Roadhog and the current "meta" - a short thesis

General Discussion
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Hello everyone interested (and hopefully someone at Blizzard),

I’ve never posted in the OW forum before because I always thought it had no impact on anyone/anything, but here I am giving it a shot nevertheless.

The previous “double shield” meta (opinion based)

The only meta in which I have actively avoided Overwatch as a game in a timespan of 4 years has been what is now known as the shield meta. It has been the game’s dominating meta for the last couple of months and has been very unenjoyable for me personally and the majority of players I know.

Mainly because of 2 reasons:

    1. I like OW as the dynamic game it has been intended to be. With the shield meta it became somewhat very static and most of the playtime was spent shooting shields (not very much fun)
    1. It has made two characters that I really do not like for their immense crowd control (Brigitte) and sometimes awful unfair encounters in the right hands (Doomfist) more viable.

So for me nerfing this meta was not only overdue for a very long time, but essential to a completely balanced game, which is the proclaimed goal of the Overwatch developers.

If you’re thinking about it, as long as you have a so called “meta” you have per definition an unbalanced game (herowise), as per definition there is a combination of 2 or more heroes that in its premise has a remarkable advantage over other heroes and is therefore played more often and more easily).

Roadhog’s role in the shield meta

Roadhog was not viable in the last meta at all and at times felt very difficult and somewhat unrewarding to play. Here are some reasons why that might have been:

  • he was not able to break 2 shields consistently as the amount of shields and the regeneration rate of such was too high in relation to his maximum damage output
  • he was not able to properly implement his 1 shot capability (hook + shot + melee) against all squishies (e.g. Ana, Reaper, Mei), because of a lack of damage
  • with Brig being played and taking armor into consideration, he was not able to 1 shot any squishy with armor

On top of all of it comes the general tendency to more crowdcontrol with every new hero (e.g. Ana, Sombra, Doomfist, Sigma, Orisa) which further restricted him and made flanks difficult. risky and mostly unrewarding.

The current balance state of the game (tank wise, considering Gold to Master players)

While in the previos meta only 3 tanks were viable (namely those with a decent amount of shield) right now every tank except for D.va can be played and from what I have seen is played in QP and competetive mode (considering Gold to Masters only, basically the majority of OW players). In my opinion either an increase in D.va’s shield matrix uptime or an increase in her armor portion could elevate her to the level of all of the other tanks.

Why Roadhog is not overpowered (damage wise)

A lot of people yell “Roadhog OP” right now at the top of their lungs, because they are not able to properly handle a Roadhog.

Right now Hog is in a good position (that is not the same as overpowered), as Brigitte is not played often anymore, therefore there is no armor in the game, therefore he can properly use his 1 shot combo. As soon as Brigitte sees more playtime, Roadhog will have a harder life overall and not be played as much. People do not consider this at all.

He has many counters, people also forgot about completely. A frontline Mei can become his greatest nightmare easily (as seen in competetive play and scrims). Ana has 2 abilities that can cancel his self healing and because of his immense size, he can be hit easily (I personally consider Ana his biggest counter). As mentioned a squishie with armor cannot be 1 shotted, making Brigitte a passive counter to him.

What could be nerfed if he stays strong for a longer period of time instead of his damage per shot pellet

What I’ve heard so far when people are angry about an enemy Roadhog is the statement of him being unkillable. So a reduction in damage reduction during healing (weird word combination, but you get the point) or less healing when taking a breather or decreasing his movement speed during healing are all capable methods of lowering his survivability (and therefore making it easier to kill him at all) without taking away his only viable tool to deal with out of position flankers (which was his role in the first place).

Remember when the first “dive meta” started back in season 5? Guess what, that happened shortly after a nerf to Roadhog’s gun and therefore his 1 shot ability (patch 1.12.0.2 - 6/20/2017):

  • Bullet damage decreased by 33%.
  • Fire rate increased by 30%.
  • Clip size increased from 4 to 5.

At this point Blizzard it seems that Blizzard is just repeating patches. So the only thing left for me to do is hoping that someone at Blizzard thinks this patch idea through and doesn’t repeat the exact same thing they did years ago. Above I’ve listed 3 different ways how Roadhog can be nerfed without creating a new meta and therefore further unbalancing this game again.

Hopes and prayers for good ol’ Hog.

2 Likes
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If you’re gonna keep demanding the meta changes, you get exactly what you deserve.

With the shield meta it became somewhat very static and most of the playtime was spent shooting shields

Amazing how even after nerfing the shield health in half you have still not grown the second brain cell needed to simply walk around them.

  1. It has made two characters that I really do not like for their immense crowd control (Brigitte) and sometimes awful unfair encounters in the right hands (Doomfist) more viable.

Brigitte has a 0.34% pick rate, Doomfist has a 1.22% pick rate. Ana has a 16% pick rate.

as long as you have a so called “meta” you have per definition an unbalanced game

Then your definition of balance is terrible, because all games have meta. That is not a bug you can fix, that is how games work.

