because as if the hero isn’t already garbage…
really trying to bring back the dive/dragonblade meta aren’t we blizzard?..
you realize you’re going to lose more players than you will gain back for OW2 with this hilarious clown fiesta right?..
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Supports are not allowed to be good, it upsets people.
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what upsets people more is not having supports x-D cause im not playing them anymore untill they get buffed
sorry but good healer heroes don’t bring smurfs to the game, gotta keep buffing dps until the game is dead… oh wait thats already happening
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See again, wrong my g. They nerfed brig because they need to. If you watch streamer games EVERY GM GAME is a brig must be. And she is still OP. And yes people wan’t dive meta because everyone is full of doubleshiled and stun meta. And lol again with the smurfs why is everyone still complaining about them , they can’t be fixed it’s in every fps competitive game and it will always be.
When players like me that have been here since beta , they see what was the best, when you had the best fun (ofc they wonna change , people don’t like current state, and wan’t the old one). New players don’t see that.
Totally removing the armor from heals without compensation is plain stupid.
They could have done so that the given armor couldn’t exceed X% of the target’s max HP and things would be ok.
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no…
i have been here since beta… what makes your opinion on whats “best for the game” more important than mine?.. get over yourself
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I’ve heard from high ranked players that Brig is almost a must pick there; her armor pack is really strong in dive.
But I agree that with the armor boost removed, Brig seems to serve no purpose and might be a throw pick if those changes are live.
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See, even if they hurt you those changes are for the greater good.
what happens in high rank effects the least amount of people… nerfing heros because whinging genji players dont get to play genji in high rank is pathetic…
no they are for the smaller good… the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few… not the other way around and the highest ranks are not the many…
also… this nerf completely obliterates your previous argument that brig is a genji counter… because half of what you told me to do with her to counter a genji no longer exists…
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Catering to the most biased bunch isn’t the greater good, it’s appeasing the whiny children while damaging the general picture.
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The interactions that the good players understand also concern us, even if we don’t really realize that. Particularly in this case, since what is strong about brig (according to most good players) is the way she affects her teammates, not how much damage she does or how much mobility she has (the kind of things low level player tend to think about, that are not really relevant when assessing who is the better hero.
Better economical results for blizzard, better investments, better appearance for blizzard. Even if there are more individual players who think like you, the change has still positive effects
Yes, if the nerf goes through, brig will no longer be a hard counter, but I (as well as many other players) think that those changes are good. That is because they make it so that brig needs timing (she has to heal targets when they get attacked, not before, creating much stricter time windows to execute), game sens (was already needed), positioning (shield more punishable) and mechanics (now you HAVE to hit your skillshot if you wanna make something happen) to counter heroes that are considered hard by most people.
I will keep responding, explaining what is the reason why most players would deem as wrong what you say. This doesn’t mean that you have to agree with me, but it means you have to accept everybody’s experience (and not only yours) able to generate worthy opinions.
Also if you don’t wanna end up in the same “discussion” as last time, I’d recommend you let it go and leave me in my ignorance.
There are economical and practical advantages to what Blizz has done (other than actual balance purposes). If you don’t see them that isn’t really relevant. What matters is that right now blizzard has no choice but to appeal “whiny children” (the people that btw know and love your game more than anyone else), so yes, greater good.
thats fine, if your team is coordinated and working together, but it doesn’t happen bellow diamond… any cooperation between team mates in the majority of ranks is coincidental at best… and lucky at worst…
if you have no casual player base, you have no pro scene… and little interest in the esports of your game…
throwing your casual players under the bus for the few “pro” players who complain is not good business…
no… ive discussed this with you already…
and i will keep telling you no…
or you could stop repeating yourself… the answer remains the same… which is No…
Never said the motivations aren’t rilevant, I said that they aren’t for the greater good and rather a way to appease ppl that found out how to abuse the system ensuring that they get to play the game they want in spite of objective balance and the rest of the playerbase.
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I can totally see where you are coming from here, but particularly, in this case, these interactions are relevant to anyone. I insist because I used to think like you on this, but then I heard this pro player/content creator talking about brig, and I started paying attention to this in particular, and I noticed it so much from that moment on. I don’t know if it gonna work for you, but for me, it did a lot. Again, usually, you would be right saying that coordination is the difference-maker, but this time it really isn’t.
The two feed each other. What blizzard is doing is to approach the balance with a philosophy called “top-down”. The way it works is that it balances for top play, since historically the pro knowledge and strategies trickle down (simplified, of course) to lower levels. The reason why they are doing this is that nothing else has worked in the past and because historically top-down balancing works better.
You haven’t, by your own admission. You have stated, asserted and communicated. If you want to have a discussion that is my dream, but don’t give this point as addressed, because it isn’t.
The moment that everything you can say is no, I will stop telling you what is the common take on the subject.
Question: am I really repeating myself? The way I see it is that I am in the substance, but I’m always changing arguments and points to try to adapt to the way you think.
no…
doesn’t work… trickle down economics make the rich richer and keep the poor poor…
no…
i have adressed your points, you just don’t accept that i have…
i am doing it… you keep repeating the same thing
you may think that you are changing the argument and points, and on the surface it seems that way, but when everything is boiled down to the bone… this is what it is… you think genji is balanced and brig is a counter… (because thats what the pro’s say)
and i am telling you they are not, and the pro’s opinions don’t matter to us…
no matter how you word it, no matter what arguments you make, you can’t prove to me otherwise so the argument remains the same… hence why i am not interested in discussing it further…
I just offered you a perspective that I never mentioned before and all you say is no. Fair
This is not economics. I am well aware that rich get richer, but in this case it a completely different deal. That is because knowledge is not limited, while cash isn’t.
