The state of Reinhardt

General Discussion
1

Hello,

today i want to talk of the state of Reinhardt.
Fist I wanna say I m no Pro but a Plat / Diamond player on Console and this is only my feeling why Rein is in a bad spot right now.
If I miss anything or say something wrong feel free to correct me.

Reinhardt is right now the only real frontline main tank in the game. What I mean by that is that he needs to be in the enemys face to to damage and contest.
Heroes like Sigma and Orisa have the convenience of ranged damage and team contribution, while Rheins only ranged ability is a easy to dodge ability (firestrike) on a medium to long cooldown.

Reinhardts survivability (or effectivity) at least in my rank is often determined by a good Zarya or a support pumping you full of heals.
Another negative thing is that he can only protect the team or do damage at once and due to his massive hitbox as soon as you decide to do dmg you melt.
In my opinion the biggest issue right now is the cc and burst damage in the game.
Its not uncommon to get flashbanged, anti granded, punched , slept , shield bashed, whipshot, booped,hacked and so on and the steadfest passive does almost nothing. Almost all new added heroes have some form of easy to apply crowd control which Rein is the biggest victim of. Tbh I dont have anything against a skillfull use of a cc ability like sleep dart but right now there is to much cc in the game.
The other thing is, that almost all of the new added character have a ability to counter Rein play, either as escape for themself or to stop you completly.
(I’m looking at you immortality field.)
In this regard, heroes who can keep their distance, or have a ability to cancel CC will always be more viable.
Right now anytime I play Reinhardt I feel more like a punching bag, than in the beginning of Overwatch where you were a hard to overcome obstacle in close range combat.
A change which also didnt help was the shatter nerf, which took away Reins few opportunities to “pop off”.
I feel if you get hit by shatter you or your tank got outplayed and punished for it, similar to Anas sleep dart, now when you shatter the time to kill and punish is almost to short to do anything significant.

My idead would be:
revert shatter back to its original design (if Rein stays to strong, revert his shield and dmg buff back)
Change hiss passive steadfest, so he gets a 50 % reduce to all forms off cc , (including all stuns )
Change firestrike to have 2 charges and maybe tune down its dmg.

Im not a native english speaker , so if you find any errors you can keep them :smiley:

2

I don’t disagree with those changes. But first they need to make Lucio relevant again.

Nerf Baps immo field into the group. Make it so all supports cab either use some utility or heal, not do everything at once (Bap Brig). Then see where reins at.

But more importantly. Nerf Echo. She is the single hero now making tanks more irrelevant than ever

A general damage nerf across the game might be better for the game than a shield buff for rein.

I’d prefer less shields (even as a rein main). But the amount of dmg in the game is what is making double shield so strong.

1 Like
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the issue with reinhardt is that he’s the only real “tank” who takes damage to do what he does.
as for other tanks they don’t have to expose themselves in order to get value.

all the dive tanks can choose and pick where they want to fight
and everybody else sits away from the fight throwing stuff out.

reinhardt modes of playing is either block himself into the face of the enemy to start to take damage to himself in exchange for dealing damage or walk to the objective where people have to force him off it if they want to win.

both of those choices are terrible with the amount of range damage output and mobility that exists in the game and other options that are just more value for less effort.

as for tanks in general, they have had a raw deal since the inception of the game, but basically all the tanks have incredible abilities at the cost of being a main target and that will never change.

4

Sigma has limited range. In fact of all the tanks Orisa is the only one who can really hold her own in long-range fights.

Rheins only ranged ability is a easy to dodge ability (firestrike)

That’s why he has (had) a powerful shield, so he can close the gap.

Another negative thing is that he can only protect the team or do damage at once and due to his massive hitbox

Yes but he also does a lot more damage and has a stronger shield.

as soon as you decide to do dmg you melt.

Knowing when to lower your shield is the key to Rein play. You can hardly complain about the game requiring strategy.

In my opinion the biggest issue right now is the cc and burst damage in the game.

And that’s your opinion is it? Not someone else’s that you copied to explain why you aren’t doing so well?

Its not uncommon to get flashbanged, anti granded, punched , slept , shield bashed, whipshot, booped,hacked and so on and the steadfest passive does almost nothing.

Why would you allow any of those abilities to go off? A lot of people seem to think “there’s nothing you can do about CC”, but there is: it’s called not getting hit by it, which is the same counterplay for everything in the game.

right now there is to much cc in the game.

At the very most there are four possible sources of CC in any game: two supports (Ana and Brigitte) and two DPS. Of those only two are actually viable in competitive: Ana and McCree. All of their CC can be blocked by your shield, so you’re the last person who should be worried about it.

immortality field

It’s had its health nerfed multiple times, if you can’t hit a stationary target then that’s not the game’s fault.

the shatter nerf

2.5 seconds of full stun is extremely generous. Reinhardt alone can do 204 damage to multiple targets (hammer only). It sets up for a charge pin as well, and interrupts enemy ults. This is one of the main reasons Rein has nearly always been the top tank.

Change firestrike to have 2 charges and maybe tune down its dmg.

Firestrike should light enemies on fire. It’s really weird that it doesn’t.

5

first they need to make Lucio relevant again.

Try swapping to heal for once?

Nerf Baps immo field into the group.

Like I told the other guy, if you can’t hit a stationary target then you don’t really have room to complain.

