Hatred in the community: The Aim-Debate

General Discussion
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First of all it is important to know that every hero needs gamesense, positioning and overall experience. There is a insecure legend that non-aim heroes needs the enumerated skills more than aim-heroes. This is a cheap lie and I am curious who came up with this?

I am not saying that aiming is the most difficult skill to master but it is still something you have to master when you want to climb the ranks with aim-heroes.

Aim heroes need everything that non-aim heroes need plus aim. This makes them more difficult to play. „The aiming Skill is a complex cognitive ability.

As it calls for us to unite our visual and motoric skills, allowing for the hand to be guided by the visual stimulation. Good Eye-hand coordination is a skill that can you help winning duels more often“

The term „Skillshot“ is there for a reason.

Overwatch is an official fps and with the release of ashe Blizz showed us that they didnt forget it. There is nothing wrong in non-aim heroes when they are low risk/low reward but when aim heroes are high risk/low reward and non-aim heroes are low risk/high reward then there seems something wrong. OW should be no league of legends or smite. Many people play this game because of the fps aspect.

There is hatred in between the community where people who mostly play aim-heroes sh1t talks people who main heroes like mercy etc. Stop it. This doesnt help. At the same time the people who main no-aim heroes sh1t talks people who main aim-heroes. They say something like:“aiming is so ez just click head“ or „aim no brain“

Guys wtf we are a community! We dont have to love each other but we also dont have to hate each other!

2 reasons why aim is considered skill.

  1. Aim is an inconsistent skill. You can not perfect it. You have to practise every day to become a top aimer. Even with god aim you can be outplayed by good movement.

2.There is more then tracking and flicking. A good crosshairplacement is important and anticipating the enemy hero is also very important, because ow is fast paced compared to other shooters (cs:go)

Aim heroes are healthy for competitve games. Nothing is more boring to watch than a non-aim hero comp like death ball for example (my opinion and the opinion from my friends)

Please continue releasing heroes like ashe (hitscan,projectile etc)

Aim duels are exciting. A good player like EFFECT is so fun to watch. Look at his aim and his overall gamesense. Cool player.

For the haters:

You have to understand that playing games like cs:go is no solution. There is no other game outthere like Overwatch. So the disrespecting comments like: „Omg then play cs:go“ dont help much.

Good aim fascinates everyone. Its like to see a footballplayer/basketplayer doing some awesome tricks.

Many players play ow for the fps aspect please respect that.(Sorry for the repitition)

Edit: I would like to see more heroes like Ana, Mccree, Hanzo, Widowmaker, Ashe etc. I really dont like the far forgiving kits from Moira and Brigitte. Even Mercy is not that forgiving to play ( In the past she was but not anymore in my opinion at least!)

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I hope Blizzard will release a hitscan/projectile support like Ana again.
btw. For a Tank Hammond also has a really cool design.

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Lol with skill you mean just aim in the general direction of a char since they have a hitbox of a whale??

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@Buddieehh-2646

you are a perfect example of a toxic person who probably can not even hit a whale. haha :smiley:
I am a mercy main and I agree with this post. :slight_smile:

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Everyone knows that, its just that people who enjoy the no aim/skill heroes need to constantly hyperbolise on thet that fact to make themself feel good in the end.

If you ask me there’s something morally wrong with the current top 10 heroes for GM(By win and pick rate), non of them take any aiming. And come on this is marketed as an FPS game. At what point will you make it so non of the heroes that need to aim with hitscan are the best once…

Like at the moment the bottom two heroes in GM are Bastion & Mccree… Widowmaker is at the 11 spot yet people actually complain about her and ashe is to new to get some real facts about her. Who even is soldier 76 atm? Havn’t seen him be a thing since Beta. Ana is the only aiming hero thats in the top 10 atm and even she has it easy healing her team(doing something other than trying to land a hit and kill an enemy).

True that, but then you have the people who actually don’t like getting outskilled when the other guy aims better. For me Facing off vs GM Widowmains is the thing i live for. So much presure, every inch and flick matters in that 1 v 1 and when i win it just makes it that more worth it.

