This is what is wrong with Overwatch

Competitive Discussion
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Playing competitive is near impossible for me at the moment; I think all of us ran into leavers, who are either trolls who leave a winning game or just rage quitters who don’t even try to put up a fight, or into afk players who stay idle during the match at least once.

This happens to me every second game, so climbing in rating has been impossible. Despite winning all games where it is actually 6 vs 6 players, I lose every second game where it is 5 vs 6 due to the aforementioned reasons.

Today something happened which topped it all off:

h**ps://i.imgur.com/zHzzmIL.png

…and this is just the tip of the iceberg.

We need you to do something about this Blizzard. I’d recommend bots to replace leavers, so that the team at least has some chance to fight. Right now it’s more than unfair that 5 people always get punished for 1 person who has a screw loose, so to say.

And I’d like an actual button to report idling players, with investigations and bans taking action. If somebody else has other constructive ideas, feel free to voice them. :slight_smile:

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if leavers are that common in your matches, you might be the reason for it.

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This is possibly the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on the internet. And people, this is the internet.

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Bots aren’t exactly smart, just end the match so everyone can get into a real game.

I’d like an actual button to report idling players

They should cut the AFK timer in half at least (and maybe add a fix for Bastion while they’re at it).

If somebody else has other constructive ideas, feel free to voice them

General

  • Add a “negative endorsement”, and match players in brackets based on their level.
  • Add a player review system for reports using the replay system.
  • Make the PVE event modes available at all times, since this is the only mode that’s fun more than 50% of the time. Oh wait that’s just OW2 -_-

Competitive

  • End matches when a player leaves.
  • Rework the SR system.
  • Raise the minimum level in competitive from 25 to 200.
  • Require secondary authentication to play in Competitive games.
  • Drop role lock, hero pools, map pools, and all other mandatory handicaps.
  • Remove SR penalties for bad behaviour, all that does is put new players and bad players together. If a player has done something to deserve a penalty, a temporary ban from Competitive is the correct response.

Tutorial

  • Create a new mandatory tutorial that explains the game’s basic mechanics to players. This should include at least one member of each of the 5 roles, not just Soldier: 76. I’d suggest including Reinhardt, Roadhog, McCree, Pharah, Mercy & Brigitte.
  • Create bots for every hero that are vaguely competent, and allow them to be spawned into the training room.
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This would be abused.

People do come back sometimes. It’s not all rage-quitters. Not to mention, many people have won 5v6 games.
I’d rather take my chances with an uphill battle rather than giving up.

I take it this stems from bitterness about your teammates?
You don’t need 200 levels of experience. Some people are just not good at this or games in general.
Don’t make this game harder on new players than it already is by gatekeeping.

I would like this.
Tie your account to an ID (Bank-ID phone app would work).
We could probably get rid of a lot of cheaters that way, assuming they could track and ban players based on the ID they use.

CS:GO tried something similar but with phone numbers. Unfortunately it’s cheap and easy to get those…

Any suggestion on how they ought to do it?
You get points for winning and you lose them when you lose.
It’s simple but good.
They tried with the “personal performance” thing but it just doesn’t work. It’s not intelligent enough to judge the value a player had during a game.

I don’t think they can at this point. They’ve shot themselves in the foot real bad and made balancing in this game a nightmare.
Not to mention, Role Queue isn’t all bad. Having different SR for different roles is fantastic.
It’s been said many times but just because you’re a good X doesn’t mean you can do Y just as well.

And while I think Hero Pools is the lazy man’s way of making sure there are more than 1-2 setups being played, I will say that I don’t mind it too much.
It’s actually been kinda fun to play with certain heroes being gone.

Hero bans are very common in MOBA games, and Overwatch is, as much as I hate it, a part MOBA game.

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This would be abused.

How would it be abused, and why?

People do come back sometimes.

I’m not saying the game should end immediately, but if they leave for more than 30 seconds it’s a catastrophic loss on their team.

I’d rather take my chances with an uphill battle

Too bad?

I take it this stems from bitterness about your teammates?

This stems from my last comp match where a player didn’t know how to heal with Lúcio… a hero who heals without pressing any buttons. The tutorial and a few dozen matches does not prepare you for comp. I wouldn’t mind if I wasn’t being punished for their failure.

You don’t need 200 levels of experience

25 levels is about 130 games (about 18 hours played), this is observably insufficient to teach someone the game’s basic principles. It would help with smurfs, too.

Some people are just not good at this

And they can get better by practice, but not in comp matches.

Any suggestion on how they ought to do it?

SR should be based on how you perform, not on your team. If you gain SR it should be because you did well, not because you got carried. If you lose SR it should be because you did badly, not because your team was throwing. This could help to fix a lot of the toxicity in the game, since you won’t be being penalised for your teammates anymore.

It’s not intelligent enough to judge the value a player had during a game.

All it needs to do is look at the right statistics. If GM players do more damage, then players that do more damage should gain SR, and players that do less should lose it. Win-rate doesn’t mean anything when there are 12 players involved. If it were a 1v1 that would make sense, but it isn’t. If I get 1 elim as Widow and my team’s Mercy gets 3, I am clearly a garbage player who needs to lose SR, whether we win or not.

made balancing in this game a nightmare.