  • he was not able to break 2 shields consistently as the amount of shields and the regeneration rate of such was too high in relation to his maximum damage output

This is especially silly given that Roadhog excels at breaking shields. This was not the problem, in fact there was no problem at all.

  • with Brig being played and taking armor into consideration, he was not able to 1 shot any squishy with armor

Brig hasn’t provided armour for months. Sorry, but this actually proves that armour was never an issue, because you complain even when it’s not there.

more crowdcontrol with every new hero (e.g. Ana, Sombra, Doomfist, Sigma, Orisa)

Given how powerful mobility was at launch this is not surprising. But let’s just completely forget that Mei has existed since launch and is entirely focused on CC. Also McCree who has an identical stun ability to Brigitte except that it can be directed, Junkrat whose CC is the most potent in the game. Also let’s ignore that only one hero on your list has a pick rate above 2% and that’s Ana, who was added first and is basically an original hero. Whining about Sombra when she is a throw pick is just pathetic. CC has never been overpowered, you are simply incapable of learning from your mistakes and get punished for it.

right now every tank except for D.va can be played

Orisa has a 0.07% pick rate, lower than Bastion. This is totally unacceptable and obviously not balanced in any sense. Sigma, Dva, Winston and Reinhardt are all below 2%. Wrecking Ball is at 3%. Zarya is at 13% and Roadhog is at 16%. This is significantly worse than during double shield meta, but suddenly you’re fine with it…

Right now Hog is in a good position

Hog is a must-pick…

Brigitte is not played often anymore

Brigitte has not been relevant since 2018. Stop whining about her.

As soon as Brigitte sees more playtime

You should obviously know that this is never going to happen, Brig has been nerfed far too many times to be fixed.

A frontline Mei

Mei has a 0.3% pick rate.

As mentioned a squishie with armor cannot be 1 shotted, making Brigitte a passive counter to him.

Just going to remind everyone again that this ability is not in the game, and you’re still complaining about it.

So a reduction in damage reduction during healing (weird word combination, but you get the point) or less healing when taking a breather or decreasing his movement speed during healing are all capable methods of lowering his survivability

OR we could rebuff the other tanks so that Hog isn’t overpowered, instead of constantly nerfing everything down.

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Woah… nothing needs buffing!

Power creep needs to be toned down and meta shifts need to be frequent. Keep the game fresh!

No more of this stagnation in one single meta for too long.

And on one of your points. Sombra isn’t a throw pick, she’s actually one of the meta dps. Just played badly by people in lower ranks.

1 Like
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Power creep doesn’t exist. Sombra’s pick rate is 0.47% in GM, so I guess even “the best” players don’t realise that she’s meta lol.

At this point I’m pretty sure you don’t even own the game, you’re never even close to right.

1 Like
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I agree.

@Art3mis:

You have made some interesting points, but try not to insult in a formal discussion and play nice:

Because I was refering to the shields BEFORE the nerf. Of course after the nerf the shield break worked well again (which I like), because shield regeneration couldn’t keep up.

I do not want a meta change. I do not want a meta at all and therefore a perfectly (or as close to that point as possible) balanced game. That’s the developers’ goal and I like that.

You speak in present tense. I spoke about the past. I felt Brigitte and Doomfist were (past tense) very good picks in the shield meta and I (like probably a lot of people) wouldn’t like to see them becoming so strong again because of their character design.

Where do you get your information for the pick rates? Mind sharing with us? (Could come in handy)

Is it OWL only, all players, all modes?

Well over the past couple of years characters with a low pick rate have been buffed and became very dominant again. I do not know why that can’t happen to Brigitte. I cannot predict the future. Maybe you have inside knowledge we do not possess. If so, feel free to share.

I can only emphasize that I prefer scalable buffs/nerfs over on/off ones. For example you can finetune Roadhog’s self healing or his mobility during healing any way you want. But the one shot ability is either available or it is not.

Same thing with Junkrat back in the days. He was given a second mine (an on/off change). What could have been done is slowly increasing the projectile speed of his grenade launcher’s bullets until direct hits are more probable and his pick rate increases.

I hope I got my point across.

Cheers.

1 Like
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Power creep doesn’t exist? So why have they said it does and toned down the damage numbers in the last patch?

Everyone who reads the patches knows power creep is a thing. They kept buffing counters instead of nerfing the problem… what do you call that… power creep is what you call it.

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Where do you get your information for the pick rates?

Overbuff, it tracks pick rates across all the ranks in QP and Comp. OWL has a tracker as well which you can check by season, but I don’t think OWL is really relevant.

over the past couple of years characters with a low pick rate have been buffed and became very dominant again

That’s just not true. For one buffs are extremely rare, generally heroes get nerfed instead. For two, heroes like Pharah, Junkrat, Echo, Reaper, Symmetra and Mei have all been nerfed despite having a >1% pickrate.