And then you have people like me who actually enjoy the game getting harder etc taking a lot of time to get the muscle memory needed for flipping and etc.
Aim heroes have a lot of ways to aproach the given problem at hand. Where heroes like Brig, Moira, Mercy, Rine, that are just made to do 1-3 things and they are made to be really good at this thing and never fail…

Just tell them to go play splatoon ohh what they have torb ult for that…

Non the less i enjoy advancing my muscle memory and reflexes more so then drooling on aimless heroes pretending that they are the only one who use game awarness and saying that aiming is just “click heads LOL”… Yet looking at the stats the no aim hero seem to be killing it for the 10th season. And when i say no aim i do mean heroes who aren’t hit scan.

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“Just Aim” hahahahaha
The irony with your profile picture…

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This is very true. A balanced approach and understanding the different forms of skill expressions in the game is the only valid way. Aiming is a skill, but there are others. I like to fit them into three main categories, that being aiming, ability usage and movement.

This is not entirely true. Every hero has different challenges associated with it. Mercy has a lot of challenges in regards to her movement that other heroes don’t have. Things like Mercy having to make use of 3D space and utilising her sling shot ability. Mercy also has limitations, such as her having a limited range on her healing beam, meaning that she has to keep within a closer radius of allies that she needs to protect. This means that she’ll often be in more precarious situations more often than an Ana who can keep distance.

Anyway, I’m starting to list the variables, which in some ways is a silly thing to attempt since there are so many variables that I’d need all day to type this out. :yum:

Basically, making the statement that every heroes movement kit requires equal amount of skill expression simply isn’t true. Maybe if you think about it hard you’ll understand and accept that you’re wrong there, but I know that’s a big expectation since no one ever likes to admit they might be wrong on something.

I have lots of respect for aim heroes. I in fact, love aim heroes and those who play them. I love heroes like Ashe and Mcree and I want to support them and score big kills by damage boosting and healing them. I’ve never insulted someone for playing an aim hero, I just point out that Mercy has plenty of unique challenges in her kit too.

You’re saying both sides need to not attack the other, and I agree entirely. But, from my experience, it’s often the “aim” crowd who will look down upon Mercys, because they’re unwilling to see what’s involved in playing her. Indeed, if Mercy was so easy then we’d all be in GM. :yum:

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So true and so sad.

haha :smiley:

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Thing is blizzard whant this game to be causal.

And when someone keeps losing because he can’t out aim the opponen it really can feel hopeless for them, but at that point i don’t know why’d they buy an FPS game in the 1st place(This was shown whne Widow was Meta at season 9, peope hated to lose games when they get out aim’d… yet that’s the main thing for a FPS game)… non the less blizzard care more for them, If you are good at aiming you’ll be fine, but the people who aren’t will be stuck at bronze, problem is they are at GM atm.

They even added the hidden profiles since people like me “raged” at the fact that a Mercy/Brigitte only player randomly decides to play something like Mccree and Widow in gm.

I really believe that Supports, DPS & tanks needs to have there separated rank’s(and role que, since if you que for a support and you are a 4k support you will get match with a 4k team on that same account if you que for DPS but your dps rank is lets say 3k you will join a 3k game, ATM i have to use at 3 accounts since i do paly every element in this game since when i join a match i want people to instantly know what i play, what i want to play atm, and what my rank on that thing is) since for me a support/tank one trick will never be as “skilled” as a DPS hit scan player one trick, Since if you are good at Hit scan you can prity much flex/fill every other role and play every other hero in this game and play really close to someone who mains such hero. Since like you said.

In the end its a safer bet for me to let a Widow one trick play Brigitte then to let a Brigitte one trick play Widow.

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I mean the best example is Mccree. He has hardly any movement.
My opinion that aim heroes are more difficult to play than non-aim heroes doesnt change but I 100% understand you that you have to master the kit and have to develop a feeling for mercys flying ( when you fly without cover you get rekt ) I am a good example. I play mostly Ana and dps hitscan. When I play Mercy I play maximum plat^^ ( I am low-mid master 3680sr )
I mean there are heroes who are easier than other sand this is nothing to be ashamed of. Even in games like sc2 and wc3 is always a race who is easier than others. Easier sounds so disrespecting but it shouldnt be. sorry for my bad english even in my native language I have problems to express myself.

