Just floating thoughts

Played since Beta and more recently off and on. No means do I think think that I’m a pro, but I hold opinions from playing after so long. This post is just some opinions after playing more again and a culmination of thoughts shared by roughly 8-10 people I play off and on with, with periods of playing that now have breaks here and there, feel free to disagree or ignore, w.e.

Going from 6 v 6 to 5 v 5 is a terrible idea. Playing with a core group of friends routinely, knowing full well that two of my friends who both main tanks and enjoy playing those role primarily. That we are going to lose one is pointless and result in us not playing as much and a loss in team function with the now lost synergy and knowing we will have to exclude a friend completely when full.

Secondly this game, along with the lazy catering to DPS with a minimalist scale back of damage creep after overclocking the role as a response to double shield meta is poor. Having 1 tank that will likely be more dps than tank like Hammond or Roadhog will further exacerbate the frustration of healers. You can already experience the reduced skill cap and now less needed team work for ults like high noon or the reduced delay before D.va’s mech ult that have made it easier guarantee kills in comparison to older states of the game where the grace periods were higher and were overcome through communication and coordination.

Buffing shield tanks and healers, having ults require more coordinate to succeed would allow other roles to become more rewarding again and increase player counts, I see many complain of the DPS queue times while the games direction has done nothing by seem to cater to Dive and DPS tanks while leaving shield tanks in the dust. Watching friends play Orisa and just express dismay after experiencing their measly 600 shield become melted by dps who’s output is grossly imbalanced and has remained the same. Seeing McCree having 25 more hp than a support/tank hybrid is a joke. The death of overshield from Sym, armor from Torb and the changes in armor for Brigitte only worsen this.

You can likely argue its the intent of blizzard to make the game faster paced or more lazily a shooter than can feel closer to competitor titles but it takes away the joy of the those hero’s and makes playing them feel as throw picks and outright miserable and is why the que times are increasingly longer even with the introduction of role que from a once completely open pick system and more recently, the priority passes in a half-baked attempt to bribe the community in roles they won’t actually address and fix to become more appealing.

Another issue is the absence of the lack of stalemates, in past you would experience what I consider “draws” in exchanges between heros and opponents where they could counter another and stave off actions. Examples could be a sleep dart from Ana to a Genji and a Genji deflecting to prevent the hit, or a Doom fist doing a rocketpunch and a reaper ghosting to avoid contact. In past both players would expend cooldowns and would allow both sides to regroup and or get another crack at attempts, with once again, the use of communication and team work being the means to overcome this if possible and the expenditure of a deflect would allow the window to succeed for another.

Now its non DPS roles just outright losing consistently in these exchanges with DPS getting away with what would otherwise be punished or left with a mutual tie in interactions. Once again making support roles miserable.

For arguments I sometimes read or hear for making the game more instant kill, reduced TTK, solo ults that now team wipe easier and less delays in earning wins through the toppling of wet paper bag shield tanks. Why? There are countless titles where everyone is a dps first and with perks that support mildly second. There was a more emphasized distinction in OW as a FPS with roles, even more especially when heros like Hanzo, Bastion, Torb were considered defense and not lumped into DPS category. It is nice that heros becoming more viable in offensive roles is nice, the mobility creep also takes away any interplayer dependency that was part of the teamwork that made this game in its infancy.

In my subjective opinion, the current state of the game is terrible as the vulnerabilities of certain characters have been altered if not outright removed, and so has their identity. Seeing healers being easily high nooned/mech wiped from unreactable ults, further heightened by routine tank picks that compose of Roadhog and Hammond are while the state of the game is worse off.

Moving Hammond, Zen, reworking some and rebuffing those whose main role and identity are more traditional in the lines of tanks and healers would help solve this issue and drought in the community and the current lack of enthusiasm and is seem through wait times being so disproportionate.

OW is the only game where someone like me who barely plays DPS can just hop to Junkrat and without any real skill ceiling, mindless melt and destroy enemy tanks and score kills by accident and flip a match to a victory with what feels like unearned kills. I feel he is poorly designed and overdue for reworks from his jarring state that has existed for literal years. I can run a controlled detonated ult after my character dies that can outlast counters that have times that are a fraction of my duration. Similar ults like Sigmas will end if he is killed yet his won’t if you find him and kill the player, imagine if Lucio’s break it down would go off if he was sniped mid air after he died and his team received it still? Old Torb’s molten core would end when he was defeated, other heros who channel and control actions are shut down but his remains.

