How can a comp of 3 tanks and 3 supports burn a comp with 2150 hp +2000hp shield + matrix + bubbles + random armors?
What’s the point on having a damage class if tanks/supports deal more damage?
Zenyatta: he can be considered a dps who can heal, he can outdamage you more than the average dps and he is “SUPPORT”, take for the example the most tabky tank, Roadhog l, do you know what is his counter? ZENYATTA, because with his dmg orbs and discord he can easily destroy 900 hp and he is a SUPPORT
Zarya: We got 16 damage heroes, do you know where Zarya is in damage ranking? Second, only after bastion & torbjorn (considered troll picks for their low mobility). How can a TANK with 400hp, personal bubbles outdamage tanks more than ALL damage heroes class? It makes no sense
D. Va, she outdamages half the damage class and her matrix counters all high damage heroes, is it fair?
Moira and Mercy are in a bad spot because they got bad ultimates and their healing is troll compared to the offsupports ulting every 40 seconds on that comp
How to fix:
Nerf Zen, Zarya and D. Va
Buff Mercy & Moira with 2 decent ultimates
higher time to build ultimates so people will need main supports to survive in hard fight
Because actually having 3 offsupports like zenyatta brig and lucio gives to you the necessary healing + a lot of damage, buffing moira/Mercy making them MUST PICKS would destroy goats because moira + 2 offsupports wouldn’t grant enough damage and we would have 1 main healer 1offsupport and at least 1 damage hero
Zenyatta and Lucio ult can save your team by certain death, Mercy and Moira’s ult are too bad (and 90% you can heal only one target with both), that’s why that triple support is overpowered
Zen does not counter Roadhog unless your name is JJonak. Ana counters Roadhog with sleep + nade.
If you’re dumb enough to charge the Zarya, you’ll die. Discipline yourself to not shoot the bubble, which then keeps her dps low, which in turn also means she charges her ult slower
Outdamages half the DPS roster? Are you standing right in front of her and trying to face-tank or something? Her matrix has a 2 second cooldown, and beams ignore it.
Mercy is perfectly fine, as is Moira. Moira’s ult goes through shields and her healing is certainly not troll in comparison. Buffing them to make them must picks? are you just a salty mercy fan boy who wants her back to a must pick or something? You do realise what a must pick means right? Both of them would be a required pick 100% of the time no matter what.
False.
Burst heal is the problem. Not HoT.
Burst heal from moira/ana/brig made Tank comp easy and ruin all no-burst dps gameplay.
Burst heal should be remove from the game, before Ana update, the 1st one, we never saw a Tank meta cuz it was not possible. Also all other no-burst DPS was not trash cuz their dmg was not negate that easily.
But ppl can’t understand that and ask for useless nerf who are not gonna change anything…
I mean there are several issues with goats viability, Powerfull ults on tanks, defensives getting synergized to no end, close quarter/choke combat, speed boost, healing (AOE and Burst) and lastly, discord orb and the damage capability of most of the tanks, that in certain cases is pretty much avoidable, since a lot go thorugh barriers or have mobility to circumvent them.
The thing is, Tank never got buff since start, only nerf, and before burst heal, Tank comp was not a thing even if back then they was much more powerful (old RH, DVA, for exemple)
And back then, Ult was loading way faster.
The 1st Tank comp (3 tank + ana + lucio + zen/mercy) was enable when Ana was release.
They nerf Ana, back to fast/dive comp’ (I’m not saying Dive is better, I’m just pointing fact)
Then, Moira come, another strong burst heal hit the game, moth meta follow with insane HoT healing and finaly brig with infinite armor + burst heal on 5sec CD (or more don’t remenber)
That why I said burst heal is a bad thing.
Oh, and we can add lucio boost rework who is now like a mini-aoe burst heal.
Also that just my point, but I don’t think I’m wrong.
Wish they just made this game 2/2/2 so that people dont over stack tanks and supports every 2n season.
Nerfing them will make me happy as well but i feel like they can avoid hard nerfs if this game was 2/2/2.
I dont disagree with the fact that burst healing is a problem, but there are many aspects to it. Moira´s burst healing is not the worst part of her, it is the huge aoe healing upkeep she has. Since it is spread over a multitude of seconds and can hit anyone within a genrous cone.
Also the fact of how much aoe healing we have gotten, brig as an addition made deathballs stronger. RH and Zarya has always been meta pretty much, whether it be comp or pro play. Additions to the game like the massively busted D.va DM has just made stacking tanks and more healers on top of RH and Zarya even more powerfull.
If you as a DPS are losing out to Zenyatta, Zarya or D.va you are bad at that hero… sorry. Or maybe they’re just very good? And it really isn’t damage you’re supposed to be doing, you have to go for kills.
Moira is perfectly fine.
Mercy is never going to get a buff, because DPS mains constantly harass blizzard any time a support is able to contribute to the match beyond nano-boosting them for POTG.
GOATS is not overpowered, it has counters that have been in the game for a decent while. The problem is that the pros refuse to play these heroes even to the point of losing a match. Pick Mei, pick Pharah, pick Orisa… it’s no coincidence that GOATS is composed entirely of heroes whose counters are in the bottom listings for pick rate.
Zen has a maximum sustained dps of ~239.2
Compare this to Tracer for example, her maximum sustained dps is ~223.3
And Soldier with a maximum sustained dps of 234.3 (actually a bit lower as the wiki doesn’t show the delay from when Helix is shot until you can use Primary again)
(These numbers are based on 100% crit @ highest firerate, with no fall off and reload taken into account. Feel free to double check the math and let me know if i screwed up)
If you talk about time to kill, then Zen is also doing pretty well with ~466ms.
Compared to Tracers ~500ms.
(I don’t have video of Soldiers TTK)
Outside of literal instakills, I’m not sure it’s too far fetched to say Zen is a big competitor to DPS heroes.
Only close to 90% play in OWL
To the point that the Korean team might not win this because they are cap’d on op low skill cap heroes. But ofc the pros and their coaches are not “countering” goats the same way you do in low rank. Silly bad pro players. Goats so easy to counter. To bad they don’t know that.
Zen has other things to be doing, though. Soldier doesn’t, he’s constantly looking to deal damage, whereas Zen has to heal, discord and manage his ult.
OWL is not representative of the actual game. If they really wanted to stop using GOATS they could easily do it, but they don’t. In fact they don’t even swap to counter it, they run losing mirror matches just so they can play it.
If something can be done in lower ranks it can be done in higher ranks, the only requirement is skill. There are no pros who’re competent with Pharah, for instance. These are the same people who can’t make Reaper work in the new patch, not exactly impressive. But hey, at least they have people like you to worship the ground they walk on whilst mindlessly repeating everything they tell you, even when it’s contrary to your own experience.
Goats is annoying, but it’s not meta. It can’t touch snipers.
I haven’t seen goats once in OWL or on my account in high masters. It’s basically not played. I actually had to read about it on kotaku and was wondering what the hell they’re talking about. people are complaining about nothing.