I do not know why that can’t happen to Brigitte.

Brigitte has never received a buff. She is despised by the community and will never be allowed to get close to relevance. Same goes for Orisa.

But the one shot ability is either available or it is not.

You aren’t entitled to free one-shots btw.

He was given a second mine (an on/off change). What could have been done is slowly increasing the projectile speed of his grenade launcher’s bullets until direct hits are more probable and his pick rate increases.

Changing a hero’s projectile speed screws over everyone who has memorised it, which is why it should be a last resort. Junkrat is not meta because shields have been nerfed, so a hero dedicated to breaking them is a waste on your team. Buffing shields would make heroes like Pharah, Junkrat and Bastion more viable, and reduce the number of Ashe, Genji and McCree picks.

1 Like
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Be careful with overbuff… while its fun to get a vague idea, it only looks at open profiles. So it only gets a fraction of the data.

Also, OWL is relevant in terms of meta. Metas usually come from what the pros are doing and slowly filters down (the best players, coaches and analysts dissecting the patch to find the optimal comp for each situation… don’t think Barry from Manchester is going to do that on his own in ranked lol)

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You just defend Hog because you main him in Comp

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Tbf. Hog still looks like he will be pretty strong on this patch.

He will just move from a must pick to a viable pick. Looks like tanks will all have their place now.

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Hog was extremely strong but not OP, he became a must pick because there is no MAINTANK atm. rein is bad, orisa is bad and so is sigma. because these characters are in there state right now thats why hog is a must pick. power creep is a thing and your nuts if you think it isn’t (just look at base damage from the earlier season to now) . the problem all occurred when they started making multiple strong shield tanks. imagine of sigma and orisa hadn’t been added, rein would be the main shield 100% of the time, no double barrier. the problem occurred when they tried making multiple heroes in the tank role to do the same job

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I hope so.

Update: Nevermind, the patch is life. Wish they had nerfed his survivability instead of his combo. But hey, what can you do. :expressionless: See you in 3 years when the patch cycle starts anew. :upside_down_face:

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His combo always one shot the squishes. It just became oppressive to tanks. Now its less so.

He will still be an absolute menace to dumb players that can’t coordinate and communicate. So he will still get lots of value in ranked.

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I don’t even play Comp anymore… and I literally have never defended Hog’s state.

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Is “balance” really that relevant in quickplay/arcade??

Genuine question as I haven’t play them modes since leveling… it always just felt like random cluster f’s with people messing about and chilling out. So in my head balance is irrelevant as people will just do as they please?

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QP has exactly the same ruleset as Comp, so I don’t see what the difference is.

Balancing around high-tier comp gives a disproportionate focus to well-ordered teams, which most players don’t have. Sombra and Brig are ok if you have comms, but in solo-queue they’re worthless throw picks. That’s not balanced IMO. Better to have the game working for the majority of people and let things be a little chaotic at higher ranks where players have more skills to counteract powerful strategies.

Sounds like you’re describing skirmishes… in most of my games people are at least trying to play the mode properly (though they might suck), there’s no difference I can see between QP, Arcade and Comp in terms of that. In every mode below high Masters people “do as they please”: that’s kinda the point of a game. Only a very small number of people are going to regularly be engaging with VC or full teamwork, teamwork is incidental for most players.

1 Like
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Exactly why balancing around the best players is the right thing to do.

They play the game properly. We should be from from them and improving.

Not moaning and crying for them to balance around us that can’t work together.

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There is no “properly”, the average player in gold doesn’t care what the OWL players think.

Not moaning and crying for them to balance around us

But that’s literally what high rank players do. People at our ranks just want the game to be fun, which apparently you’re against. You’d rather the game look good as an e-sport than actually be enjoyable. Those OW2 sales numbers are gonna be so great when fun isn’t a priority.

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No no. YOU don’t care about OWL and thats cool. Its not for everyone.

But they play comps correctly, and thats how the game should be balanced for. Teams playing heroes and comps together correctly.

Otherwise you’d end up buffing brig to hell again because the average player hasn’t got a clue how to get basic value from her so thinks she’s really weak.

If all you want is to vibe out and have fun game, comps and balance are totally irrelevant. Just pick who you fancy and have fun.

If you want to improve and climb. Learn comps and synergies, learn team work, learn to win. The patches and balance matter at that point as you need to be aware of how it affects each comp.

But suggesting the game is balanced for players around me? Thats just a hilariously bad idea.

1 Like
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they play comps correctly,

Correctly according to who? Who gets to decide how the game is “meant” to be played if not the players?

you’d end up buffing brig to hell again

Yes, Brig does need some buffs so that she’s actually useful.

Just pick who you fancy and have fun.

Half the roster is an unplayable, unfun mess…

suggesting the game is balanced for players around me? Thats just a hilariously bad idea

You’re welcome to have no input…