In recollection of Sigma’s release, his initial state was like seeing a tank receive the equivalent buff creeps seen in the DPS category. To be able to actually handle several kind of ults temporarily felt like they were going to just make every class/hero over-powered, but then they took away blocking roadhogs hook and made his mainly self sustaining defensive tools (like Orisa’s gold skin) stronger, while reducing his benefits to his allies and supports in the process. Like hammond, any protection past the now frail shield has gone to completely self centered playing and the rest now suffer more as a result from the lack of protection with a state of easier ult and dmg outputs.

For the casual player base, it honestly feels like they’re trying to kill their own game and I don’t think I’ve felt as little enthusiasm for OW in all my years in respect to balancing, community stance, and directional intent from the dev’s. Ana will lose some ammo then get it back later as a “buff” while dps will get a partial nerf in one overbuffed aspect, and then additional given a buff in health or some other variance and it’s baffling why people have a surprised pikachu face when people are hating playing non-dps roles more and more.

Also can they do something about the smurf rampancy, and role throwing for priority tickets. Literally playing with a DPS moira who was clearly playing a healer to farm tickets while not healing and tossing dmg orbs. The tickets don’t address the underlying issues that they band aid and the community doesn’t even try in the other roles while farming them and others suffer defeats and wasted queued match times as a result.

If you’ve read this random mess of on the fly thought and opinions, thank you for your time.

P.S. It destroys and breaks my heart what happened to the poor employee’s and the woman who took her own life during this current lawsuit towards blizzard. Even if they unscrewed this mess I honestly don’t want to support a company that has hidden such atrocities under the rug.

Imagine if true balance was ever achieved; somebody’s losing a paycheck. I believe they could have fixed all this crap long ago, but then the game “isn’t beind supported anymore.” Balance patches are just smoke and mirrors, imo.

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Maybe you haven’t been paying attention, but they’ve been making bad decisions for years at this point. They don’t care. Their goal is to sell OWL stuff, and OWL viewers don’t care about balance. They want to watch Genji and McCree wipe a team with their ults.

Here’s how the game works. DPS players are cool guys who get to have fun. The healer’s job is to refill the DPS’s health bar and get killed. The tank’s job is to charge the DPS’s ultimate and get killed. This goes back as far as the Mercy rework, but you can see it all through the Brig whining, the hate for Orisa and later Sigma, role queue, competitive hero bans, and so on. Blizzard does not want you to enjoy their game. Blizzard wants you to watch 9 hours of sweaty OWL streams and buy loot boxes.

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“true balance” isn’t a thing though, balance across all the heroes and roles is basically impossible. .

Patches are always just moving about numbers to keep things a little fresher and fix try change things up a little

Except it clearly isn’t impossible. TF2 is dead in the water and it’s somehow still well balanced between the 9 classes. Overwatch has actively ruined some characters on purpose with zero justification; they show absurd favouritism towards certain heroes, and they make all their decisions based on professional play instead of the actual game.

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Never played it. Is that 1 hero per class, or many heroes per class?

If it is 1 hero per class, then that is why balance is a lot easier. You just need to balance 9 people, then it doesn’t matter what combination you pick all is good.

Sadly OW is 32 heroes, 3 roles, a lot of maps. Too many variables to make it possible to balance. So as long as 1 hero, comp, ability doesn’t stand out like a sore thumb… then you can’t really do much more.

TF2 classes are all one “hero”, but each of them has a small variety of different weapons. For example the Sniper has various different rifles as well as a bow.

My point was that the balance is good: every class has something unique to contribute, and they’re all good in a particular circumstance. Regular games are 12v12, and while you might get 6 Spies on one team that’s generally not a good idea because they’d get countered by Pyro. What you pick depends on the map, the state of the game and the choices of the enemy team. It’s a lot more energetic, and the maps are designed so that fights take place in different locations, rather than everyone grouping up as a team and pushing through choke points.

I believe OW could quite easily be balanced even with 32 characters. Obviously not every character can be equally useful in all cases, but all of them should be able to have a niche. More importantly they should all be impactful and fun. The problem is that everything’s been nerfed, and whenever a hero is actually fun for a change people demand it be changed. Sym was good for like 2 weeks and she got completely reworked. Orisa was good for about a week and she’s never going to recover from how many nerfs she had.

The devs want Reinhardt, Zarya, Ashe and others like them to be the norm. If you want to play Roadhog they don’t like you. If you want to play Bastion they’ll rework the entire hero to make it unfun. Mercy isn’t allowed an impactful game-changing ultimate, but a dozen DPS heroes can. Then again these are the people who made Sombra a DPS so maybe they’re just trolling us.

