a healing resource meter. I would like to see a damage resource meter.
Damage would build the healing meter, and healing would build the damage meter.
When Moira’s healing resource is at 0, she will slowly regenerate healing (same as it is now).
When Moira’s damage resource is at 0, her biotic grasp will deal 50% of it’s original damage output, and will not provide her with any self healing. It will slowly regenerate naturally like the healing resource bar.

Now this isn’t all of it, but let’s address what this accomplishes first.

There are a number of complaints with Moira being used as a DPS player with no intention of healing their team. This addresses that as it provides an incentive for Moira to heal in order to deal more damage. A Moira used exclusively as a DPS will be incredibly weak.

Secondly, if Moira is too passive with her healing or doesn’t manager her resources correctly, she will not be able to sustain her high rate of heals (like now). This gives an incentive to use Moira’s complete kit. You can’t just play her as an easy healer and you can’t play her as a DPS. To get the most out of the hero, you need to find the correct balance. One hand gives, one hand takes.

So this addresses the DPS Moira issue that many people have a problem with.

Now, the next part of this, is the buffs. When a player manages these resource meters correctly, an additional effect is granted to their next Healing / Damage orb. There’s several ways to do this. Either you can have a joint resource meter, that can shift too far to the healing side, or too far to the damage size, but when it is perfectly in the middle, her next orb is granted additional properties. OR, you can have two separate meters, when the healing meter is full, you get granted additional properties on your next damage orb, and when the damage meter is full, you get granted additional properties on your next healing orb.

Either way, perfect resource management will result in hero buffs, while bad resource management will result in hero nerfs. This is where her skill cap comes into play. Not every hero needs to be about being able to aim really well. You can be skilful with mobility, with aim, or… with resource management.

So what would these additional properties be?

Well, the first one would be a cleansing orb. A bit like the original experimental fade effect, it would remove crowd control / debuff effects from team mates. This solves a big problem in the game with Ana’s grenade strength. Finally a hero would be able to counter this ability, providing they have managed their resources perfectly. This would be applied to the healing orb.

As for the damage orb… well, here’s where my ideas are a little short. Possibly an orb that does additional damage to barriers only, whenever it passes through them. Sort of like, a static shock effect. It wouldn’t increase Moira’s hero damage output, but would help with shield breaking. Beyond that idea, I’m not really sure what to apply here, but I’m sure the developers could come up with something different if my idea wasn’t strong enough. Just not a damn stun, slow, or ability interrupt skill! This particular suggestion would have helped with double shield meta, but I see we’ve already killed that :P.

So how does this address hero balance across ranks?
Well, you could go one step further with the meters… and scale the damage and healing output of her left and right clicks depending on how well she manages her resources. This could means that Moira would only get a buff when she hits that sweet spot of resource management, but is actually nerfed when she’s outside of it. Good players will focus heavily on resource management while also making conscious decisions as to when they sacrifice the additional orb effects in order to provide greater basic resource output. Lower ranked players will almost certainly be less efficient at keeping her resources in this sweet spot, or may focus too hard on doing so, resulting in worse in game performance.

An idea like this provides Moira with the much needed skill cap to allow her to be balanced correctly across all rankings, while not just requiring perfect aim to do so. It keeps the core principles of her kit and lore intact, requires no additional key bindings, and other than a slight UI redesign and possibly some particle effects on her orbs, doesn’t require much work to actually implement. It also removes the DPS only Moira option perfectly and encourages life in the danger zone, with a nice element of aggression that makes Moira both appealing, and different from other supports in the game. Fade remains intact and healthy, fade jumps are still viable etc…

Lastly, the bounces remain intact. Yes that can be frustrating for players, but with additional properties on her next orb, Moira will be less likely to spam orbs out on cooldown, and more likely to hold the more valuable orb until the time is right to apply the additional effects. Less orbs out on the map = less frustrations… so we can keep our skill bounces!

7 Likes

I’m not the biggest fan of your Moira rework idea (I personally like her kit as-is), but your explanation of why these particular Experimental changes are bad for Moira are spot-on. I’m all for giving Moira utility, but it really should be tied to something else besides Fade.

Where the first Experimental gave Moira cleanse + team invulnerability and this one shirked the effect that most wanted in favor of the one that most didn’t, let’s return to that idea of making Moira the game’s cleanse healer. I’m still a huge fan of your idea of giving her an AoE cleanse effect for her team at the cost of 50-60% of her resources and has its own cooldown. I was speculating earlier on how to implement this and was thinking it could work similarly to Brigitte’s Shield Bash: if Moira is holding down primary fire healing, a quick press of her secondary fire while doing so would activate the cleanse, much like Brig shield bashes by pressing primary fire while holding secondary fire (her shield). This way, it wouldn’t get in the way of Moira’s animation cancels or other little tricks (like pressing E to fire a damage orb if Moira is already dealing grasp damage, etc.).

