Reaper vs Rein+Mercy

General Discussion
1

This is not really a whine post. Just found this funny.
Mercy was healing Rein, Rein was hitting Reaper.
Reaper was shooting Rein.
Reaper outlived Rein.

I found this funny cause I didn’t think about it before.
But indeed it makes sense.

(incorrect what’s written below. See edit2 for correct details)

The full potential self heal of a reaper is 70 hp every 1.5 seconds. That is not unlikely vs big tanks.
Rein does 55 effective damage every 1.5 seconds, if you count reaper’s self heal. Reaper doesn’t outheal Rein’s damage but he will outlive the clean fight if all shots land from closeup.
It would take reaper 6.8 seconds to die from Rein if every swing hits.
It would take Rein 5.3seconds to die from Reaper if all shots land from up close.

If you’re a support and everyone died except you and Winston or Rein, just run away, nothing you can do :smiley:
Best thing you can do is both attack the reaper. One may survive.
I know it’s a whole different story with Ana or Zen, or Moira even.

This might beg the question though, what’s Mercy still doing in the game.

Please tell me if I messed up the math, wouldn’t surprise me.

Edit: Well I made an error.
I didn’t count in mercy’s heals. So it would actually take Rein 8.3 seconds to die from Reaper if all shots land from up close. Still pretty close. If the fight starts with Rein only at 400 total hp though, then he loses it.

EDIT2: I got confused with recharge time so everything above is wrong.

Reaper’s full potential damage is actually:
Damage: 280 per second
Heal: 140 per second
So Reaper DOES outheal Rein’s hammer swings, which does 75 damage, and could potentially end up full HP at the end and face mercy after Reinhardt dies.
Reinhardt would die in just over 2 seconds even with mercy healing. So it IS a waste of time for a Mercy to heal Reinhardt through this fight.

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2

I’ve been wondering this since day 1.

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3

Umm Rhein does 75 damage per swing… not 55.

4

I made an error there, though not the way you suggested.
One swing is 0.9 seconds. So 1.5 seconds is 125 damage.

Edit: Right, that’s why I mentioned 55 damage.
125 - 70 (potential heals) = 55
But it is an error cause Reaper doesn’t completely outheal Rein’s damage. I modified my post.

5

Errrr?

Sorry that is clearly wrong, Rhein does 83 damage per second not 55/second. You may have meant after healing but that wasn’t what you said and still doesn’t tally up with the numbers. :slight_smile: I can see you changed your post to be more accurate now.

Also if Rhein is that close to Reaper where he can’t shield (so Reaper can’t heal) and Reaper is scoring full damage, then landing a charge is pretty easy.

Other tactics that might work including Mercy healing while Rhein shields, then boosting while he damages (he can switch between the two after 1-2 swings to restore to full HP before swinging again)

Mercy could have switched to pistol adding 100 damage/second with body shots.

Rhein could shield while Mercy shoots, reaper is dead in 2.5sec then.

Winston can dance in and out of his shield bubble to solo a Reaper as well or escape as needed.

There are quite a few counters to Reaper even with the classes he is best against!

6

Yes I mentioned it in my previous response to your post as well.

Yeah sure there are other factors that will play a role in how the fight ends but I’m just talking about raw damage/heal numbers.
Keep in mind though that a Reaper will get in Rein’s shield, like, behind the shield but still in front of Rein. And just like you can use some counter moves against reaper, he can use counter moves against that.
What I found funny though is how Reaper has the raw number advantage vs a Rein/Winston + mercy.

7

Except Reaper has pretty much shadowwalk and thats it. Hes a very limited hero and there is little he can do versa the various counters except escape. He is by far the least versatile character in the game and pays for that.

If Rhein charges, at worst (for Rhein) hes outside of Reaper’s effective range.

Was what I was suggesting the other tactics about as its clearly not true. There is plenty you can do and not lose.

8

Have you managed to make charge work against Wraith Form? :smiley:

The point I’m making is that Rein can hardly kill Reaper even when he’s healed by mercy. Don’t you find this amazing? Big dude 500 hp + mercy heals vs small dude 250hp with hero passive?

And yeah I’d consider dump the tank if I was mercy and find a better way to spend the heals. Even if everyone is dead. Even if it’s just to save your own life and avoid the feed.