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Yeah I get that. But logic immediately say that it is infinitely easier to “balance” as there are considerably less things to consider.

When OW went 222 it did make it slightly easier, as it took away a good chunk of the comp based variables.

I doubt balance is actually designed to force you on to certain heroes. That is just the way to cookie crumbles from patch to patch. Someone will always be top of the table, someone will always be bottom.

Orissa is still very good. That is part of the reason why a lot of the high level players are playing so much Apex right now lol.

Making people wait multiple minutes for a match in exchange for it being “easier” is insane. I’ve had platinum-ranked comp matches where I had to wait over an hour. That is not even close to acceptable.

Reinhardt has been a must pick since the game launched. That is not just a coincidence, it is by design. Orisa is not “still very good”, she’s a troll pick with a 0% pick rate.

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Rein isn’t a must pick right now. And hasn’t been for a while.

I’d suggest watching good games to see what’s what with tanks. Use noobs in gold will play rein zarya a lot because it is simple to do the basics. Even then people just insta lock Hog in most games.

But higher up, it is all orissa sigma, double bubble or occasionally ball dva.

Thanks to sigma being banned, its pretty much all winston dva in OWL. As sigma hard enables orissa.

222 was actually to make things more even in comps. It being slightly easier to make balance changes was just a side bonus.

I do agree with Rein being top pick. I mean he’s a very strong tank when played right. Orisa is actually quite good with someone that can aim. She’s more of a defending tank overall, but I don’t see that many playing her though.

Orisa isn’t conceptually bad, but her shield is completely outmatched by Rein and her damage at range doesn’t compensate for it.

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That’s why she’s played with Sigma. That shield rotation makes Rein look a little limp.

Plus what’s he meant to do to them if he can’t even get close.

If all you are playing Rein for is the shield. Something has gone a little wrong.

Yeah pretty much. She can deal some hefty damage though.

i think orisa is pretty bad in comparison to most tanks, the thing that i think makes her have any value above other tanks is because of her ultimate, not because it’s that much better than other tanks but it makes it so that you can swap around compositions to a degree so that you can still get that extra damage increase at certain points in combination with other characters to reach a breaking point where one-shot kills etc.

but as far as the rest of her just feels very gimped, she can’t get away, she really can’t handle being close and her damage isn’t very lethal, like she can spit out a lot of damage but it doesn’t amount to much by itself because it usually just end up as spam damage that feeds the enemy supports ultimates and her barrier can’t handle any focus fire.

really if we have to go through the positives it would be that she can take a lot of damage through damage mitigation from her ability which also makes her unable to be cc’d.
she can potentially have a barrier to block an ultimate right out clean, she can
finish off-kills at a distance on low hp enemies, she can break damage thresholds with her ultimate.

but with that said, the other tanks just gets more bang for buck, they have easier and more spikey access to damage, more mobility, easier to use utility, more synergy with more characters.

as i see it orisa in of herself isn’t that good but she becomes atleast pretty viable with other characters which is kinda an issue when you think about how players play the game.
she just simply doesn’t measure up in a solo capacity to the degree of other tanks.

and her niché that isn’t all that good really that she is a long range tank doesn’t really work unless you want to break the game for her to be good.

I get that. But thats why the better players play her either Sigma and Bap. Add brig and not many comps can go toe to toe with them.

They can just play back, take map control.

You can’t really dive them, Rein will never get close enough to have an impact.

This is why double shield was, and is, such a drag for higher tank players. There very little room to play round it.

Then add something like playing Havana or Junkertown… those 4 with 2 snipers on dps. If you’re not mirroring them, good luck.

Now in lower ranks where we are, these concepts are mostly irrelevant as people will just either play what they want or ignore/not understand comp synergies all together.

Yes, you seen Rein Zarya a lot. But then the supports pick Ana Mercy. So at that point you’ve failed to build a comp. Rein without Lucio is like going in with one hand tied behind your back.

But that’s the fun of low level ranked. It’s more about slamming you head into a wall and hoping the enemy is playing dumber than you are.