2 Likes

Moira player here too and i also do not like the changes applied. As Op says the fade is more of an escape and repositioning tool so im pretty sure none of us will use it as a utility tool especially now that we can’t escape Zarya or Sigma ult.

The Damage orb is sadly an open door to more DPS Moira again as OP stated it is going to be as frustrating than Ashe’s dynamite

i sincerely hope those changes will not make it to the Live game

Biotic Grasp - Attach angle reduced by 37% (just to stop people moaning).

This would not stop people moaning, it’s just giving in to whiners who think she has magic lock-on.

I would like to see a damage resource meter.

No hero has a limited amount of damage. Moira is constantly attacked for being able to deal damage as though every other support can’t do the same thing…

There are a number of complaints with Moira being used as a DPS player with no intention of healing their team.

People who deliberately choose to do this cannot be made to stop by nerfing the character, all that does is make the character worse for everyone. FYI that’s the goal of all these “experiments”, the OW team wants to destroy her but they aren’t sure how.

if Moira is too passive with her healing or doesn’t manager her resources correctly, she will not be able to sustain her high rate of heals

That’s already what her healing resource is for.

the first one would be a cleansing orb

There is already an ability like this, it’s Zarya’s bubble. The game doesn’t need another one no matter what people say. Avoid CC in the first place rather than letting it hit you and then trying to get rid of it.

Finally a hero would be able to counter this ability

You counter it by getting out of the way.

an orb that does additional damage to barriers only

First of all shields are insanely weak in the current patch, we don’t need any more shield break. Second of all putting it on a support is the dumbest idea…

double shield meta, but I see we’ve already killed that :P.

No we haven’t, we’ve just ruined Sigma and Orisa.

skill cap

If you talk about “skill” I’m taking away your Moira privileges…

cleanse healer

We don’t actually need that, though. Moira does not have utility, that’s by design. Cleanse should not be added to the game beyond Zarya’s bubble, it would make that hero a must-pick which would necessarily cause nerfs to other parts of their kit. Moira was fine as she was, none of these changes are necessary and are clearly just there to destroy her.

The damage orb doing high(ish) damage but requiring skill and timing to land is a very good idea.

Remember Zen can pretty much one shot squishies if he skillfully lands a full right click volley. So it is not like she’d be any different in theory.

Ana is basically a must pick because of the debuff. Over 50% of the top 500 support players have Ana as their most played hero. In comparison, under 10 players have Moira as their most played hero. This tells you the power of this ability and why a cleanse ability specifically for this is an important issue to address.

Zarya’s bubble does not cut it. You can cleanse a single target on your team and yourself. The nade is AoE and has become an almost essential part of any combo in the game.

As for the rest of your points. You didn’t read about the damage meter properly. Moira wouldn’t have limited damage, she would have reduced power damage when the meter is empty. I’m already like Moira the way she is and would be happy with no changes, but clearly there are issues which the development team are trying to address, which is why I propose this solution over their one.

Yes, people who do DPS Moira can be stopped by nerfing the character’s ability to DPS. You don’t see very many Ana players running into the backline or only shooting the enemy team, this is because it is ineffective to do so. People play this way with Moira because it is actual viable to do so. My proposed changes address this issue. If it is less viable, less people will do it.

And yes, with healing resources, I described the current situation.

As for skill cap, I assume I’m talking to a 4300+ SR player right?

2 Likes

This tells you the power of this ability and why a cleanse ability specifically for this is an important issue to address.

Ana being a good support doesn’t mean we need another ability which deletes hers from the game.

You can cleanse a single target on your team and yourself.

You don’t see how pressing one button to remove all effects from your entire team would make a dozen or more characters worthless? You’re meant to AVOID getting hit, do people not understand that?

You didn’t read about the damage meter properly. Moira wouldn’t have limited damage, she would have reduced power damage when the meter is empty.

She already has the weakest damage in the game, any weaker and it would be worthless.

clearly there are issues which the development team are trying to address

Ok so this isn’t actually true. They’re not addressing any real issues, they’re doing what they’ve been doing for years: making tanks and supports less enjoyable based on DPS whining.

You don’t see very many Ana players running into the backline or only shooting the enemy team

Maybe you don’t but dps supports are pretty evenly distributed in my experience. And I really don’t care if people choose to do that, it’s not my business to tell them how to play the game if they’re having fun. They’ll end up in bronze if they do it in comp.