9

I managed to win a 1-on-1 as Rein vs Reaper. He was high Bronze, I am mid-high Gold (but a year ago I was low silver, so in competitive CTF I’m still silver thus matched with Bronze players -.-), so it doesn’t really count…

As to the meat of the post: Mercy. Her Ress right now is in exactly the spot it should be - often a very risky play, enabling long-range heroes (who can be ressed more safely). Damage boost also enables long-range heroes, which sort of gives you a theme: Mercy is weak these days, because close-range heroes are stronger than long-range. GOATS is close-range, new McCree is close-range, Reaper is close-range. Seems to me that in order to get rid of those close-range metas and Mercy’s slump, we’d require stronger long-ranged heroes… without the random insta-kills of a spamming Hanzo or a Widow who fires 5 shots in a single death cam vid…

10

Well yeah, Mercy is the worst healer right now and Reaper is grossly OP.

Only way to deal with Reaper is long range, if just one of your teammates gets too close he’ll outlive anything short of a nuke.

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11

Wow a tankbuster, that gets healing from attacking and only works in close quarters, bashed up a big lower damage tank, who got healed at the same time, i wonder why that might have been.

But seriously tho, why is this first happening now, this is basically how reaper should have always functioned, to be completely feared by tanks especially someone like rein or Orisa.

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12

I really cannot understand, why you keep pushing your “grossly” subjective opinions, like why do you keep spreading them, when you know that nothing you say is even remotely accurate. Or at least is “Grossly” masked behind a vague statement.

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13

Yeah, a Nuke…
or a Bear-trap
or a ice-wall
or a shield
or a freezing blast
or a lucio boop
or a pharah concussion rocket
or a HALT
or a flashbang
or a deflect
or a Bastion (try outhealing that!)
or a ShieldBash
or a defensive matrix
or a seismic fist
or a arrow to the head
or a sniper shot to the head
or a concussion mine
or a rocket charge
or a biotic grenade (zero healing fun for Reaper)
or adaptive shields
or a particle barrier…

Yep, no options for dealing with reaper when he gets close at all…

PS. Try to spot the sarcasm in that post :rofl:

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14

It could be because this is a forum for discussion. Do you have anything to contribute to the conversation or are you here to waste my time?

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15

Your very first example is “just solo ult him” which should explain to you how broken he is. But lets examine your list.

  1. “Stun/Freeze/Trap him!” that really won’t help given that he has Wraith walk to escape.
  2. “Knock him away!” And then he will reset and come back, that is not a method of killing him… unless you mean the extremely niche circumstance of knocking him off of the map.
  3. “Block his shots!” And then he will break or outlast whatever shield and kill you anyway.
  4. “Bastion will beat his healing” No he won’t, if he’s at close range he will kill the bastion first, which is why people think he’s broken. And he has Wraith walk to close the distance.
  5. “Headshot him at range” And he’s standing behind a barrier, so you can’t shoot him, but he can still shoot your team on the ground.
  6. “Use biotic grenade” yes this does hard counter his healing, but it really shouldn’t need to be a thing just to kill him in a 3v1.

And I cannot seriously believe you just said “use adaptive shields” as though he can’t heal from shield health… every time you take damage you are healing him, so playing Hammond into a Reaper is actively making your team’s job harder. Play the patch before claiming you have the “obvious” solution. As has been explained the problem does not exist at high ranks where you can rely on a competent team with the right comp to counter. The problem is in lower ranks, where saying “just pull off Plat+ level play for the whole match” is not a valid response.

The game has to be balanced for everyone, not just the pros, and I don’t see why this change was necessary given that the pros STILL don’t use Reaper but now he’s rampant in low level play.

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16

I just contributed, to tell you how vague you are, you keep spreading your personal experience in low ranks like it is factual evidence, or even remotely true. That is, what i did.

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17

Sorry but you’re not contributing at all. The contrary really, you’re making this personal and you’re not tackling the issue at all.

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18

I make nothing personal at all, i am not attacking the person in question, i am simply stating, why his personal experience is not relevant in a debate of problems. That is, why we have factual evidence or statistics to prove him otherwise, but sure let him keep on saying how Mercy is “grossly underpowered”, reaper is massively overpowered etc, when we have stats that prove, that skill involved as a factor deny both these claims heavily. In fact, Reaper is in need of a re tweak as bad as mccree (Aka mr rightclick) is, cause both their buffs didn´t solve the fundamental problems the heroes have.

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19

Factual evidence like mentioned here?

Wow a tankbuster, that gets healing from attacking and only works in close quarters, bashed up a big lower damage tank, who got healed at the same time, i wonder why that might have been.

But seriously tho, why is this first happening now, this is basically how reaper should have always functioned, to be completely feared by tanks especially someone like rein or Orisa.

It’s ok you can give opinions but you’re the one on that’s on the other person’s a$$ for giving his.

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20

Alright here you go, factual evidence from the lead designer himself. Saying that reaper was supposed to counter tank heavy comps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=siuHmEBgCYY