No tactic in this game should reap so much reward for so little risk. It absolutely ruins maps like Hanamura. Both Hero’s spend 90% of the time out of the range of 80% of the Heros but can effectively kill any Hero on the Roster.
It’s completely wrong that you require pinpoint (and I’m talking pinpoint to kill Mercy in 1 with Widow) accuracy to kill a Hero while they can just point and shoot in your general direction and get splash damage. Especially on console.
Anyone agree?
I don’t know it’s 2 players combo so you shouldn’t expect to shut them down alone. There are plenty of options zen + widow/hanzo/ mccree or soldier. Or you can play D. Va which is the only solo character which can consistently shut them down… Of course if you are not T500 widow ![:smiley:](https://d1kzxbyyijk9k6.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/smiley.png?v=6" ":smiley:")
or I forgot Ana which is pretty good for harassing pharmacy.
Also you can just ignore them for time being win ground battle and then pharmarcy is useless ![:slight_smile:](https://d1kzxbyyijk9k6.cloudfront.net/en/overwatch/images/emoji/twitter/slight_smile.png?v=6" ":slight_smile:")
I agree, its not fair that you require good aim to even try to fight a phara (not even thinking about pharmacy) but e.g. To counter tracer, you just need to bash.
Solution:
A : more hitscan heroes (especially long range)
B: give more heroes long range dmg
C: give pharmacy more weaknesses (not only god Widowmaker and high noon)
D: give phara dmg fall off (won’t happen)
E: less roket air time = less dmg (so she HAS to use distance, which makes it easier for hitscan (widow) to get her out of the sky.
I’m just thinking about the idea blizzard is following.
Best tracer in the world? Brig should be able to deal with her.
For widow, you still need descent aim. While brig really is just picked = tracer swap (as brig needs low awareness to kill you, but you have to be insane careful as tracer to win this battle.
Phara doesn’t have this issue with hitscan, while aiming at her, rocket one goes down. I shoot, and have to move, bc rocket nr. 2 is incoming, and will delete me. Ofc not against the pro hitscan masters.
Thoughts? I personally like option E and C (even though they might could be the same thing, as mercy would have to go loong distances with GA, which gives options to kill her somewhere between, and not in the middle of the team.
But yes as already got mentioned, pharmacy are 2, so fair would be discord + mccree/widow or mercy + hitscan, worst case, you could try and hack phara with sombra, and have e.g. Mccree waiting for phara on the ground. (mercy would GA to her team anyways. Unless you hacked her, and killed her)
But the best solution I’d recommend would be, ask your team who’s the best Widowmaker (or other hitscan hero) and be the mercy/support for them whenever they fight phara.
I usually go widow/mccree but often as soon as i start to fight with het, (rockets hitting me) my supporters seem to forget me. And often, the team complains then, why i’m not killing phara.
Should be easy to land 2-4 headshots vs not getting hit by 2-3 rocket splash dmg… It’s not (at least for me, platinum player)
Usually i swap of to tracer and let my failure team deal with it, and ignore her completely.
Let’s make a list out of this.
Heroes that can hit her or perform their roles outside her:
Ana, Bastion, D.va, Genji, Hanzo, Lucio, McCree, Mei, Mercy, Moira, Orisa, Soldier 76, Sombra, Torbjörn, Tracer, Widowmaker, Winston, Zenyatta
Heroes that can’t hit her or do so little damage it doesn’t matter or are just better off ignoring her:
Brigitte, Doomfist, Junkrat, Pharah, Reaper, Roadhog, Symmetra, Zarya
Emphasized heroes have exceptions for example a Torbjörn can do damage to Pharah but is hard-countered by Phamercy and for example a great Doomfist or Pharah can still harm a Pharah.
I understand criticism towards Pharah’s design but blatantly lying about it is just pure toxicity and hinders constructive conversation that is important to a game like this especially since the developers have their eyes on the forums. 0/5 topic
The problem is not Pharah, it’s the combo. Pharah by herself is fine: she trades verticality and way more movement options for a big, aerial hurtbox.