Make it so all supports cab either use some utility or heal, not do everything at once (Bap Brig).

If they’re so powerful why don’t you play them and climb? Because they’re not, Brig is the weakest support by far and Baptiste is very well balanced.

Nerf Echo.

Echo has a 2% pick rate… you even complained about Lúcio not being relevant and he’s at 3%!

She is the single hero now making tanks more irrelevant than ever

She’s a tank buster… why would they make her worse at her role?

A general damage nerf across the game might be better

And then they should nerf shield and heals again just to make absolutely sure that no one is having any fun.

I’d prefer less shields

Go away.

6

he’s the only real “tank” who takes damage to do what he does.
as for other tanks they don’t have to expose themselves in order to get value.

Which explains why he’s the least picked tank and no one pl- oh wait, he’s the most picked by far.

all the dive tanks can choose and pick where they want to fight

That’s what a dive tank is.

everybody else sits away from the fight throwing stuff out

Except Sigma, Zarya, Roadhog and Wrecking Ball (literally all the other tanks except Orisa) who fight in close range.

7

Brig is the weakest support? That certainly is an interesting take lol.

And where you getting pick rates from? (Noting pick rates are mostly irrelevant, most people don’t pay enough attention to know whats what and just blindly play what they play, even had someone tell me Moira was the strongest support. Had to laugh) . Also, most of the sites with pick rates can only look at specific profiles.

Imagine thinking because you can shoot the immortality field, that makes it “balanced”. It being on a short cooldown to negate nearly every ultimate and ability if played correctly is an issue. When skill is beaten by a brainless button press, then that needs to be carefully reviewed.

Also, how can I swap to heal if I’m playing role queue and queuing as tank? lol (I find open queue is utter garbage (personal opinion)).

8

He is the most picked in bronze - plat, afterwards he falls of hard from the pickrate and gets replaced by Sigma and Hog.
The reason is, in lower elos (where im ) people feed very much and rhein can get value.
And no you can get hit by 6 sorts of cc, Orisa, Sigma, Brig , Ana , Mccree, Punch by doom, and many more, its not to uncommon to play against 6 heroes who have cc and Rhein is the one punished most by it.
Also the problem isnt shooting immortallity, the problem is that you need to foucs it and cant do anything meanwhile, it is a "i made a error where i should get punished out of jail free card. I think it shouldnt be a normal ability but an ultimate. (It needs a buff for that then)

9

In my experience, he’s is an absolute monster vs people in this rating, as they generally don’t understand how to properly counterplay a good Reinhardt setup.
Usually, they mirror or get run over.

Front line doesn’t mean “in the enemies face”.
It simply means you are the furthest most forward, non-flanker on your team.
A front line tank generally serves to be the focus of enemy fire to keep the rest of the team safe or to simply control space so the enemies can’t easily push your backline.
Most of the other tanks are also played in this way.

For example:
Orisa is usually played with other long-range/spam heroes that can stand even further away. The general idea is to burn all the enemy resources before they can get close or achieve any big value plays.

Winston can use jumps and shields strategically to take away pressure from your backline, giving them room to do what they want.
He’s good at using dives/soft-dives to contest/take space.
This space also allows him more options, while taking away options from the enemy.

While Zarya is not really super effective at drawing a lot of attention away from the rest of the team, she usually works rather closely with another front line tank.
She enables them to be more aggressive and better take space for the team.
She can put massive pressure on the enemy front line, and also use her bubbles to keep the backline relatively safe.

Both Sigma and Roadhog would usually want to hold off-angles and flank routes, which can punish the enemy from pushing forward.
Played like this, it’s not the front line in the sense they are grouped up in the choke to face tank.
But they still stand further forward and serve to make it less favorable for the enemy to push, which in turn also protects the backline indirectly.

It sounds like you need to utilize natural cover more in your gameplay.
I know you have a big shield and that gives some false sense that natural cover isn’t as important, but this couldn’t be further from the truth.
You still want you to use natural cover a lot, and mainly use shields to path in-between positions.
The natural cover gives you a place to relax and recharge your shield, cooldowns, and get healed.

I agree that too many CC’s can be an issue, but this is not Reinhardt-specific.
They are mainly there to counter high mobility, and this is where they are the most effective.

Reinhardt being punished by this is one of the more unfortunate side effects of their attempt at reducing the effectiveness of mobility heroes.
This is why he got the Steadfast passive in the first place.
The CC’s this doesn’t reduce are mostly ones he can block using his shield, with the exception of some ults and DF punch.

On the other hand, in the state Reinhardt is in atm, if he couldn’t get punished by stuff like this, he’d be practically unstoppable.

These examples are not really Reinhardt counters, it’s simply basic survivability.

As for the immortality field, Reinhardt has cleave damage and can damage both the people inside while destroying it at the same time, leaving them low hp to finish off once it’s gone.
The only counterplay use it has vs Reinhardt is to save people from a pin.
Everything else can be worked around.

10

reinhardt is very straightforward so he’s easy to understand for the player and for their team, but that also makes him easy to fight for the enemy.

the difference between every other tank and dive tanks is the ability to disengage a fight which makes them imo op in comparison.

the other tanks don’t want to be too close unless they are winning hard allready, there’s a difference between fighting and clean up.