I like the 2 2 2 changes, but i have a problem with how its implemented. If you were to queue as a support you would not be able to pick any other character apart from the characters in the support tree. Here is where the problem comes in. I like symmetra, and to me she is a support. However i cant play her if i queue as a support becuase she is in the dps catagory, And if i were to queue for dps just so i can play symm it would cause some problems due to the random maps and the niche catagory sym is already in, meaning i need to play another hero, which i dont really want to do and since i dont main dps ill underperform. I just want a revision of what all the characters truly do. 2 other example that come to my mind is sombra and roadhog. Sombra acts more like a support character enabling her team more than killing (kinda like a zen where both have respectable dmg but thier value comes from thier utility). Hog is also a dps imo since he doest really help/support his team in anyway unless through picks which come through his hook or his gun dps on shields. Sure his ult is a knock back but phara and junk also have knockbacks. I dont like how its a role LOCK. It should just make it so that there is 2 dps 2 tank 2 healer players in 1 team per game. I dont see the need to add a lock if that is acheived. This would also remove the seperate sr gain per role, WHICH IS A REALLY BAD IDEA. Why u may ask. Well, a dps player can just queue for support or tank and just not give a flying f*** about the game becuase hes basically playing on a smurf account. This will decrease overall quality of games (this system was implemented in league of legends for about 3 weeks until ranked became a fiesta and riot games were forced to revert the changes back trust me this system is not good). What do you guys think about all this, im always down for a gpod debate.
- Symm used to be categorized as a support because of her shield capabilities. Now that she is changed to a point where her shields are removed, there is really no reason whatsoever to think of her as support. What does she do that actually would categorize her as a support? Her shield is more tank capability than support (but still I wouldn’t categorize her as a tank either). If you play her with only one support, you’re hampering your team’s healing capability.
- You said it yourself, Symm is situational, although she is effective in more ways than people think. I’ll even say she is, together with Mei, my least favorite character to play against. Playing against a good Symm is a nightmare in multiple occasions.
- Hog is a tank because he can go in for a push and draw enemy attention towards himself, so that DPS is more free to engage. His hooks and damage output make him a hard to ignore target, makes it harder for the enemies to focus their fire on squishier targets. But yeah, he’s definitely not a main tank.
- There will certainly be trolls going for tank and support just to be able to join a queue faster, but they’re going to be a minority - just as they are present now.
Not locking people in the role they queued for, could turn out more problematic and will probably lead to more abuse of the system’s queue times. Would you prefer people to queue as a healer or tank and then pick dps once the game starts?
I agree with all your points especially the last one but i disagree with the first. Symm is a support becuase her turrets arent used to dps they are used to deny areas and to slow, all her abilities are more useful to her team than to herself. Tele can be used on a bastion to help reposition or help an ana to get on the highground, all symm can do with it is to get a cheecky flank and go back but she wont even be able to do that safely with the upcoming changes. Her sheild is more useful to the team as a whole not just to her becuase it forces the enemy to play around the sheild creating openings for symms team not openings for herself per se. Just becuase she cant heal doesnt me she isnt a support. In a way torb is a supp with his huge area denial etc. Also there are instances where a second healer isnt needed. A team can have alot of self heal and self reliance that having a second healer would be useless and having a team organiser like symm can be better to help provide the team with mobility and a safe space. Teams with soldier mei zarya hog tracer etc. Also lets remember symm was still a supp when they removed the ally sheild and gave her a literal sheild. I dont see how she would be catagorised as a dps as well tbh she can never really be relied upon to go for frags its just nice when she does.
You basically described the role of a tank there - not a support. In my definition, a support has healing capabilities. According to your logic, Rein has a shield that protects the team, so he is support.
Okay, I know it’s all semantics and stuff, and this discussion ultimately does not matter that much, but you’re really looking at this from a wrong perspective.
Oh, and while I state that Symm’s “team support” abilities are more those of a Tank than a Support, I still don’t think she should qualify as Tank either. Definitely not Support, but also not a Tank. There are many heroes who can be considered semi-Tank or semi-Support, but in the end have a kit too limited to be fully qualified as such. That’s why they belong in the DPS category. Before the latest patch, I didn’t fully consider Brigitte as a support either.
Again a support doesnt need to be a healer the only thing that differentiates a tank from a utility support(not healer) is that the tank champ enables the team by protecting them in the front line giving the team time to do what they are meant to do and orchastrating the tf acting as anchors. A utility support is for sure not an anchor and while they do protect thier team the same way tanks do they dont protect by acting as a front line, they protect by protecting the backline. Other than that symm cant tank and cant dps the only thing keeping her from support is that she cant heal which tbh is a weak argument. Alot of games have supports that provide alot of utility that dont heal. I repeat just becuase a support cant heal doesnt mean the character isnt a support. Also rein would be a support if he had about 200 hp, since he wouldnt be able to tank effectively… Simple really. Lets not forget symm was a support for a long time, and i dare say she basically has all the same abilities at her disposal(technically). Having a more diverse support pool is healthy for the game. Having supports that dont heal and just provide utility when the team has enough self peel is a good thing. It makes no sense to put such a utility ridden character in a damage carry role.
More discussion about semantics, but when you claim in one sentence that supports are not defined by healing, and then later basically state that a tank is defined by a large HP pool, then I’m really having difficulties taking you seriously.
In the current version of Overwatch support is defined by characters who have healing capabilities - maybe not in other games, maybe not in earlier versions of Overwatch, but in the game as it is right now. There’s a reason they removed Symm from “Support” and put her in the DPS category, because contrary to what you say, no, she does not have the kit to allow for a single healer. That is not to say single healing never works, but it sure makes the game more difficult to play and requires other factors to be sufficient, and having a Symmetra or not isn’t necessarily one of those factors.
Again, there are multiple DPS characters who don’t exist for fragging alone, but have other capabilities allowing them to support their team: hacking, walls, peeling abilities, stuns, … That’s all support in some way. But those characters are still DPS, mainly because they don’t have the kit to act entirely as a tank or as a support. It’s also just about semantics. If they actually renamed the “support” role to “healing” we wouldn’t even be having this discussion. I don’t understand the need to complicate things.
Symm is a perfectly capable DPS for a 2-2-2 lock - maybe not in all situations and combinations, but that goes for every role (Lucio-Zen or Road-D.Va comes to mind).