Mercy kissing her ass 24/7 tho it’s stupid and shoulnd’t be a thing, sorry. Either Mercy flies there, heals her and THEN has to go down and WAIT (I hear the cries, don’t worry, even I wouldn’t propose such idiocy) before flying to her again OR you make Pharah have to land after a bit, so people don’t have to be godlike at hitscan to counter the combo.
Cheese comps are a thing that works on certain maps (pirate ship cough), Pharmercy can work almost if not everywhere. It’s not a healthy combo for the game, and the “hyurr durr git gud hurr durr console” thing doesn’t work anymore since Pharmercy has seen play in the OWL too.
For me, the real issue is that Pharah / Mercy at the lower levels provides quite the advantage. The reason is, most DPS are just not very good. Hitting a Pharah alone requires 2 DPS to tag team her. Soldier isn’t really accurate, and miss a few bullets with Mcree, you have to reload. At high levels, I think it’s less of a problem, but Plat and down, I’ve seen this as a more serious issue.
I really don’t have much advice on how to fix that at lower levels, because in Diamond, it becomes much less of a problem. DVA players are good at preventing her attacks, mcree/soldier players are pretty accurate, along with Hanzo/widow.
Then again, most plat or lower DPS really shouldn’t be on DPS. But in the end, it’s a video game, and it’s about having fun.
I was in a game back when I was plat. A plat player was being told (he was soldier) to kill the Pharah, and he kept saying he can’t alone and that he needed help. A friend who typically plays DPS, played heals due to the soldier player not wanting to switch. The soldier player got mad and said angerly, "Think you can do better, then play solder, I’ll do heals). My friend switched and destroyed the Pharah every time she was in the air.
Basically, if you are hitscan or dual hitscan and you can’t kill her, switch roles to see if that helps.
ExpLic is correct. At higher levels if you pick Phamercy and your opponents counter you, you have to switch because your Pharah will get sniped or gunned down and be forced to play so safe that she’s not doing enough work to justify using the strat.
If Phamercy was a guaranteed win like people here claim, then I’d be GM. I am sure that it feels overpowred at lower levels but at higher ranks it is quite easily countered.
how hard is to actually paharamercy ?
How hard is counterin pharahmercy ?
Keep that in mind when you will decide the balance of a game.
Give. Her. A. Landing. Time. Like her old self.
We’ve seen the combo in higher end matches too and in the league, the argument is moot. Just because something it’s easily counterd in the higher levels doesn’t mean it should be allowed to pub-stomp.
Why people keep defending this combo goes beyond me really. Yeah you can counter the combo theoretically, but in practice it’s still unhealthy. People are not asking to kill both the character in the combo, but for an even ground.
Why are people against pharah having to touch the ground once in a while complain so much. She had to at release, and it wasn’t what made her “low tier” like some complain.
Give. Her. A. Landing. Time. Like her old self.
Preach it.
Well, it doesn’t really matter what you think because you’re obviously wrong as all the evidence says. Blizzard aren’t going to nerf the heroes because it’s not unbalanced at higher levels. If what you claim is true, then Phamercy would be a guaranteed win every match and all Mercy and Pharah players would be in GM, which they aren’t and it isn’t.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but your total disregard for the facts and claiming it’s all “moot” just gives me the impression that you’re just an upset player because you can’t deal with this.
I’m not defending this combo because it doesn’t have to be defended. I know Blizzard know that it’s not overpowered and they know that there are plenty of effective strategies against it. What I am doing is telling it how it is at my level of play whilst also acknowledging that things will be different at the lower levels. That’s the best you can hope to get whilst staying in the realms of facts, because let’s be very clear here, it’s you that’s come here to complain. You’re the one crying a stream of tears so it is very rich to then try and claim that it’s others doing the complaining.
If you want to sit in the corner and cry over this, claiming that Phamercy is an unstoppable combo, then go ahead but be aware that answering every counter argument with “moot point” followed by a bunch of stuff that just isn’t true, isn’t going to get you very far.
Consider yourself preached. 
Only Bastion, McCree and Soldier can efficiently kill them as easily as they can kill the whole Roster. The others mentioned require a very skillfull player to pull off, or are damn near impossible… A Lucio countering Pharmecy?? A Genji?