I’m gonna make a post about a hypothetical patch, I think it’s more than possible to fix the balance… but just because it’s possible doesn’t mean it’s likely.

Having different SR for different roles is fantastic.

But is it worth it to be unable to flex? I don’t think so. Plus people throw on their off-roles.

It’s been said many times but just because you’re a good X doesn’t mean you can do Y just as well.

But what does that have to do with roles? An Ana player is going to have an easier time on Widowmaker than on Lúcio.

It’s actually been kinda fun to play with certain heroes being gone.

It’s fine if they want to add an arcade mode, but this isn’t real Overwatch.

Hero bans are very common in MOBA games

Yes but most mobas have 100+ heroes, and they don’t deliberately ban all the counters of a single hero just to see what happens. Overwatch is not a MOBA. Reinhardt is not interchangeable with Roadhog.

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I guess the fears are the same why in most modern platforms other than reddit and facebook downvotes and dislikes are consistently removed in order to “fight negativity”, including this forum btw, you remember the times when we were able to downvote stuff here? Downvoting is allegedly abused for bullying people, which I do not agree with. If you say stupid **it you deserve downvotes.

However I can imagine that its a valid concern for ingame endorsements, where players would get downvoted by other entitled players for not obeying their heropick orders, disliking their voice etc… Negative endorsements could potentially become the new false reporting.

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The same way people abuse the report system. They will do it out of spite.
But maybe I misunderstood you when I thought you wanted to match players around their endorsement levels?
Were you referring to the level of their account?

I don’t think that’s a good idea though. Levels does not have to mean that you’re good at the game.
I find that hours played in the last week/month is more important than hours played in total when it comes to game sense and skill.

You can leave after a minute or two. I don’t remember exactly.
30 seconds is often not enough to give a player the time to reboot their game and get back into the match.

Yes it can cost you the game but at least give the person who has a genuine crash a chance at coming back and fight for that win with their team.

It’s more likely that they chose not to as opposed to not knowing how.
But it could be somebody’s first time playing Lucio in which case, yes maybe they didn’t know.
But then it’d make more sense to have that tutorial you talk about rather than getting 200 levels.
You could be level 999 and still have 0 games played with most heroes.

  • But how do you measure good communication? They can truly carry in this game.
  • How would you measure a tank constantly pressuring a Widowmaker rendering her practically useless?
  • You can sink hundreds of damage into a tank but dealing 200 damage to a support could be the key to victory.
  • What if you’re the one the enemy team constantly has to pressure because you destroy them otherwise. So your focus is simply on not dying, forcing them to chase after you whilst the rest of your team cleans up.
  • How would spawn-camping a Zen be measured well? You get 1 elim here and there and not much damage. But what the stats don’t tell you is that you’re preventing him from saving his entire team with his ult.

They’re just some examples that I don’t think their AI can take into account well enough.

But surely you can agree that Tanking, Healing and DPS:ing play differently no?
Plenty of people perform worse/better on different roles.
But indeed it’s true that heroes even in the same category play differently. You can be good with McCree but have no idea how to lead your shots with Hanzo.

I still prefer Role Queue over the random chaos we had before though.
Where people reluctantly “gave in” to play a role that the team needed. It only led to more toxicity.

But that’s where placement games come into play. That and SR.

While I feel your pain. This really isn’t the game to play if you’re not willing to both win and lose because of your team.

No but there are other tanks with shields such as Orissa and Sigma. They play differently yes, but that’s the point with the bans.
I don’t want to defend hero pools too much, trust me. I think it’s lazy and cheap. And there will for sure be times where I simply won’t feel like playing because of the bans.
I was just trying to find something about it that isn’t bad. Because most things aren’t all good or bad.

I will take a proper rework/balance patch over the hero pool any day. I just don’t think they can do it at this point. At least not in the way I imagine it. I think it’d hurt the game too much with such drastic changes.
Maybe your idea is better.

What hero does this apply to? I’ve heard lots of complaint about Pharah recently even though Ashe is available.

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One false report is a drop in the bucket. You’re not going to get banned just because someone was upset with you… I’m proof of that, lots of my teammates flame me and I’m still alive.

I misunderstood you when I thought you wanted to match players around their endorsement levels?

No, I want to match people based on the 1-5 endorsement number. If you have level 5, why are you being saddled with level 1s who behave like garbage? Put all the bad players in a pool together so the rest of the players can have a good time.

30 seconds is often not enough to give a player the time to reboot their game and get back into the match.

30 seconds of a 5v6 is the length of time after which it becomes unlikely that you can recover. The reason for you leaving has no effect on the damage you do to the match.

  • Wins would still matter in the game, they just wouldn’t guarantee a gain in SR. Maybe you get +5SR for winning, ±20 for personal performance.
  • The Widowmaker would go down, which means the tank is relatively better.
  • That’s why eliminations are the priority, not damage.
  • Spawn camping a support might help for a single teamfight, but you’re forcing your team to fight with a man down while you’re gone. Assuming you’re a DPS that’s a lot more important than the Zenyatta.

