That is, why mine aint an opinion, mine is factual backed up, by the lead designers. BTW.
So you wanna keep going or you have something relevant to add and not dispute everything that is universally agreed upon since release because you want to feel like it is opinions ? You tried to prove a point yet horribly failed, when it is easily backed up.
hi, so you need 2-3 heroes to kill one (Reaper) , and in your opinion this is not op?
Widow can “1v6” kill a reaper behind a rein shield with zen orb and mercy pocket instantly, “IS ThAT nOt Op”. You see the problem here. There are counters to certain heroes, Mccree can easily 1v1 a reaper on equal footing. Yet you are mad that the heroes that Reaper is supposed to counter the hardest might need supports to be able to do so. Hmmm Sounds kinda like how Pharah pretty much needs a Mercy to be able to even survive against hitscan.
Everyone know Reaper counters tanks. I would call it uninspired if that’s all you got to answer all questions or issues around reaper. And if this is all what you got to justify your behavior here then it sure is a weak one.
Nice to see your comment flee from the subject matter. Next.
Except he can’t use Wraithwalk while stunned or frozen… so nope. And if your positioning is any good, you can force him to use it to get close, so he doesn’t have it available to escape. Either way, he isn’t killing your tank anymore is he? Which gives your dps another chance to hit him before he gets close again.
No… knock him away and shoot him! He doesn’t heal much at all if he isn’t right in someone’s face shooting them.
What? Seriously? He doesn’t heal shooting shields… so how is his 250hp going to help him survive while he breaks down a 900hp Orisa shield or 2000hp Rhein shield exactly??? Also takes him quite a whole to break either shield (and he doesn’t do that as quickly as McCree or Sym do!, even at point blank range)
At close range Bastion puts out 450 damage PER SECOND… Reaper’s healing is nowhere near that high! Reaper’s max healing is 140 hp per second… so even at max healing Reaper is dead in under one second…
Then your positioning is terrible if you are letting the enemy shoot your team from a position you can’t shoot them back.
Any character including tanks can take him out fairly easily after a Biotic… 3v1 even without a Biotic nade and he dies in seconds…
I haven’t tested this but I have been told he does NOT life-steal from adaptive shields, same as you don’t gain ult charge from shooting adaptive shields.
I’m a tank main who has been playing steadily since the patch thanks and I’ve seen and/or tested pretty much everything on the list.
Basic communication and teamwork is not and should not be considered Plat level play! Maybe silver/gold level at best… Nothing on this list was an advanced tactic… AT ALL! Most are just using a single ability!
Well there is exactly ONE way to do that. Delete all the characters but 1. Otherwise its practically impossible to balance at all skill levels. Some characters will always require higher skill than others so will seem weak at lower levels, some characters require less skill so seem more powerful at lower levels. I really hope you aren’t suggesting we balance the game around Bronze players??? That would kill the game REALLY quickly…
Bear trap is NOT an ult… its a normal junk-rat ability on a fairly short CD, if you are referring to nuke, that was a reply to your comment about Nuking him as far as I’m aware, no-one has an actual nuke as an ult (well cept maybe Diva 
), Many ults do counter him as well but there was not a single ult in that list.
I don’t mean to be insulting, but it does seem you have a very poor understanding of how the game mechanics actually work as your replies have got a LOT wrong… Perhaps working on that instead of complaining about a character you clearly don’t understand how to fight against might be a better approach?
Really where did I say it requires 2 characters to kill him? Oh right I didn’t… I just illustrated ways that Rhein+Mercy could kill a Reaper is has already got himself in an optimal position…
Big difference!
Yet, if rine hits his charge its all over. Not to mention that Mercy is a dmg boosting support more so then a healing one atm.
Rine can do auto + fire strike + auto in less then 1 sec.
2 autos 150 and 100 with fire strike. thats 250 dmg without mercys dmg boost. Then he can abuse the fact that its a swing attack with a deley, turning his back to reaper so that he wont land crits to over heal. And even so if mercy dmg boost that combo reaper can’t overheal it.
And then you have the fact that rine isn’t there just to kill stuff, thats not his job yet his so good at that people think it might as well be.
And then you have the fact that Reaper is one of rines “counters” and even so rine will away’s win ult fights vs every playable hero in this game but maybe pharah.
Ill add an example of the thing you try’d to do.
I play Pharah Mercy and this Widow/Ashe player totally kill’d us 1 v 2.
I was playing Winston Mercy and this Bastion totally solo’d us.
In the end of the day, Rine still a better pick then 95% of the games playable heroes.
Except he can’t use Wraithwalk while stunned or frozen… so nope.
And if you’re in a rank wherein Mei is a common choice and your DPS can deal sufficient damage in the time before he escapes I’m sure that’d be great… and if you’ll notice, that rank does not exist.
if your positioning is any good, you can force him to use it to get close
Or he can just not, and simply pick off anyone on your team that strays too far.
No… knock him away and shoot him!