You say no, I explain why yes with logic and historical evidence. So clearly don’t want this to be a discussion.
You said you weren’t discussing, not me. Your responses to my point, as I previously stated, were partial and inconclusive. Again, I hope you didn’t get them (or I didn’t make them clear), because if you did you ability to debunk logical arguments is not suitable to a man of your age.
In this message you didn’t really
Yes, that is what I said. The substance is the same, but I’ve been trying to adapt my argumentations to what you said. (Btw I think what I think not only because pros said that. My personal experience - to a certain extent -, logical prove that I can relate to, historical reality and other types of evidence that I have listed maybe 40 times now.)
Really, in my experience, they are somewhat relatable in some cases. What I do is take the pro’s opinions and I try to apply then to my games. Then, I make my own opinion, trying to also think logically about the topic. I’m not a dummy who takes for gold what someone says.
I did prove you otherwise, you are just to attached to your experience to take the discussion and address my points. Only because I didn’t convince you, it doesn’t mean my points are not sensible, they are just not enough to convince an old man who is convinced that everybody’s game is different and his experience is worth as much (if not more) as historical, logical, mathematical, statistical evidence plus the experience of people who are better then he is at the game (better because they spent much more times playing, analyzing and discussing it). That was honestly a pretty hard goal to reach, and the fact I didn’t reach it is not enough to state that my arguments are poor.
its the same argument… “pro says this = must be correct”… its not…
it may not be, the principal is the same… “balancing for the top” is trickle down economics… and it doesn’t work… it makes the top better, the middle worse, and the poor destitute…
i told you that already…
again this is a matter of want, not cant… i don’t want to bother because you won’t agree with what i have to say, and i won’t agree with you… either way it is irrelevant
in this message, i am not discussing, i am shutting down your attempts to drag me back into a discussion regarding it…
if the discussion has not changed, then i am not interested in discussing it any further… i keep telling you this…
if your experience is different… good for you… as our experiences are different, how you solve the problem will not work for me… that is it… (having to repeat myself once again…)
good for you, what the pro’s say does not work… in my experience… hence they are irrelevant…
your points are sensible… they just don’t apply to me
my experience is worth as much as anyone elses, but it doesn’t change my experience… just because your experience is worth as much as mine does not make my game any better… that is the point i am trying to convey to you…
nothing matters… what you say, what the pro’s say, what blizzard says, what your experience says… the only thing that matters is how i experience the game… and in my experience genji is broken, brig is not a counter…
unless you can change my experience this is how it is… and no amount of talking about other peoples opinions will change that… so there is no point in doing so…
Explained later that’s not how I think
You have been relying on your experience this whole time, but what kind of experience do you have about this. I am a volunteer for a reason, I really believe in what yous say here, but your instinct is tricking you… Top-down balancing is a strategy that favours everyone. It makes for a more long-lasting game, and for a more stable experience for everyone. That is what history told us, and you instinct (not even your experience at this point) can’t deny that. You, in this case for the first time, really don’t know much about this topic. Please don’t listen to me directly. Read something, google a bit and think critically about this and you will make up your own mind, instead of mentioning blindly something that has nothing to do. Then, you’ll be able to respond to me.
You didn’t have to respond to that statement.
Since I am trying to convince you of something, which is really hard, it should be much easier for you to convince me that you cant be convinced. I’m only sorry because the reason why you are so fermely convinced of some the things is completely irrational.
ok. You are doing something really questionable, but at least you succeeding at it.
ok stop responding. I told you more then once that you can just like my post to end it all in a click. You keep responding with things I already debunked, I debunked it all again assuming you didn’t get it the first time. If you really understand my points, then respond directly to then, instead of keeping your strategy.
I explicitly stated that this is not the point of the conversation anymore. You don’t have to repeat yourself once again, you can read and try to understand my response to what you just said and respond to that instead.
Just to be clear, my points have the point of trying to get you to realize how narrow your prospective is. That’s it. I don’t care if you think Genji is broken, because your fundamental beliefs don’t even allow me to start a conversation about that.
MAIN POINT
ok, so good, but I’ll offer you a different ending. “[…] hence I accept the fact they might be right in theory even tho I find no practical application of what they say” The reason why I think you should accept they are right is that you should recognise that they have more experience than you, plus they analyze and talk about the game aa a job. That is my main point.
Ok, you were yet to say that, which makes a big difference to me
MAIN POINT
If you think your experience is worth as much as anyone else’s, try to follow me in this math moment.
UrExp (your experience) = xsExp (random guy’s experience)
UrExp < many people’s Exp
UrExp + Exp of some of the players in ur situation (with your same experience) < opinion of Many experts and not (with different opinions and experience) + theoretical evidence.
Do you see what I mean here. I only want you to accept that if all the brig plat players think A and many different kind of players think B, plus B is provable theoretically, then B is considerable the universally accepted reality.
OF COURSE this doesn’t affect your experience. That is fine, and that is not what I’m talking about either. I’m talking about theoretical and objective evaluation of a reality, not negating personal experience or changing it. Do you see what I mean?
yes. True
that’s not my goal.
Hope I was clear.