I wasn’t quite clear. Only 20% of the Hero roster can effectively counter them, and even then you need to a somewhat skilled McCree to take out a Mercy while Pharah is attacking you. Other Heros can counter them, but the level of skill required (Ana would require several body shots) is very high relative to the skill level needed to play Pharah and Mercy together.
That’s what I was getting at. It’s a very low risk, low skill, high reward tactic that requires a somewhat decent Soldier counter or a very skilled Mei to counter.
I wouldn’t say that is toxic.
There is currently an inderect nerf to Phara and Mercy combo going live right now on PTR where many hitscan heroes have had their damage fall off up from their measly 30% at range to 50% minimum damage at their furthest range. Giving them a huge damage buff against Phara.
Well, it doesn’t really matter what you think because you’re obviously wrong as all the evidence says
Please what evidence? People said “oh Pharamercy ain’t good, pros don’t play 'em”, not they do. If anything there’s evidence of the contrary.
then Phamercy would be a guaranteed win every match and all Mercy and Pharah players would be in GM, which they aren’t and it isn’t.
Oh my god, are you for real? Not every Pharah or Mercy has to be in GM. Like not every Genji, D.Va or Tracer was GM when Dive was THE meta.
Sorry if that sounds harsh but your total disregard for the facts and claiming it’s all “moot” just gives me the impression that you’re just an upset player because you can’t deal with this.
Lmao, here the salt starts to pour out. Nah, I have pretty solid Soldiers and Widows, so I can deal with it ok. Too bad I have to land all my shots, while Pharmercy can easily just spam since if I miss Mercy will just heal Pharah back to near full.
What I am doing is telling it how it is at my level of play whilst also acknowledging that things will be different at the lower levels.
“I’m better than you, even better than pros. I can deal with it so it’s fine, f-ck everything else”. Sh-t argument, move on. Balance it’s not based around you but a vastly major playerbase.
If you want to sit in the corner and cry over this, claiming that Phamercy is an unstoppable combo, then go ahead but be aware that answering every counter argument with “moot point” followed by a bunch of stuff that just isn’t true, isn’t going to get you very far.
This is what you understood.
Yeah you can counter the combo theoretically, but in practice it’s still unhealthy
This is what I wrote. Comprehension skill 5/7.
You took it really personal, I’ll take a wild guess: you main Pharah, right?
The evidence is that not all Mercy/Pharah mains are in GM. XD
Yea, but the way you go on, surely they should be? 
What do I have to be salty about? You’re the one with the problem here. XD
Hahah… It’s not an argument, it’s the truth. Some heroes are just plain more effective at lower ranks than they are at higher ranks.
Naah, I’m not a Pharah main. I’m not taking anything personal. What I do is enter a debate but if I find that the guy on the other end isn’t willing to accept any reasoned points what so ever and is basically just here to piss and moan, I guess there’s nothing left but to point out how silly he’s being and then watch him squirm and complain like an angry mouse caught in cats claws.
You’re too stuck to the idea that you’re right and are willing to argue it no matter how silly that makes you appear and no matter how many paper thin rebuttals you can come up with. It’s funny but the fun has to end at some point so I’m out, I’ll leave you to it since I know that Blizz knows Phamercy is pretty well balanced at higher levels. 
“I talk about proves and evidence but I don’t have any, so I’ll call you a whiny b-itch and leave cuz I have no argument beside “Blizzard knows it!” (which more than once has been proved wrong with other things, but sure in this case is different)”
Jeez thank god I have “forum kids translator” 101.
EDIT: and you STILL don’t undestand what I wrote previously. Something being not healthy means NOT FUN to play against. The combo is strong, but please I want you to QUOTE ME letter for letter about how I said it was OP. Unhealthy and OP are two different things, learn basic text comprehension. English it’s not my first language but I was pretty clear about it. But no, you like calling people bad so I guess there’s no reasoning WITH YOU.
just because something it’s easily counterd in the higher levels doesn’t mean it should be allowed to pub-stomp. […] Yeah you can counter the combo theoretically, but in practice it’s still unhealthy.
Killing Pharah and Mercy in the sky is much more difficult than anyone else near Mercy on earth.
To limit the possibilities of this ligament, and to balance the strength and abilities of all the characters, you just need to remove the possibility of levitation Mercy, that it could not constantly hang (Soar in the air) in the air next to the Pharah.