I don’t think 2-2-2 should be a forced hard lock. It should allow for some flexibility.
I think a better solution would be to pick one or more roles (or perhaps maximum 2 roles to prevent abusing the system), then the game would match you into a lobby with players that are playing the other roles but in a way that favours 2-2-2.
So, for instance you would have two players who flex support and tank, one player that plays DPS only, one plays tank only and one who plays support/DPS flex. Or something along those lines that would ensure having at least 2 people who selected each of the 3 roles, so that there is a fair variation in the game.
Think of this like selecting a main role and a secondary role, where the secondary isn’t locked. And when you queue into the game, the icon on your character can show what role the game placed you into as a main (which can be regardless of your main/secondary choice depending on the state of the queue and what was in demand). That or the icon could be half-half, like a half shield with a bullet next to it, or the flex icon.
I also think there should be two queuing systems for solo and grouped in Competitive, which could benefit the problem with 6-stacks being queued with duos. Understandably this would make the queue times longer, but think it would be beneficial in the long run.
Or at least have QP have a soft lock at most. Because playing a game only for “Arcade” is not something I paid for.
No reason to start arguing, it is on the PTR and it is going in game now. Stop whining and start testing it out, you might find it amazing like many others are currently.
And please, if you paid for the QP and is mad that it is now a seperate mess in Arcade, no one gives a damn TBH, either it will have players or it won´t if no one queues into it, then no one likes, except you. Move on, get some friends in OW to play with.
I’m just making a suggestion for a system that I think would be less restrictive but still well structured. I have played the PTR to test it out and I’m giving Blizzard and the community my feedback, which is the whole point of PTR- test and feedback.
To be completely honest with you, I think a hard lock is more beneficial for Solo Queue than for Duo/Trio/Group Queue, and that it could have a soft lock just for groups that would still enforce (or rather encourage) a 2-2-2 based team composition. I don’t play the game alone because I prefer to play and communicate with my friends, it makes it a lot more fun. Plus even this change isn’t going to make everyone use voice chat more than they do at the moment, and I like to verbally talk through the game.
Plus when playing with friends, we can flex with some roles or characters, so often we like to switch. For example, I’m a support main, my friend is a great McCree. Let’s say I’m playing Zen. We need a Pharah, I play a pretty decent Pharah and he is a really good Ana, he switches to that support (from previously being McCree), and I switch to Pharah. The game continues to have a healer and a DPS. Same thing I do with my other friend who can flex tank/support/doomfist reliably.
I just think the hard lock is ridiculous at the state of the game currently- A hard lock is EXTREMELY limiting to tank and support players’ hero pools. You have 7 tanks, 7 healers and a whopping 16 DPS. This makes the game stale for tanks and supports (especially considering how unreliable Hammond is below Diamond).
Although understandably 2-2-2 could bring more opportunities for Blizzard to release more tank/support heroes without messing up the balance.
My suggestion is DEBUFF system instead of the LOCK.
It activates when certain roles are active outside of the spawnroom multiple times!
To counter the GOATS meta for example like this:
If the game detects 3tank roles: no problem, but if it then detects a second role 3 times: Health DEBUFF (or something else)
Or basicly if it detects one of the three classes missing in the game (when alll 6 players are outside the spawn), it will give a debuff, so that at least ONE of EACH Role is in the game.
That way the freedom of comps is still given besides GOATS, and it will also help the team group up, when switching heroes to counter the enemies, because otherwise every member of the team gets a debuff if they pick something that’s to unbalanced.
No Role Lock, but a debuff if one class if missing in the game.
Trolls will still exist and use it to sabotage the game, but they will allways exist and they will do the same with the 2-2-2 role lock (e.g. pick healer but do dps)
That’s an interesting system but I’m not sure how they would implement that in a way that works without sabotaging a game. Especially if it always aimed for 2-2-2 (if it aimed for one of each role as you said, it would work better yeah) because imagine they pick 4-1-1 or 1-2-3 and that works, but the game punishes you for it, then it’s a problem.
I do agree it would make people play together a bit more, but then might create a more toxic environment as trolls could have the power to throw the games harder than they do.
I also wonder how Blizzard would balance the heroes if they were to test a debuff system like that.
I totally aggree with you.
Its on the TEST servers, so players test it and might come up with feedback and solutions that might even work.
The lock is mainly implemented because there isnt another way to secure the 2-2-2 otherwise.
But that limit on one role it too heavy. In a group of friends everyone has different heroes he/she likes and plays well. Now some enemy comps you switch around with friends to be the best counter to them.
With the new lock, you might still pick these heroes, but not the best of your friends with that heros then plays it, because it’s locked on a different role.
This whole posts just shows your inability/refusal to actually learn more parts of the game and improve. Nearly every point you made can be summarized in, well now you need to try more choices and heroes.
I dont say its perfect, and I also said that trolls will use it to sabotage the game, but so they do now and will with the new role lock.
If they want to troll, they will troll.
But the best way would be a one-of-each-role rule. If one role is missing there will be a debuff. But you can make this way more complex than it sounds now.
As I said earlier, it only applies to heroes out of the spawn and only when all 6 are out.
That way you have the chance to switch heroes in game without giving your outside fighting teammates a debuff just because you switching heroes with another member.