But surely you can agree that Tanking, Healing and DPS:ing play differently no?

Most tank players don’t even know what tanks are supposed to do, I don’t think that people need to know that as much as they need to know basic mechanics like aiming, ability use and positioning. For example, Zarya’s moment-to-moment gameplay is bubbling allies to get charge, and then getting kills. That’s closer to what a DPS does than to what Orisa does.

I still prefer Role Queue over the random chaos we had before though.

We didn’t have chaos, the LFG tool was added so you could build your own team. People decided not to use it, and demanded a mandatory system.

that’s where placement games come into play

Placements are not practice. Placements aren’t even special, they’re standard comp matches.

This really isn’t the game to play if you’re not willing to both win and lose because of your team.

Why would anyone enjoy losing? If you enjoy losing why not just leave the match immediately?

I’ve heard lots of complaint about Pharah recently even though Ashe is available.

Ashe doesn’t do enough damage to punish a Pharmercy. Realistically you’re gonna want a McCree or a Widow. If they had banned Mercy at the same time this wouldn’t be as much of a problem, but Pharmercy was ALREADY powerful, and it’s basically god-tier now. They removed D.va too, so tanks are just walking ult charge with no way to counter it at all. Best case you play Orisa and hope your DPS don’t go Junkrat-Tracer to derank.

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Then you’d compare that to everyone playing the same hero yes? Because some heroes are much better at both dealing damage and taging enemies for elims.

She may very well survive though. That’s what I mean. But you can still prevent her from sniping your team and get lots of value from it but little to no elims.

I don’t think it’s a good idea. People will simply chase after the algorithm rather than doing what’s best. Which may not always be the same.

Right but you do them, get placed based on your games and then you work your way up/down depending on your skill.
I don’t see the issue here.
If you’re rank X and you’re playing with others at rank X then that’s fair no? They got there just as you did, by winning games.

I never said that.
What I’m saying is that this game is very much dependant on teamwork. You’re rarely the only reason you won or lost a game.

I think she’s OK. I’ve been doing fine. You just have to really land those shots so it’s tough.
The hipfire into ADS-shot combo puts a lot of instant pressure on them.
It does depend on the map though. Some they’re just too far away for you to do any damage. But that goes for everyone other than Widowmaker.

If you’re sneaky you can even dynamite them both!

OK.
Would you have seperate endorsement levels for Comp and Casual play? Because you can really farm that endorsement level by spamming Arcade/QP games.
Whereas in Comp where people get salty and angry they would most definitely abuse it and try to de-rank you. Heck they might to do it everywhere if given the opportunity.

Not to mention how many people I see behaving like garbage even at endorsement 3 and higher. It doesn’t really mean anything.
It’s mostly just something people throw out for the extra EXP.

Right. You likely lose one fight.
Then you regroup and try again.

But we will likely have to agree to disagree. I think you’re a little bit extreme on certain points but I’m very much digging the idea behind binding your account to an ID.
+1

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its not the dumbest thing it is what it is, dude.
If you get disproportionally many leavers in your matches, you might be a cause of it, because there is no other explanation why people would leave a lot WITH YOU IN THERE!

I don’t leave very often, if I do its because of my team getting rekt and there is no effort of communication or cooperation within the team to remedy the situation in some way, nobody on voice or some *sswipe openly raging/trolling - then at some point I’ll just Alt+F4 outta there, wait for my tempban to expire and move on. But other than that, I don’t get many of other leavers in my games, not at all.

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Jesus dude just win that 5v6. You really never win or draw a 5v6 match? I see what kind of teammate you’re. Talk with your team, bring positivity and hope, organise a comp that can works. IMO even when I lose it feel great that your team try so hard to win, the majority of my OW friends comes from those match.
And in all honesty, you lose a game because of a leaver? So what? Go agane and pop off in the next 2,problem solved. How long since you don’t do a 6k my friend?
Also if you perform well when you lose you don’t lose much SR and if you perform well when you win you gain more SR. With a 50% win ratio with good performance you rank up, if you don’t you perform poorly, simple.

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Option to surrender.
Solo rank people.

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We all should aim to play games to play the game. And although team related we shouldn’t be placed in a position by the game where we constantly need to assess team morale and worse yet - act as the team psychiatrist.
I fully understand what you are getting at but this is one of the biggest grinds within the game and it isn’t even part of the game. Dealing with a community brow beaten into toxicity.

I got asked if I was the issue in the forums, if I was not having fun. And the truth is no. I’m not. But I really want to. Furthermore I have now not played in a week. But don’t you see, THIS, having to act as a councillor in something you do for fun is utter bullcrap.

I also had it floated to me that toxicity in this game should be just accepted. To this I also say no. Communities live and die by their core game and the truth is the core game was never strong enough to sustain a strong, peaceful community.

Phantasy Star. Warframe. Rocket League. Other games by other studios in all different genres get it right. Blizzard just seem to attract people to their games and in time turn them into toxic man babies and the structure of games and how products are maintained after release only go on to keep perpetuating this nonsense.

Saying we should be the conscious of the community in a self deprecating mess will only serve to damage the person trying to do it. And that’s a damned shame.

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