You see alot of one sided games because teams have lucked into a comp that synergises, and then plays the basics.

i’m not really speaking to higher ranks where synergy matters and it just becomes meta hell.
you will have a really rough time climbing as a tank if you pick orisa up til the meta stages and then that kinda overrides most things in terms of atleast tank/support synergy.

up til meta stages of ranked where it actually matters, it’s really gonna be a rough ride going with either sigma or orisa, why? kill potential and ease of impact overrules synergy because synergy really don’t work that well in lower brackets.

but the crazy thing is also that you could be killing 4 enemies as hog and your whole team is instantly killed by 1 riptire after you’ve died and that happens way too often to actually make any match really meaningful at the lower bracket.

and then when you start to get up to around plat it’s mostly good effective tank picks/dps carry because you can’t undo your teams mistake of playing recklessly making it more of a coin toss there in that regard, as a tank in plat you have to cover the dps butt and try to cover their many mistakes and hope they out perform the enemy dps.

and once you break into diamond you’re in limbo where plat dps start to fall off (unless insanely good) and synergy starts to matter and this is where the dps start to file away their mistakes in terms of accidentally getting killed by very easy preventable causes and the tank/support picks start to come into effect and starts to become a little bit more synergy dependent but right after is the meta train.

sure you can go off-meta but you will be playing up-hill at masters and above.

none of these feel that good to a tank or a support.

but to a dps it starts off as a kill frenzy and then requiring some skills to get to the point to beat other dps up til about diamond low masters and then they will blame that tanks/supports are OP, but they are just meta slaves and maybe if the dps can push through that nonsense it’s just gonna be basically a grind for them to get to 500 at that point.

so really dps is gonna be a fun experience up til about low masters and then they fall into the pit of the other roles but they can overcome it by sheer skill, not really something you can say about tanks or supports at that point, but for tanks and support where they actually get some fun out of the experience is maybe in the meta hell because teamwork does become paramount to realise the team synergy for the meta to actually work, but as stated before metas tend to be rather straight forward and easy and predictable so might still be boring but at that point you’re atleast playing with other people.

but who are you playing with? most likely not someone positive.

also you will have a lot of frustrated dps in the killing frenzy part around bronze to gold that are a bit incapable of climbing simply because they are very inconsistent that will also add their negativity there.

like most people are gonna be negative for one reason or another unless they are embracing the fact that they are playing a power fantasy game and loving playing that character above and really not care that much about winning or losing, they might want to improve like everybody does but ultimately those who are only putting in the effort will see themselves climb ranks.

and so those who probably still like the game and are still positive are those few who don’t care about what rank they are in, atleast they get to play their favourite character.

that’s kinda how i think it is.

a bit tired so not sure if everything lines up right, but i think that’s the gist of it.

I get that, and being where I am, I just play what I feel like and go from there, because all you need to do in gold to win is out play the enemy.

But if you know what synergies and what is more efficient, when things get a little sticky you know what’s best to run with.

I always find people tend to get negative in a match when it isn’t working (obviously). Usually it is going badly becasue the comp your tram is running ticks 1 or more of…

  • doesn’t synergies
  • inefficient for the map
  • doesn’t match up well again enemy comp.

But instead of looking at it logically and changing people just shout for others to swap.

If I play support I always wait for tanks to pick. If the go Rein, I go lucio. If they pick Orissa I go bap. If they go dive I pick Ana or Brig, usually brig as the other support will have beaten me to ana lol.

The one i can never understand is the players who wait to see what is picked and then still go Hog. Makes me laugh that.

As a curiosity, I plan to play a bunch of dps games. I’m going to take not of what tanks roll out of spawn. I suspect Hog will be the most common as most people selecting to play tank aren’t “tank players” and think he’s a good shout.

hog is an absolute unit up till basically plat, then the dps will dunk on you and you might aswell play your role and protect the dps so that the other team dies faster than yours.

yes people will get mad because of synergies and all that jazz, but they will do so pretty much pointlessly up til high diamond low masters.

i really do think if you’re playing support you can play either mercy or brig up til about gold with relative ease, then it’s just play not to die up till meta basically.

but that’s just assuming you’re trying to rank up with less issues, if you’re actually aquiring actual skills as a solo player as a tank or support you will climb no matter what you play, just at different speeds up til about meta.

so really i think what people really need to do is chill and take wins and losses as they come and not overthink things regarding team stuff basically ever in overwatch.

i mean i think it’s you who i’ve talked about this about outplaying the counter pick and if they pick a lot of counterpicks to kill you you’ve done a lot for your team allready.

meaning personal skill>team/synergy up til meta.

100% agree. You can punish people with Hog.

Problem is, people think because it worked it was a good idea. Without actually reviewing what happened. And that is why Hog struggles a little higher.

But people will just plat what they feel is best. Just got to roll with it and hope things fall into place. If they don’t, ggs and go again.

If I get a Hog and a Mercy on my team and the game doesn’t go to plan, I tend to just avoid them for a bit.