I mean they changed . When the game came out there were no ranked no server browser and no esport. But yeah it is still relatively casual :slight_smile:

100% true.

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They have openly stated that recently.
“The ranked game mode is for people to relax & chill after work”

But for me Comp mode cannot be a “Path to pro” and also be a “Way to relax” .

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I love how all the “aim is the most important thing” people barely have any time on healers or tanks and when they do, they suck. Noone says that there’s a difference in game sense etc needed between “aim” and “non-aim”, but there’s a clear and obvious difference in game sense between tanks/healers and DPS.

As a long-time support and now tank main, I can easily swap to DPS and comfortably perform well, because all the skills transfer and aiming just a bit worse than others doesn’t mean much if you can stay alive much longer. Yet 80% of DPS players are completely incapable of performing at any level at all as, say, Mercy. I suck as Mercy as well, don’t get me wrong, because her way of staying alive and putting out healing is very different to Zen’s, Ana’s or Lucio’s, but at least in contrast to so many people I know what most heroes require to be effective because I’ve played enough MH to be able to play them.

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Which aim hero needs the same assortment of skills that let’s them max out Zaryas charge by her 3rd bubble and have her ult ready for every team battle? Which one has the same specific set of skills that Hammond requires to be effective? Does Widowmaker aiming from the 2nd capture point onto the first one for shots require the same set of skills as a Mercy diving in behind a crazy Reinhard and using all the GA tech to survive and keep him alive? If what you said was true then all the heroes that require aim can pick up any tank or support hero. Idk why but I doubt that. Some heroes require less aim but more game sense, they require more resource management and specific tech to utilize their unique mobility that others can’t. Aim heroes do require something more than aim but it’s the DPs players that came up with the no aim no brain argument so it’s a bit too late to cry now

Also, you can’t cry that there is no other game like Overwatch and then whine about everything that makes overwatch different from CS:go which are the tanks, turrets and healers.

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The game has tons of variables for each hero, and it’s all balanced to varying degrees, giving some advantages here and taking some advantages there. The out shot is a game that’s designed to make people feel like they’re highly skillful, when in reality they’re mostly just taking advantage of various elements in their kit or play style that grant them an advantage in particular situations. Smart people know this as we can see through the tricks in the system and identify the challenges and advantages in each hero.

To list all of these would be an almost endless task.

When people make broad statements like Mercy takes no skill, it’s because they don’t understand the game, plain and simple. :yum: Their minds glaze over and they are only capable of identifying skill expression in very simplistic terms. In other words, “This hero requires aiming… This hero does not.”

Orisa for example has to gauge the speed of her projectiles against the distance of her enemy, which is a very skilful thing to do. However, Orisa is also often a stationary unit behind a barrier, so that makes her aiming procedure easier than say a Genji who is aiming his projectiles whilst on the move most of the time. But, then a Genji has double jump and lacks a barrier… And yes, there’s plenty more variables to consider, it goes on and on and on…

You see where this is going? There’s countless variables involved in every kit. This is why this sort of debate goes nowhere.

However, all that aside, a thrust of this thread seems to be implying that Mercy mains are insulting aiming based hero players, which I’ve seen no evidence of.

Mhmhm… :thinking:

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Even forgetting the tank/healers vs DPs argument. Even withing the DPs category Genji is the most technically demanding hero and his aiming for him probably comes in last place given how his mobility, melee, dash and ult require no aim but give genji to a McCree main and see what happens. I am sure they’ll be able to play him just as well since aim heroes need everything non aim heroes need + aim right?

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Pick Mercy, duel a random “pro-dps”, kill him : enjoy :>
That my most fun thing to do in OW where most of ppl think Mercy don’t need aim.
Nothing better to duel a widow, mc cree, tracer and so on as Mercy <3

@OP : why ppl need to justify their “skill” in so much thread like that ? OW give you so many way to play, Aim is just one of them, ppl should stop with their inferiority-complex and just enjoy the game.

Getting kill is always frustrating for some ppl, aim or not, it’s just another excuse to justifie their lose.

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I’ve told you like 100 times, i think Mercy is ok nothing oppressive(ATM) but nothing to skill demanding.