That way you still have the possibility to go 1-1-4 or 1-2-3, together with 2-2-2.
And you could switch midgame the roles.
Maybe only give the last player to pick the hero which does not fit one of the three comps a debuff or visual disadvantage.
That way only one player would be forced to switch/fill/flex.
But if everyone is in chat at the beginning of the match, this could easily be avoided.
So if the game is running, and a troll decides to troll, picks the 5 dps and leaves the spawn, his/her whole screen will blink red or something.
A fair and annoying warning that he/she needs to change, or wait in the spawn until another player is there as well and changes to a different role to compensate that change.
I have tried more choices and more heroes, and I have what I like to play and what I don’t. Plus isn’t that sentence contradictory since you know, as the live game is currently you have more choices and variety in the game than in a 2-2-2. And what if I actually enjoy playing tank and support roles but have a very limited hero pool so it ends up that only so many strats/ways to play are available. Or are you suggesting I drop that to learn every single DPS to a good enough level to play competitively? Either way I’m talking WITHIN a match why is it that if I queue for tank or support I only get to play a small handfull of heroes? I’m a good Orisa and Zarya, an average Winston and Rein and I don’t like playing Hammond (I really cannot play him, and I don’t like the way he’s played I prefer to pick something else personally and leave him to others). You shouldn’t have to be proficient at every hero if that is what you’re suggesting.
Even in the OWL you have players who main 1-3 characters, a 2-2-2 wouldn’t stop that from being a thing. People have their favourite heroes, and heroes they’re better at. A hard lock remains limiting considering the hero pools.
You clearly have not read my comments, and if you’re just here to shut down any discussion without adding anything to the conversation, feel free to ignore this thread.
Except it was 6 people having 30 characters now it is 7 for 2, 7 for 2 and 16 for 2. The variery is bigger than before for dps and not even so, many heroes don´t need practice to be effective. 2-2-2 and role queue is the best thing to happen to the game since 1x hero limit. Everyone is loving it on the PTR currently, way less toxic behaviour and in general way more “Do you play x hero”.
That is because at the highest level of play some heroes are so extremely skillfull, that keeping a widow and a tracer at peak performance, while having a big rooster of usefull heroes too is impossible, that is why the whole “specialists”, is a thing.
Also, what is there to discuss, everyone wanted this feature it is the number one most asked for feature has been hinted for a year now and it is here to stay, whether you like it or not, that is the way it is.
Yeah, that could work. Again, I’m finding it hard to imagine how it would actually play out. Maybe they could have a debuff system alongside a queue that would take the roles you play most in competitive games and match you with people who have higher comp play times in other roles. Or something like you select the roles you queue for, the matchmaking puts you with other roles, no hard lock, WITH the debuff. Which could help that last player pick issue you stated, too.
The debuff could be the capture point takes longer to secure, or the payload is much slower.
Actually now that I think about it, how about they have a hard lock but with a fill/flex option? And allow up to 2 fill/flex players in each match. Or done in a way that always secures a minimum of 1-1-1.
So all DPS players can play 16 heroes, Tank and Support, who mostly do both each, and some DPS are now limited to 7 heroes?
How fair is that?
I have met a lot of DPS players who have never played any Support or Tank. Of course it doesnt concerns them in their freedom of hero picks, because they still have their 16 heroes.
Support and Tank players mostly have a wide range of playable heroes from these roles, and in addition some DPS heroes.
Now they are getting cut down to just one role with 7 heroes. They wont queue as DPS because there are more players better with more dps heroes than they are.
Sounds to me like the worst decision from the devs in case of hero selection yet.
The DPS players aren’t affected at all, its the players base that allways supported a random group of strangers with the “burden” or healing or tanking, because the dps players mostly didnt want to, are the ones that get punished.
Yes, but what about variety for people who like tank and support? Should they be left in the dirt? No.
Again, as I said in a previous post- 2-2-2 could bring about more opportunities for tank and support heroes to be created since it’s hard to have a lot of them in a basically unlimited team composition selection due to how much impact they have on games. But at the moment, it’s very restrictive and will easily make the game less enjoyable for those who prefer non-DPS roles.
If you’re playing in competitive, yes they do. A player with 30 hours on Junkrat is much better than a player with 10 hours on Junkrat. Same goes for other low skill heroes like Mercy and Moira. Positioning and mechanics with the abilities, ability management, you need to practice those things if you want to improve and become a better player, and by extension win more games.
Yes, but to a somewhat lesser extent, the “mastery” or maining of heroes does exist in lower ranks and does have some impact.
Of course people are loving the new 2-2-2, the game had no real matchmaking system before it, there was no role queue whatsoever! Despite LFG, because that place was full of people who were tilted from solo queuing and just went in there and ended up throwing most of the time (so that was a community issue).
But that doesn’t mean it’s a perfect system for the game and that we should “just be happy with it”. We should discuss alternatives and present them to Blizzard and to each other, to test out what works best!
How you technically implement it is the key reason why the hard role lock. They can’t controle it otherwise.
A hard lock is allways necessary with my knowlegde if you want to guarantee certain roles.
The debuff/penalty system can’t guarantee it, but it also doesnt limit the game that much either.
Unless they go on QP to learn some, same for DPS players who want to try out tank/support. But even still, I completely agree- people should be given at least somewhat equal opportunities and options.
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