As for skill cap, I assume I’m talking to a 4300+ SR player right?

So there are now two problems:

  1. You claim that certain heroes are “less skilful” than others, which is just nonsense.

  2. You apparently think your rank is some indicator of this “skill”.

It’s not about deterring her to be played, it’s about having counter-play to one of the most powerful abilities in the game. An ability that can completely disable all healing for a team on a 10s cooldown is extremely powerful. Having the ability to cleanse this ability would also be powerful. The ability I proposed would have a significantly more difficult requirement than Ana’s nade, in that Moira would need to keep her resources in the perfect area just to even gain access to this ability.

This balances the powerful debuff with the powerful cleanse, because Ana has to aim and time her ability to get maximum value, while Moira would need to manage her resources correctly to get maximum value. This may mean that Moira actively chooses not to heal or damage for a few seconds in order to maintain access to a cleanse orb. The team would often suffer from this trade-off.

My guess is that you do not appreciate the value of Ana’s nade in this game. At the top ranks, getting naded means almost certain death every single time because players correctly react to this huge debuff.

As for the weakest damage in the game and it being worthless if weaker… yes, that is the idea. Moira has easy to use damage output, which is why it is balanced by being weaker. If you gave Moira high DPS, that is easy to use, she would be incredibly overpowered because it’s not difficult to output her maximum damage output constantly. This is not the same for say, Hanzo, who has very high DPS capability, but to achieve consistent maximum damage output, you would need to hit all of your shots, which is very difficult. Making Moira’s damage output weaker when she runs out of resources forces Moira to play how the hero has been designed… a mixture of damage and healing. This is exactly the same way that healing already works. Moira has incredibly strong healing (potentially the highest in the game when you consider AoE and healing over time aspects). What limits the hero from just constantly holding down left click is her resources. She gets forced to deal damage in order to sustain her high healing power. My proposal does the same for damage… she would be forced to heal in order to sustain her reliable damage output. Bad Moira players either heal too much and run out of resources, or damage too much and run out of resources. Good Moira players would play her with a perfect mixture of both, maximising her kit’s potential.

Obviously Blizzard are not just trying to make people unhappy. There are fundamental issues being addressed. I do not know why I am even continuing to engage with you after a comment like that.

You say that DPS supports will end up in Bronze, and yet I know of two full time DPS Moira players with over 4500 SR peaks. One of my accounts is one of them. I know of zero Ana players who have achieved 4500 SR by playing full time DPS. Yes it’s not anyone’s business to say how a player should play the game, but there is obviously a desirable approach to how a support should function, and full DPS is not one of them. A mixture of DPS and Healing is the desirable solution for Moira and the damage meter punishes players who focus too much on only one aspect of her kit.

I don’t claim that certain heroes are less skillful than others… it is a known fact that certain abilities, weapons and movement skills are easier than others. To deny this would be like saying all types of ball can be equally thrown the same distance by the same person… it just simply isn’t true. What I’m addressing is that when a hero takes more skill to obtain maximum value from their kit, their kit can be allowed to be more powerful than a hero that can easily obtain maximum value from their kit. This is called game balance. Some heroes scale better across different rankings because there is good balance between value and difficulty to obtain that value. Other heroes do not scale well because the skill cap of the hero cannot allow any more power without an increase in difficulty obtaining this power. Moira is a perfect example of this.

Her kit contains a lot of easy to obtain value and therefore can’t be made too powerful. By adding an additional skill cap (good resource management), her kit can be allowed more power when used correctly, which can also decrease her power when used incorrectly. This results in a nerf in the lower ranks (where Moira is strong) and a buff in the higher ranks (where Moira is weak). I believe this to be the goal of the development team with this hero as they have stated such several times.

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Ana has to aim

Every ability has to be aimed.

My guess is that you do not appreciate the value of Ana’s nade in this game.

My guess is that you haven’t learned to use the “get out of the way” move and probably think Hanzo has the most powerful ult in the game.

At the top ranks, getting naded means almost certain death

At top ranks every mistake means certain death, are you actually suggesting that we patch out the skill of the game for the sake of “skill”?

Moira has easy to use damage output, which is why it is balanced by being weaker.

Zarya has a functionally identical weapon with more than twice the power.

Obviously Blizzard are not just trying to make people unhappy.

I have never been as naive as you are being at this moment.

You say that DPS supports will end up in Bronze, and yet I know of two full time DPS Moira players with over 4500 SR peaks.

So… in other words there was no problem with them playing that way, but you think that they should be punished anyway?

it is a known fact that certain abilities, weapons and movement skills are easier than others.

Not known, stated with no further argument. There is no reason to think this or to keep repeating it.