Problem is that she’s not the only low skill hero in this game, she’s just the most obvious pick when it comes to it…

Yet everyone in GM will tell you just that. So why can a GM Mercy not be able to flex on lets say a Genji but a Genji can flex on a Mercy main.

You might have 1000000h on Mercy but her skill ceiling is what’s the problem. Its capped and she might not take as much skill as other heroes but shes a hero that limits the skill you can take from her. Where as something like Genjis & Widows skill ceiling isnt capped at all, The better you play the better the hero preforms. Mercy limits her self and she needs to do that just because her skill cap is low same for Brigitte. This hero exele and doing 1 to 3 jobs and doing them perfectly and with little to no room for failure. Now when it comes to Genji you litterary have to Predict/momorise the distance you need to flick for you to do a ghost dash and you need to be doing that in the mids on a teamfight.
Ghost dashing scealse the faster you can do it, but you need to know for much to flick without looking at anything since your hero sight is locked in an animation(dashing locks you from looking around in it animation) hence the part that you need ro predict 2 thinks where the opp is and how much you need to flick. There are so little nuances to mastering some of this games hero that its just absurde then yet thy are hero that just dont have that as an option since they are overstated (Tanks) and powercreeped (supports) and yes powercreep have been proven to be a thing in this game.

IF you think that this is skill, oh boy…
Making predictions baset on RNG(from the other player) is easy and you can be lucky with that. Ghost dash is literary you knowing exacly where you will aim without looking at the game. Its based on mussle memort and the instict that you will get a killing blow with that dash.

Just look at this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GI4Dm6t9zc That genji did 3 dashes (all landing without him even having vision thanks to the dash animation lock) in the spand of a 1 seccond and he did a mid dash animation slash… This is what GM needs to be, just insane level of skill that most people will even miss seen it since it happens so fast. This is pure and raw skill where even a split second matters. This is something 99% of the players cant even do vs bots.

Now what is your Mercy exclusive thing thats so exclusive and hard to master?
Pressing space at the end of your dash? Having the IQ to save your dash for when you might need it? Not resurrecting when you might get killed? Spining when you start to cast resurrect?

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Well, you´re in gold, you haven´t achieved a rank, where it is not possible to flex a big roster of heroes anymore. The top of players High GM - Top 500. Specialize in heroes or skill sets. I play for a team as a Hitscan main, so i only play hitscan DPS and Hanzo. At a certain point people outskill others so badly, that you need people who specialize to keep up. I mean at the these ranks that i play, i would say that outside of my hitscan dps. I might be able to GM Ana, Zarya and possible some 1 or 2 more in the tank/Healer category, but in general i do not have the play time to play the heroes against people who main them at that level.

Also a very wrong assumption, game sense is knowing peak angles, sightlines, maps, character interactions, what to look out for and not, what to stand in and stay away from and such.

What you are describing is people unable to play heroes, cause they lack the fundamental play time and experience with the heroes. This is not an issue of people lacking the game sense to do so.

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Well, this is something I can agree with you on, which is why I’ve been calling for a rework to allow for more skill expression in her kit, because she does indeed meet a cap on what she can do and that’s due to a flaw in her design.

I think she has plenty of skill expression in her mobility, but the output of mobility is her own survival and surviving only gets you so far as a support. A Mercy can survive for an entire battle by utilising great mobility, but if she simply can’t output enough healing to keep her allies alive, well… she fails anyway. Other healers can regulate healing output, which is a form of skill expression that Mercy should have too, especially considering that she doesn’t have the aiming element. I think they should add in more skill expression into her ability usage to account for this.

I actually don’t think they’re willing to do this, so I’m kinda just asking for them to make a new hero at this point. :yum:

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If you can’t statisticly out heal someonce damage your are not the problem.
When you heal a player, what the player you are healing is doing matters more then you healing him.

TBH if they are going to do such a major rework for Mercy they might as well add a new hero to the game. Since Mercy needs a lot of changes if her cap is going to increase by a significant amount.

And the reason i will never respect a heroes like Brig etc is because once they are good you are forced to play them. Since they are just power hauses. And thats why people like me bash on this heroes…