And wraith…
He doesn’t heal shooting shields
When did I say he did?
how is his 250hp going to help him survive while he breaks down a 900hp Orisa shield or 2000hp Rhein shield exactly
He doesn’t have to break them, he can just walk through them. Later on you accuse me of not understanding the game, but seriously I hope you were joking here.
At close range Bastion puts out 450 damage PER SECOND… Reaper’s healing is nowhere near that high!
That’s true, and if Bastion could land every shot he would win. But if Reaper comes up from behind he’ll kill the Bastion before he can turn around.
your positioning is terrible if you are letting the enemy shoot your team from a position you can’t shoot them back.
Again I hope you’re joking, if you don’t understand that barriers can move and that their function is precisely what you just said: to create a position where your team is safe but can still attack.
Any character including tanks can take him out fairly easily after a Biotic
That’s what I just said.
I have been told he does NOT life-steal from adaptive shields
He absolutely does, it’s based on damage dealt to heroes. The type of health doesn’t make a difference except as far as armour reduces his damage.
I’m a tank main who has been playing steadily since the patch thanks and I’ve seen and/or tested pretty much everything on the list.
Then you know that what I’m saying is accurate.
Basic communication and teamwork is not and should not be considered Plat level play!
I agree, but it absolutely is.
Most are just using a single ability!
It’s not about the ability, it’s about what the other 5 people on your team are doing at the time. As a tank main you will know that if your DPS aren’t getting the kills you need no amount of holding your shield up will make a difference.
I really hope you aren’t suggesting we balance the game around Bronze players?
As I explained in my post the game must be balanced around the majority of players, which as far as I know is around plat and gold. But if something is BROKEN in any rank it needs fixing. If Reaper gets a 0.2% lower pick rate in GM I really don’t mind.
no-one has an actual nuke as an ult (well cept maybe Diva
Maybe it’s your first day here, but it’s decently common to refer to self destruct as a nuke… and that’s what I assumed you were talking about at the start of your post. It’s an ability that kills everything.
it does seem you have a very poor understanding of how the game mechanics actually work as your replies have got a LOT wrong
Perhaps it seems that way because your own experience is lacking?
Perhaps working on that instead of complaining about a character you clearly don’t understand how to fight against
The whole issue is that I do understand how to fight him. I main Moira, it is trivially easy to beat a Reaper just by keeping distance. The problem is that (and it’s a similar issue to one I have with Doomfist) every hit he scores on your team returns health, which means one or two weak links in your team make him extremely tough to deal with. Moira’s lifesteal is balanced because it’s so low, Mercy’s regen requires a period without taking damage, and at the very least Doomfist’s shields are limited. Reaper can leech off a tank for several seconds of continuous high damage without a scratch at the end, which doesn’t lend itself to balance.
It’s not a radical idea to return Reaper’s lifesteal back to 30%, or even 40%, but it’s clearly too high right now, and you need to come up with a better argument against solving the issue than “git gud” if you want to be taken seriously.
can you plleeeaaassseeee calm down! it’s painful to watch this feed. We are ALL different skill levels, artemis i agree with some stuff, i agree with some stuff from others. Reaper is broken so what, do lets FIX THE ISSUE AND NOT SQUABBLE LIKE BABIES
No you can’t do that in less than one second.
One swing takes 0.9 seconds. The full animation for fire strike is 1.6 seconds.
I’m not pulling this out of my a**. I’m getting this from the wiki.
So that’s a total of 2.1 seconds for 1 swing + 1 Fire Strike. In that time Reaper should have easily been healing for more than 200hp from his passive, and he potentially took 175 damage.
What you mentioned takes even longer.
1 swing + 1 firestrike + 1 swing is 3 seconds NOT 1 second.
That combo is not 3 sec at best its 1.2-1.5 sec. Since the point in that combo is to cut animations. He even can cancel his swing animation by pulling up shield aka every swing.
Its not since Fire strike cancels the 1st swing animation.
Swing + fire strike + swing takes about 1.2-1.5 sec.
1st swing gets cancel’d by the firestrike, 2n swing doesn’t need to do the full animation before it starts to do its damage but on the 3’d swing you’ll need to finish the 2n swings animation time or you can just use shield to cancel it
Swing fire strike combo
Swing shield animation canceling
Over all if you have shield you can cancel your animation.
Then you have the no push back combo swings that not only remove rines push back letting him get more hits in but hide his crit hit box. Just rotate so you hit your opp with the end of the swing/back side of the hammer. And a smart rine shield minimize some if not more then half of reapers dmg and healing. On top with Mercy dmg boost he has a good chance of killing the reaper, at best just kill the reaper when his reloading with that combo.
And this isn’t a hero ment for dpsing or picking fights with the a tank killer yet he can, yet his ult wins every team fight, and his pack full with utility and cc.
Over all still better then 95% of this games heroes. Hes never going to be a back or a troll pick.
Juts to show you how long 3 sec’s are, a Tracer blink has 3 sec cd.
You act as if the reaper is a top 500 Smurf and all said counters are played by bronze players. Srsly a flashbang +fan the hammer and he is dead. Reaper has a 52% win rate over all with a 4% pick rate (same pickrate as McCree and lower then genji) stat seems fine and this looks like a You problem. (His winrate is bellow 50% in bronze-silver-gold)
All right sure you can cancel the first swing. If you cancel to soon though you miss 75 damage and will only do 100 damage and it will cost you more time so you’re required to know how to play Reinhardt pretty well.
But if you succeed you will be doing the first 75 damage for less time.
However, I don’t think you can cancel the firestrike animation with the next swing. You will have to let the whole firestrike animation run before you can do the next swing. Perhaps you can cancel it with the shield and launch the next swing just a little faster, I’ll have to test if that exactly wins any time.
So all you do is remove say .5 seconds from the total time cost of the combo.
0.4 + 1.2 = 1.6 seconds for swing + firestrike. Which is 175 damage. Repaer easily heals 150 in that timeframe if he doesn’t wraithwalk to dodge the firestrike.
If firestrike can be canceled then: 0.4 + 0.6 (instead of 1.2) = 1 second.
Then the next swing will hit at 1.4 so OK I see how you get to your 1.5 in perfect conditions. Definitely not 1.2 though.
But in any case, reaper will outlive you cause even if you manage to throw out 250 damage in 1.5 seconds, reaper would have healed a portion of that. And while your next swings will be completely outhealed as well by far. Reinhardt will die by the time he ended the next swing.
As mentioned before I know reaper is the counter for tanks. I didn’t start this thread cause reaper wins against Reinhardt. I made this thread cause reaper can outlive a Reinhardt+Mercy combo by outhealing all of Reinhardt’s damage, while mercy can’t outheal Reaper’s damage. I think it’s quite remarkable for many reasons. Not only cause of Reaper. But it also questions Mercy’s role.
And as we all know McCree is very common in the low ranks. Also we’re now using a tank-busting combo on a DPS, because that’s what counts as “balance” for some people.
And here we go with another “but the winrate” when people are unilaterally complaining about something there’s probably an issue, saying “there is no issue, go home” isn’t actually contributing to the discussion.
Reaper is a close range carry.
Rine is a team-play main tank.
Nothing strange about him losing a fight when 60% of his team is gone.
In a 6 v 6 Rine is more needed and useful then a Reaper in a team.
Rine can also hit his change (i know low %) but its up there and gets hier the closer and greedyer a Reaper gets.
Mercy isn’t a healing support and shes not the best support for a rine to have.
Mercy is a support for hyper carry’s not tanks. Mercy is best with Widows, Ashe’s and Mccrees.
Like i said, this example is really close to Pharah Mercy vs a Widow that hits her shots or a Bastion vs Winston/Hammond Mercy. Game isn’t balanced for 1 v 1s or 1 v 2’s since at that point one team is cleaning.
And in your math you need to factor the shield can cancels animations and lower Reapers damage and healing on top of that Reaper has some reload time opening a window for the combo to kill him(A bigger window with dmg boost and not healing).
Getting a pharah down with a headshot compares reaper to shooting a reinhardt in close range? Surely you see the difference in skill and luck required here. Also it doesn’t need to be a pharah. Widow can headshot kill all 250hp heroes.
And Bastion shreds everyone in the game. That’s his thing. It’s not just against tanks. And it comes at a unique cost which everyone can take advantage of as well.
I feel that you’re making this very complicated for what it is.
Basically you need 3 people to kill reaper in this situation. Mercy will keep healing Rein to keep him alive and someone else will need to help kill him. So reaper does take quite a lot of attention in a group fight. If just one of the 3 doesn’t fulfill his role properly and in time, Rein will die. So basically, just ditch the Mercy to begin with.
Reaper shoots every 0.5 seconds so you can’t win any games by pulling up your shield and try to get some damage somewhere in between. You’re not doing damage either when you pull up your shield and he does damage at a higher rate. You could try to block a few shots and take advantage of reloading time later on. But again. You will need to do more than 100-140 damage per second to actually do damage. Rein simply can’t do this.
Also on a side note, I enjoy discussing this and I started this thread cause really I was amazed. But I’m sure they’re going to make some changes. Either directly or indirectly. Because not all maps allow the team to counter reaper properly. And I’m sure their intention was not this dramatic. It’s not the first time they revert back some of the dramatic changes.
I don’t know for me your just trying to make rine sound weak and reaper op.
And that’s just not the case. Reaper is doing his job. Killing tanks. Just like Widow is doing her’s sniping flying targers. Bastion can lose to D.va or other picks just not “Main tanks” even if they have a healer healing them. That’s just how the game works. Rine’s job isn’t to go look for 1 v 1s or 1 v 2s with a Reaper. His job it to get his ult and win every team right, prove utility for the team and make space.
If this amazed you then i don’t even know.
It sounded like you wanted something easy but okey, 2 headshots with McCree or Ashe will do more dps then he heals.
And please explain how he is OP if he isn’t winning games.
He currently has the same win rate as Ashe in GM while she is picked nearly 3 times as much. Seems like gasp people are adapting instead of complaining. Who knew?